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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA ! VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH ! Fellow Human Beings, when are you all going to realise that all humans are created the same, regardless of caste, creed, colour, sex or nationality. When we start spliting people into sterotypes of all of the above that is when problems and tensions arise. No human being belongs to any paticular caste. All human beings are created the same. The social issues highligted in West London Singh Ji's posts are rampant among the Sikh community in general not a paticular man made caste. Ask yourself this, how many so called Sikh weddings have you attended where the couple take the oath in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and then afterwards the family hire a hall and attend a party to celebrate the marridge, were meat and alcohol and other anti Gurmat practices take place. Why do these social problems exist within the Sikh community now a days, when Guru Sahib has told us to steer clear of such things? The answer is simple. We as individuls are too dependent on others telling us or preaching to us what Guru Sahib says. We do not ourselves bother to carry out our own Sehaj Paat with meanings to try and understand what Guru Sahib is saying and try and live our jeevans according to the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Now lets get back to the topic. Disco parties, meat and alcohol should be forbidden in all Gurudwaras. The anti Gurmat practices that are taking place in the Edinburgh Gurudwara should be brought to an end. FULL STOP. VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA ! VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH !

yea, reely nice posting and totally agree with you.. ppl can get stuck in sargun and not see past that. the nirgun saroop of guruji is the hardest form of guru to meditate on so sumtimes sargun is needed for the sutri! yea. nirgun, sargun and gursabad are the three forms of guru that P:10 sez. nand laal ji rehernama. guru is byaapak and antarjami, and is both nirgun and sargun at the same time.. aarti is of the ek jot. all, nirgun, sargun and gursabad, (and everyone else!) all rolled into 1. bhav khandana teri aarti.

Okay thank-you so much Alias. You've been very helpful. I guess its time to focus...:cool:

Shabad Guru has taken a form since the beginning of time(it's eternal). Shabad Guru never comes or goes. Today we have Shabad Guru as the form as Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. The ink the cover the ang are the form. Just like when Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj came to this earth, the form of Shabad Guru was the body of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj. The body can come or go the ink can come and go the ang can come and go, but the Shabad Guru stays in the permanent form, as the form of the formless. Those that are aware of this form don't need a form of the Shabad Guru to be with Sri Waheguru Ji Maharaj. This is how Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj is. He was the form of the formless Shabad Guru. He was already here, before that body of his came to this earth. The body is used as a means to teach the Shabad Guru to those that can't see, hear, feel, touch Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj in the form of the formless (humans). I know I am using Shabad Guru/ Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj/ Sri Waheguru Ji Maharaj interchangablly here, but my understanding/as am i told by Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj can't see any difference between them. Sri Waheguru ji is the form of the formless, Shabad Guru is the form of Sri Waheguru ji in vibration and then Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj is the form of Sri Waheguru ji also in vibration. Vibration, here is spoken, hearing, listening, writen to Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj. These different forms are means to an end. Say Gurbani(written, spoken, memorization) goes gupt, the Shabad Guru stands still as before when Gurbani did not go gupt, but to humans like you and me we see it as gone or never existed. Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj is that permanent state that never comes and goes (Shabad Guru). The Sants of this world are aware of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj/Shabad Guru/ Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj in that state. There minds are attuned to that state. When Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj(the body of his) came to this earth, what took place is, that Shabad Guru started to be sung through the body and now because of the body, people see Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj ji as that body only(one reason why many Gurmukhs say don't bow to the pictures). People completely focus on the body that gave us the Shabad Guru and differtiate between Sri Waheguru ji and Guru. Then you have the people that completely disregard the form of Shabad Guru and say those that do aarti of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj are fools, those that keep fans by Guru Sahib are fools in the summer months. Both sides don't understand sargun and nirgun. Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj does not get hot or cold, or see pleasure or pain. If he did Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji Maharaj would have fainted or screamed out in pain on the hot plate. That body was there to give us the message and the Gursikhs respected that body by waving the fans over Guru Sahib, they gave Guru Sahib many gifts to the body that never got cold or hot. The same form Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj is being covered, fans are placed there, aarti is done. Shabad Guru is the formless Sri Waheguru ji, who took for for our own benefits. Same goes for Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj.

How utterly disrespectful, they gave their lives for the cause which they may not have fully known about but they gave their livelehood. And all you can do is give you utter rubbish of an opinion on these forums with complete disrespect for SAINT SOLDIERS OF THE BOTH WORLD WARS. Let me ask do you always know what your doing and have fully known about it before hand ???? if you answer yes then your an even bigger THICKhead then i can EVEN begin to imagine!1

WJKK WJKF Do we know that the deal for India's independance was for her give the UK millions of men for the war?? Have we not woken up to this fact, so in the end it was for India as well as for the British. Harjeet is spot on I wouldn't it past them for their world order that they want, these farangees are so powerful they created Africa/ and are now making the middle east the next Africa. They create crashes, recsssions,depressions,and recoveries. But I must admit a truth and that is they learn from their mistakes very quickly and adapt and change.If they created the slave trade, they were the first also to bring in human rights law, not India or anyone else out there. We as Sikhs we should be just proud of our forefathers and that is it period!!! instead of bickering whether it was right or wrong for them to join the army. Cause and effect...learn and adapt to such theories in advance is their policy. Sikhroots- great sewa can always rely on you guys for your efforts.

This is what his Darshan Das has done to be **: Darshan Das was not punished for talking against the freedom movement; he was punished for the following reasons:  He called himself the true and last guru; he made mockery of the Sikh Gurus and the great Shaheeds of the Khalsa Panth. He referred to himself has Guru Nanak Dev Ji.  He sat higher than Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaaj, no satkhar (respect) was given to Guru Maharaj, and he distorted Gurbani and made people believe that he was the true savior.  He preached that Sikhs and Sikhi do not exist, and that Sikhs are a mixture of Hindus and Muslims , we should all be clean shaven and wear white turbans with white dhotis and we should all have a red tilak on our fore heads.  He destroyed hundreds of families in desperate need, with trickery and by using standard magic tricks and black magic. Families where broken up and women began to abandon their children to live with him and his bodyguards.  Bullying, intimidation, rape and black mail was used by him and his followers to extort money and stop people leaving. http://evilmen.net/i...=107&Itemid=155 Here is another link: http://news.panthic.org/articles/2044

^^ No one was even talking about committing violence!...however his father did deserve a *** ....and if he crosses the line he will get one too

First of all Darshan Dass was not a sikh. He was a Hindu who was supporting Govt establishment of India and justifying invasion on Golden temple in 1984. He was doing this after 1984 with a specific purpose in mind. Such people have liberty to preach their own religion and they should not interfere in others religion. They should learn to respect others beliefs. Then only they will be respected.