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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI Fateh!! I found this video on YouTube discussing the UK Sangat's concerns about Gurdwaras who allowing meat and alcohol on Gurdwara Estate "This report was shown on Sunrise TV (Litt on Sunday 5th Dec 2010) highlighting those UK Gurdwaras who are not adhering to Akal Takht Maryada and allowing meat and alcohol to be consumed on Gurdwara Property for the sole purpose of monetary gains. Hard hitting comments from Harmander Singh (Sikhs in England) and Gurmukh Singh (Sewa UK)"

Brief showreel of an innovative new website to help todays western Sikh youth learn about Sikhism and the Punjabi language and culture. Having taken 5 years to develop by one individual the site will be launched on a subscription basis at £5 per household per by month in early 2011. Post release future updates will include kirtan time, nursery rhymes, more games and interactive challenges, storytime and hopefully much more. We would love to hear thoughts and feedback from you all, including kids, parents and even potential investors/venture capatalists. Either leave your feedback/comments below or email us direct at info@learn-punjabi.co.uk. A Facebook group will also be launched soon to help you follow us. We hope you enjoy the video demo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC51ZL1q1dg

I just had to delete a whole page's worth of posts from this thread, the insults were disgusting. Please report any such posts rather than replying to them so that they can be deleted promptly. Sikhsangat does not tolerate any members attacking each other.

What I find surprising is just how it is possibly victimisation. Look at the facts. The first gurdwara to be requested to shut the hall and did so was Edinburgh's one - traditionally called "Bhatra". Grays was the same again. So if those two were "bhatra" (i hate these labels we use) then how can it possibly be an attack on these "Ramgarhia's" - perhaps someone could ask this on panth time! it is very confusing. Second, and more important point is the fact that the Gurdwaray that have these halls come up with "financial reasons" for not closing the hall...hmmm... now, if we take a look at the accounts of RST, which I've attached to this post, you'll see certain key pieces of info i'd like to highlight. 1. OBJECTIVES - page 4 The charity's objects are to provide a centre where the community can gather for worship, celebrate various festivals according to the Sikh culture and provide facilities for weddings, teaching Panjabi and music. There have been no changes in the charities objects or policies during the year. - Now, the terminology seems to be vague, perhaps purposefully so, but it does not hide the fact that it intends to celebrate according to the Sikh culture. Linked to this is the mention of facilities for weddings. Now if they've used the term "Sikh culture", NOT, "punjabi culture", this implies they need to abide by basic Sikh Rehat. Its not really that complicated - that is in their own words! 2. FUNDRAISING - page 4 Here is perhaps the main point of the beadbi gurdwarays arguments - that we need the money. Lets take a look at RST's own words, "The main fund raising activities remain the voluntary donations from members, the donations from religious functions and gatherings. During the year money raised from the congregation was pu- towards purchasing equipment for use in the Queen Elizabeth Hospital Birmingham." The main fund raising is NOT from the hall, but from sangat donations - Religious ones at that - not parties!! The committee/trustees also felt they had enough left over to kindly donate money to a worthy cause. Those struggling financially unfortunately dont have the means to do that... 3. FINANCIAL STATEMENT income from rental of hall - £39 000 (approx) income from sangat - £135 000 (approx) - thats almost £100k more from using the gurdwara as a religious place! temple and building (ie hall) running costs - £59 000. No mention of the actual breakdown of cost here -- but lets be generous and estimate a third of the cost is spent on the call - around £19 000 -£ 20 000. so, basically, this - 'financial goldmine' that the gurdwaray cant do without - how much did it make, net during the year? A measly £19 000 for the gurdwara! That's how much one's jeevan is worth these days then...£19 000. RST's own facts and figures - not anything from me, Satkaar, R4G or anybody else - they are basically stringing themselves up with their own words. RST Accounts.pdf

Is it me or is this becoming more and more of an issue in recent times? I wonder how this situation of people not being able to sit on the floor was dealt with back in the days or even nowadays in India. I haven't seen a Gurdwara in India that have cinema seats in the darbar hall!!! There will be some legit people who have problems sitting on the floor and there will be other who will act/think they have problems, but they are only fooling themselves!

Watch how "Panthic" RST committee will portray themselves on this weeks Panth Time which incidently will be recorded on Friday (10 December 2010) in the very hall (Maharaja Jassa Singh Ramgharia Hall) that lets alcohol, meat etc to be served. Enu Khendhay Hypocrisy!!!

The only hypocrites are those who post negativity about thier sikh brothers Ramgarhia on this forum and in general. This matter is going beyond a joke in that Ramgarhias are being targetted. Like it or not all the other so called castes are hypocrites, Tie a turban for the day of thier wedding, get married in front of the Guru Granth Sahib then 30 minutes later shave thier heade for a sharaab and meat party. Even all the women drink, have short hair, and i suppose they are all Ramgarhias. <Mod Cut, no insulting other members> and face it that Ramgarhia Sikh Temple is a prestigeous Gurdwara. Ashame those of you making negative comments dont follow the Sikh Rehat Maryada yourselves. Just read it and digest before criticising others. Maybe you should know that such people who comment like this are responible for ripping the Sikh Community apart..

The placement of chairs in Darbar Sahib gives way for manmat people to sit on chairs and disrepect Guru Sahib. Then if the person is approached and questioned, why doesn't he sit on the ground like rest of the sangat. He/she will disregard the person and say i can't, when it's completely visible the person can. This would cause a conflict and escalate into problems. So to avoid dilemmnas like this, the Gurdwaras should not put any chairs in Darbar Sahib. What they should do is put wheelchairs in the back, out of Darbar Sahib and when an old person who is unable to sit on the ground can take one and wheel it in. He/she can take a spot against one of the walls, where he/she is not directly infront of the other sangat. Fat people complain all the time that they can't sit on the ground. Should they be allowed to sit on the chairs, due to their own selfish behavior of stuffing their faces. What about those that will bring up excuses of I got a bad knee. I can't sit for to long on the ground. I got a bad hip, I got a bad ankle, I got etc, etc. The excuses are not going to end. The kirtan jatha. Are those that sitting on chairs, educating the sangat about Sikhi? This is a long held tradition that the person that is telling you a about Gurmat or giving you wisdom, sits higher than the learner. It's about giving respect and instilling values.

We had the money, the resources to enable them instead we worked hard towards disabling them. Once Punjabi’s were known for working hard, living life of dignity and loving their families but that is no longer the case. Today Punjab is riddled with huge unemployment rates, crippling drug problems and the country’s highest girl feticides rate. As much as we like to blame the Indian government for all the issues Punjab is facing, I can’t help but feel we are also responsible. Did we lay the foundation and the Indian Government take advantage of the situation? Are we somehow responsible for the unemployment, drug problems and the loss of love between families? Did we disable our families from wanting to work by sending them money, with no strings attached? When NRI’s first began earning in other countries, their first concern was sending money home. Originally the money was used to pay off loans occurred over the years and the loans taken out to get out of the country. But once the loans were paid off, NRIs did not shift focus onto fixing up their own living conditions. They kept sending money back home to buy more land, to build a bigger house, to buy a car and etc. The family back home got use to receiving the luxuries without having to earn them. Now the first generation knew the struggle it took to receive those luxuries and was appreciative but the second generation that never had to struggle for anything in life, felt it was their birth right. All of sudden almost all jobs felt unfit for those that were used to getting everything without working. NRIs disabled our youth when it comes to working and caused the beginning of Punjab’s unemployment problems. If unemployment was not bad enough, it brought a drug problem with it. The youth had no desire to work but had a desire to prove themselves cooler than all their friends. So when they were introduced to drugs, they could afford it using money sent by NRIs but they had no reason not to try them. It became a competition how could find the better drugs, do the better drugs, get the better high between the rich and the spoiled. While the rich competed, the poor looked for outlet for their pain. The pain that comes from knowing that no matter how hard I work, someone will have better stuff then me without even trying. Their pain found the outlet in drugs they could afford and sometimes drugs they couldn’t afford. The addiction got so out of hand, families began cutting their kids off and the youth became desperate. Desperate youth began committing first petty crimes and then major crimes to get their hands on the drugs without which they could no longer imagine their lives. Families began to fall apart because they did not know how to cope with the wide spread drug epidemic. On one hand their families falling apart on the other NRIs visiting and having to cater to them to keep them happy, so they would keep giving the money that they could no longer operate without. The stress created tremendous amount of tension that began ripping families apart. Everyone knew there were problems but no one said a word. The NRIs could not see how the families back home could be so upset, since they gave them so much; to them the families were just ungrateful. The families back home didn’t know how to tell their NRI family members their true struggles. Struggles that involved spending more than the earned and then getting into debt because they were too dependent on money being sent home by NRIs. About the youth going in the wrong path and people not understanding, blaming them, for everything and still not being able to help their children. All these problems but not being able to talk about it, find a solution because we are all created in this fake perfect world that was made used NRI money. We created the problems that drove our families apart. And then the Indian government took advantage of the situation, to worsen the condition of Punjab. To break it because it is the home of the Sikhs and the Indian Government has never liked Sikhs. But we are strong people, Punjabis don’t get defeated; we fight. That fight in us, gives us the strength to admit that the NRI’s money caused as much damage as it did good. It gives us the strength to try and fix our mistakes. We can still send money home but we have to make sure it is spent to strength our families, not break them from inside out. The money needs to be spent creating jobs, fighting drugs and saving our daughters. Our time needs to be spent not fighting but connecting with Guru Granth Sahib Ji, so there will never be a need to fight anymore and we can finally have peace. So, let’s stop focusing on the Indian government; what they did to create the problem and what they didn’t do to solve it. Let’s focus on us; what we did and what we can do to solve our own problems. Let’s stop waiting till it is too late. http://www.sikhsangat.org/2010/12/disabling-punjab-nris-to-blame/