Aparadhee

see we dont really no that, kala could be same or even greater. that would depend on avastha of panj. ask those who have taken amrit where bibi has been in panj, only they know the kala of the amrit on the day. khalsa mero roop hai khas = khalsa irrespective of gender. just wanted to clear that up. bhul chuk maaf

gurbani is ultimate authority and we should seak answers from guru sahib before anywhere else. this is not a question of mahapurkhs as we know there have been many chardi kala mahapurkhs in the past that have disagreed on certain issues. we should not believe something jsut because we are affiliated to a certain group or sant but we should delve deeper in to gurbani to find the answer, however this can sometimes be difficult. but if our views are not in line with gurbani then somethings wrong. i am not making a case for or against bibia in panj, its just sometimes we need perspective on these issues. face it there will always be people out there that even if you give them all the proof in the world they will still believe what their sant says. i am in the same boat but i think we need to move away from such mentality. only guru and god are perfect. ps nindia of a great sant sipahi like baba jarnail singh ji is not acceptable!!!

alot of things happen at hazoor sahib that frankly just cant be defended, though someone will always come up with a pathetic excuse to carry on with this manmat.

amazing accounts from lives of gurmukhs, a real eye opener to why we are all here

the gurbani tukh posted by veer tarunjeet singh have answered the question posted initially. when the question has been answered by maharaj whats the point in carrying on with childish arguements. cant we listen to guru ji when they tell us something, or maybe people are looking for excuses to do manmat. those who are serious about doing naam kamaaee (not me) will know what is good for them and what isnt. ps opinions are manmat because its OUR man di mat. but when we use gurbani as veer ji has done then its guru's mat, and know one is in a position to challenge maharaj. bhul chuk maaf

some good posts, meaning of bani comes through abhyaas but maharaj has given us gurbani viakaran to help us understnd true meaning of bani and so it cannot be ignored, and if a arth is suggested which contradicts viakaran then viakaran should have authority imho. we shud not make assumptions of sant gurbachan singhs ability to interpret bani becus these mahapursh hve mre understnding then we can eva have, but like many of the posts above have stated the current modern day santhiya of taksal is in contradiction to what earlier mahapursh taught. there are alot of educated arguements (like the ones stated in this thread) that need to be answered, until then it would be reckless to think taksal has a monoply on maharajs santhiya. bhul chuk maaf

if i distorted true meaning of gurbani then maharaj maaf karn and kirpa karn to bless us all with giaan of bani. you are correct that gurbani applies to all, and maharaj teaches us all a lesson. but practices of brahmins is not comparable to bibek. from the outset it may look like they are the same, and if we believe so then fair enough we are entitled to our opinions, but this doesnt show a true understanding of the rehit. like mentioned before it is not physical impurity we are protecting ourselves from as maharaj explains this very clearly that impurity exists everywhere. no where has anyone mentioned that spiritual wisdom comes from bibek, you again are correct that this can only come from naam. and this naam is exactly what this rehit revolves around. if anything this shabad supports concept of bibek, as impurity lies everywhere and only naam can cleanse our surroundings and cleanse our mind. this is the basic concept behind bibek, naam makes food in to amrit, eating this food acts as a catalyst to your naam abhyaas. maharaj condemns that which is not good for our kamaee, bibek if kept properly can accelerate ones kamaee. but we must keep this rehit in perspective and not make it the centre of our jeevan, only naam should be centre of our jeevan. as correctly stated by yourself now thats just my opinion. >>>>> "But a lot of people will still carry on with 'bibek' because they value their jatha's maryada more than Guru Granth Sahib Ji. They may bow before Guru Granth Sahib, but they do not follow Guru Ji's teachings." >>>>>> we should not insult countless gurmukhs from across the panth who have kept this rehit by saying they do not understnd or follow bachan of guru granth sahib ji, again everyones understanding of bani is going to be different but to say they dont follow guru jis teachings is a bold accusation to make, when many of these gurmukhs had/have an avastha that we can only dream of. bhull chuk maaf

a veer has explained this nicely on another forum: "furthermore, food bibek is nothing like sootak. sootak, as a concept, revolves around the idea that everyone and everything apart from a a brahmin is lower than a brahmin and therefore liable to defile a brahmin's godliness. therefore suchum is of paramount importance. maharaaj jee criticises them saying that without truth, they are impure, everything they do is impure and everything they eat is impure. maharaaj jee also explaines how everything they come into contact with, despite their suchum-inspired efforts, is techinically impure...they as truluy impure people actually make others and other things impure due to their insipid and high-handed nature. according to gurmat, impurity/impure refers to that which is not in accordance with vaheguroo's hukam...it is only living within hukam that one becomes pure. therefore, the khalsa will only take food and keep strong sangat with those individuals who live within hukam i.e. chak a(n)mrit, make sincere efforts to jap naam, keep all of dasmesh pita jee's compulsory rehit, give dasvandh, do seva etc. only that food is 'pure', is truly 'khalis' (pure) and for consumption by the 'khalsa' (the pure), which has been prepared by maharaaj jee's rehitvaan khalsa, who jap naam/recite gurbaanee breath by breath. because this food has been prepared within the hukam of vaheguroo, it is blessed with the shaktee of vaheguroo's nazar, of their grace...consuming such sanctified food positively effects those who consume it. it literally has the energy to encourage those who eat it to adopt the hukams of vaheguroo." >>>>> bibek is not about physical purity but mind's purity, and this rehit totally revolves around naam abhyaas, it is a useless practice without doing naam abhyaas over the food. therefore considering this it doesnt compare to the pakhand of the brahmins. guru ji is talking about only true purity being obtained from naam and this is exactly what the rehit is about. also if we understand this shabad how you want us to understand it, then guru nanak dev ji was wrong for not accepting food from malik bhago. guru ji does not contradict himself! >>>>> "But a lot of people will still carry on with 'bibek' because they value their jatha's maryada more than Guru Granth Sahib Ji." >>>>> what jatha? like mentioned earlier many jathas/gursikhs have preserved the basic rehit, it is not the invention of a single group, bhull chuk maaf

alot of people keep bibek and say it done nothing for them and dismiss this rehit of guru sahibs. once we reach an avastha we will surely see the affect on our kamaee of eating food from non amritdharis. there are levels of bibek. eating from someone that isnt a a.dhari but has a honest job and refrains from the 4 bujjer kurehits is surely better than eating from a smoker etc. but ultimately we cannot deny that eating food from a a.dhari who japs naam and keeps rehit will have a gd effect on our mind also. amrit is made in sarbloh by 5 rehitvaan abhyaasi gursikhs while reciting bani. surely food made in the same way is also close to amrit? do we not want to eat amrit everyday? or do we deny the very power that makes amrit in the first place, shall we now give panja di seva and degh di seva to non amritdharis? becus obviously the person behind making the amrit/degh or langar doesnt matter right? we have to accept that certain sevas are only for a.dharis and at that rehitvaan a.dharis, it may seem cruel or like discrimination to some but this is guru jis maryada. bibek rehit has been preserved in the panth by many jathas including nihungs, taksal, akj etc. this is perhaps one of the things that they all agree on in principle.

"plz dont cause controversy on this thread, if you have any issues, pm me or contact the website" <<<<<<<<<< k_z funny how you ask for no one to cause controversy yet you use this thread while advertising a programme to spread your own views publically which you know may be seen as controversial by other members. all of your posts on this thread are centred around baba jarnail singh ji being in chardi kala etc etc, why did you start this thread? to advertise the programme or just to spread your views on this controversial topic? its pretty clear that not much advertising is going on. "With the 3rd barsi of Sant Gyani Baba Thakur Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale coming up next month the enviable questions about Baba Ji’s eternal bachan begin to pop up everywhere from Gurudwaras to Internet forums." <<<< yh and this time it looks like you "pro sant ji chardi kala" jatha have made sure this debate continues by provoking it yourselves! seriously you guys got nothing better to do? you start the debate, then when the other side gives their views (which you insist shouldnt be posted publicly but through pm) you accuse them of being slanderers if baba thakur singh was here today i dont think he would be very happy with the way you act k_z, from alot of your posts you seem to be a trouble maker on this forum and others, i think alot of other members would agree aswel.

hair should only get unhealthy if you use shampoo too much, if you use shampoo once a week and just use water for the other days your hair will be fine. importnt to use good quality oil aswell. i dont think rom only refers to body hair and not hair on head. cutting the hair on your head and on your body is an equal bujjer kurehit. kesh=rom all people i have done sangat with do keshi ishnaan at a.vela and they come from many jathas, so i think its generally an accepted rehit given at most amrit sanchars.

All such conduct during war is based on morals and honour and people who suggest that we should also sleep with people’s wives shame on you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tec9 u failed to see the sarcasm in the first post, pls answer the question: is it ok to commit adultery in times of war to gain an advantage over your opponent? you are saying its ok to commit other bujjer kurehits so why hold back? why not commit all 4? notice i aint promoting this behaviour but with your direction of thinking whos to stop anyone from justifying such disgusting acts. "We are a warrior race and our conduct and lives are conducted as such!" what makes the khalsa different to other warrior races? there have been many great warrior races why are we different khalsa ji? because we are supposed to have naam and rehit on our side right? but the thing is if we abondon it then we aint much different to all the other warrior races! as for conduct of shaheed singhs, they gave shaheedi and good on them, but if a singh did make a mistake then we shouldnt be afraid to admit it either, we will leave the rest to maharaj. ultimately we should stick by our rehit and morals. tarunjeet singhs post is a eye opener!

the amount of active drug that gets in to the blood stream via oral route from 5 pathe is probably very low, i doubt it will provide relief from a battle wound, i could be wrong, i have seen nihungs at hazoor sahib fresh from their daily dose of shaheedi degh, they were completely out of it, more like some addict high on heroin, i wouldnt trust hazoor sahib for upholding ancient traditions, we all know what the maryada is like there. whatever shaheed singhs like jinda n sukha done is their business and maharajs, personally i dont knw about these missions but dont think just because a shaheed singh done something, it makes it ok, only maharaj is perfect, anyone else can make mistakes. havent you kids learnt from stories of bhai taru singh? i guess not cos now you got people on this forum thinking of excuses to cut hair and break rehit. well if its war time and we can make exceptions, then why dont you singhs go and sleep with the enemy's wives and get vital information that will help our cause, you want to justify doing 2 bujjer kurehits why not commit adultery while your at it? i'm sure someone here will find an excuse to do that aswel in time. the likes of bhai taru singh should be our role models, i suppose now someone will make a story up defaming these singhs by suggesting they were high on non-prescription drugs at the time...

if you have a problem with these practices vampire then address everyone explaining your logic rather than making a childish post which is just trying to cause friction.

i think tis wrong to jump to conclusions without getting proper bio tests done, we dont want to scare penji suggesting she has arthritis

Because for one thing, I don't think the traditional places actually give amrit to women and men in the same bata, but then could be wrong again? >>>>>>>>>>>>>. are you implying that amrit should be given seperately to each gender?

sarbloh is iron, theory is amrit is made in a iron bowl while gursikhs are doing gurbani jap and so if we mke food in iron and do naam/gurbani jap then our food becomes pavitar like amrit. this can only have gd effect on mind compared to food made by kurehitis who may smoke, cut hair, etc

agree with matheen, maryada for amrit sanchar is also not written, it is passed down from generation to generation doesnt mean its not valid.

he was an atheist but after meeting bhai sahib bhai randhir singh in i think lahore jail, he realised his mistakes and had renewed faith in sikhi. in photos taken nearing his final days you can see he has uncut hair and a joora. ofcourse indian government doesnt want to admit that he died a sikh which is why in the films he gets fansi as a monah and potrayed as a atheist. the whole account and conversation is written in bhai sahib randhir singhs autobiography

as far as das knows gurmat will be followed and choola will not be given to anyone in the sangat like seen at other places. only those who are partaking in seva of the amritsanchar and those taking amrit will be bestowed with this blessing.

sunsingh i think you are very quick to make assumptions about others views. infact das believes dasam granth to be gurbani. das believes it to be a important part of ones jeevan. back to the point chani 111 said: "what i dont understan is that akj allways dear to question guru granth sahib jee maharaj on raag mala,why are they defending shiri dasam granth.Firstly it does not make sence and secondly if they are playing polotics with shiri dasam granth. " so akj dare to question guru granth sahib on ragmala and becus they do this, them defending dasam granth makes it politics. if this constitutes akj having double standards then whole panth has double standards as once the whole panth "dared to question" guru ji over bani such as ratanmala etc. if you want this mentality then panth should not have dared to question the authenticity of these bania. ragmala shud not be braught in to this, as thats a totally different ongoing debate which even akal takht cannot firmly give answer to. the whole intention of poster was to undermine repututation of akj by playing on peoples views regarding ragmala. again this thread is useless, akj singhs were one of the first alongside gursikhs from other jathas to condemn the slanderers, that speaks for itself. vaheguroo

once in sikh history kachi bani found its way in to guru granth sahib ji maharaj. this was not rachna of guru saheb and panth agreed to exclude it. ratanmala and some other peices were the kachi bani excluded from maharaj's saroop. question remains: so has rest of panth got double standards, for excluding this bani in the past and now having pro dasam granth stand?

to suggest akj has double standards is nonsense. if you want to imply that then im afraid the whole panth including taksal and deras have double standards. because we seem to forget that the whole panth has agreed in the past that certain parts of guru granth sahib are not bani. i.e ratan mala etc. so to say one jatha has double standards for not believing in a part of guru granth sahib and then accepting dasam bani is ignorant to the fact that all jathas in the past have excluded parts of guru granth sahib as being kachi bani. so now would you say taksal or nanaksar has double standards for believing in dasam granth but in the past rejecting ratanmala and various other kachi bani? end these nonsense threads, when a jatha goes against your views you attack it, but when that jatha has a view in line with yours you still try find something to attack it. and then we talk about ekta hmmmm

jy ko gur qy vymuKu hovY ibnu siqgur mukiq n pwvY ] jae ko gur thae vaemukh hovai bin sathigur mukath n paavai || pwvY mukiq n hor QY koeI puChu ibbykIAw jwey ] He shall not find liberation anywhere else either; go and ask the wise ones about this. anaek joonee bharam aavai vin sathigur mukath n paaeae || iPir mukiq pwey lwig crxI siqgurU sbdu suxwey ] But liberation is attained, when one is attached to the feet of the True Guru, chanting the Word of the Shabad. khY nwnku vIcwir dyKhu ivxu siqgur mukiq n pwey ]22] Says Nanak, contemplate this and see, that without the True Guru, there is no liberation. ||22||

i came acros a tuk once, cant remember now, maybe someone can post it. but basically it was saying that we should wear those clothes that dont bring 5 bikaars in to the mind and eat that food that doesnt produce these bikaars. bana is very important, but then we should not judge others who dont wear it. there are many people out there who dnt wear bana but are very abhyaasi and put alot of bana dharis to shame, but that does not mean we should not wear bana. wear bana and go to maharajs darbar and you will feel the difference, personally i do not feel comfortable when i have to wear western clothing, i find myself looking in the mirror alot more admiring myself lol. but obviously in this western world sometimes it has to be done for work purposes, ultimately its a personal choice and no one can force others to wear it. but i do think modest clothing is essential, i have seen bibia walk around with dastar on and they are wearing unsuitable clothes and the singhs are just as bad! lol. it just doesnt look right. our roop is complete with gurmukhi bana and it is amazing parchar to others if we do keep this rehit. today we are wearing western clothes, what happens tomorow? do we swap our dastar for a patka? then maybe a chuni? or for singhs perhaps a cap? to preserve our identity at the least it is essential to not let our roop be diluted. however there are many pakhandis who wear bana and do dreadful things and are disgracing maharajs bana, but that shouldnt be an excuse for us not to wear bana with pride. many elders wear dastar and drink etc does that mean we should not follow maharajs rehit and wear dastar? when the british went to india they didnt start wearing kurteh and indian clothing, they wore their uniform all throughout the raj. so why have we started wearing their clothes when we came to their countries. to destroy a culture the first thing you attack is the language they speak and the clothes they wear. it sounds simple but is very effective. even psychologists such as zimbardo have done studies of clothing/roles and effect on aggression and conformity. they found we conform to the roles we are set and the clothes we wear are very important in this conformity. wherever we go the world wants us to conform to it's ideals, it wants us to wear tight jeans that show off our body, it wants us to show abit of skin, it wants us to eat what they are eating, it wants us to behave how they are behaving. it wants us to speak how they are speaking. have we ever asked ourselves what maharajs ideals are? changing our language and clothing is a vital step in our culture/identity being diluted. so we should try harder to not let this occur, but more and more youngsters are wearing bana now and that can only be a good thing, but those who do wear bana please dont forget the responsibility that comes along with it. you cannot afford to do anything wrong! people will not see the fault in the person, they will generalise your actions to all those gursikhs who wear bana and that is not good parchar. so lead by example, wear bana and jap naam and make a good jeevan, so that when people see you they will be motivated to jap naam aswell. bhull chuk maaf guroo