GurSa Singh

According to Harbans Singh of your committee, Avtar Singh did not to ardas in front of GuruJi anyway. As per Harbans Singh's comments 'the committee did not feel the need to do an Ardas for forgiveness.' The Granthis were honest in admitting that they have been to Hotels and Banqueting Halls before via Brent Sikh Centre, Granthi Kashmira Singh is taken in all cases. This is not a one off. Anotherpanthsewak, please discuss with your Superiors at the Sikh Centre, the need to close this issue by carrying out an Ardas for forgiveness and sign the declaration in the presence of the naujawaan. We are all part of the same Sikh sangat, this effects all of us, not just the regular sangat of BSC. Would Hoonjan have 'allegedly' apologised if Singhs and Singhnees hadn't kicked a fuss about the beadbi? He wou ld have been happy to carry on. All he and you were worried about was the mud that will now be attached to Hoonjans name. Well he deserves everything that he gets. This is not about ahankar this is about justice. As sewadars of the Guru Khalsa Panth we have the right to seek justice.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! As far as I know Jagdeesh Singh is an active Singh in the Slough area and is part of the SCAN group (not sure what SCAN stands for). He is also quite active in community issues and is well know in Slough. I would be surprised if he's not being assited by any Sikh groups.

There were kids there with us, some as young as 1 years old. Singhs and Singhnees of all ages. We came with the Khalsa spirit. We sat in front of our GuruJi and recited Chaupai Sahib. We stood up for the Khalsa....And they brand us miltants......... The layout of Brent Sikh Centre was shocking. I have never been to any UK Gurdwara that is so full of beadbi. The mona guy smoking outside the doorway was just the worst. A langar hall cum banqueting hall, where sangat walked around with shoes, without their head covered, sat on dinning tables being served so-called langar by waiters. And then the committee guy tells us that they have no control over GuruJi's saroop outside the Gurdwara. Anyone can 'hire Guruji' for the day and do what they please!!!! If this is not a Gurdwara but a punjabi centre (as the committee secretary claimed) then they must remove the Nishan Sahib, not have Guruji's Parkash, remove themselves from the UK Gurdwara directory and remove the Langar Hall sign above the entrance to the banqueting hall.

The problem is that today in the UK our community is so weak, that these soft approaches would work. My own cousin converted to Islam due to finding a new circle of friends in Uni. A Punjabi Mona Guy who I grew up with, became a Christian from hanging around with a Church group. These are the only 2 scenarios I know of, but still it highlights how your sangat can influence you.

http://forums.waheguroo.com/index.ppa?act=...orthampton&st=0 When the beadbi was taking place at Northampton Singh Sabha Gurdwara (see link above) the collective stand of the Naujawaans along with the responsive committee successfully resolved the situation in a short time frame. Looking back I now have a lot of respect for Amarjit Singh Atwal - President of Northampton Gurdwara - as he openly accepted his mistake on this forum (remember he logged in as Amarjit Atwal) and was willing to resolve it in a public meeting in front of Guruji, where 50 Khalsa Naujawan and the committee were present. The Naujawan recieved a warm reception from the Northmpton committee in the darbar sahib. Benti Chaupai da Path was done by the whole sangat and the meeting commenced in a constructive manner. The issues were resolved in front of Guruji and a strong relationship was created between the Youth and the experienced committee. "R Kaur", why do you think this cannot happen again?

Oh Come on! Why do people assume when GurSikhs take a stand there will be violence. This is a joke and undermines the concept of the Khalsa. R Kaur Ji. What are you trying to justify? You are either Avtar Singhs advocate or pardaan of another Gurdwara that carrys out these activities. How blantantly obvious can this be. All the hukumnama does is highlight an 'obvious beadbi'. With or without a Hukumnama this will be always be wrong.

Satvinder S Sarl and family is the guy who lives in Harrow, Middx who's been providing freelance Granthi and Keertan Services to families who want Anand Karaj's in Hotels and other places. His father used to be a Giani at the Gurdwara Sahib Mangat Hall in the early 1980s (back in the day when they did real GurSikh parchar). The Sikh network in the West London Area reponsible for carrying out Anand Karajs in Hotels, Banqueting Halls etc involves: Tarlochan Grewal (President of Guru Granth Gurdwara, Mangat Hall, Southall), Avtar Singh (President of Brent Sikh Centre, Kingsbury), Satvinder Sarl & Family (Keertan Services), Granthis from either Mangat Hall or Brent Sikh Centre. Various Banqueting Halls, Marriage Bureaus and Wedding Planners such as Vikrams Occassions Palace, Laguna Banqueting Palace, Madhu's Brilliant, Clay Ovenhave direct links to the above network and are able to arrange Guru Granth SahibJi's Saroop to be taken to their premises via the above people. They even advertise openly that they are able to hire Sikh Priests should you wish to conduct a marriage ceremony on their premises. Basically if we target this network, we will be able to eliminate the bulk of the beadbi that is taking place in West London regarding GuruJi's Saroop.

Saw this posting on tapoban. http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.ppa?f=1...i=18243&t=18243 Author: Heston Singh Date: 09-22-04 07:47 With just over 1 week to go before the wedding I very much doubt the family will back out. They will say the usual stuff, 'we know it is wrong but what can we do, it's too late etc etc'. I have tried in the past to stop Guru Granth Sahib Ji from being taken into a hall, when close family friends carried out this act of sacrilage. I knew at least 2 months in advance and explained to them what they were doing was one of the biggest acts of sacrilages against the Sikh religion. No one listened to me including my own family and the wedding went ahead in the Clay Oven. The bar was temporary closed but you could see the bottles of alcohol through the shutters just behind Manji Sahib, the waiters were walking in and out with their shoes and heads uncovered. You could smell the chicken and lamb being cooked, and the worst was that Guru Granth Sahib Ji had not even left the premises and their were people drinking pints of beer. I always regret not being able to do anything and feeling so helpless. I did not know any Singhs who were willing to take the stand with me. The family will still go ahead with it and the only way of making a statement is to physically stop the wedding happening on the day. A standard needs to be set, this act of baydbi should not be committed. Look at it this way, the Muslims would not stand for this kind of anti-religious act taking place in their faith, why do we!!!

Just rang up the hotel and said they will be adversary to an act of sacrilage against the Sikh Faith. I told them about our Hukumnama and the offence that would be caused. They said that they cannot do anything as they have a confirmed booking (which is the answer I expected). They said to contact the family involved. If we all keep calling the hotel they will feedback to the family. 020-8505 9966

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! The jatha that were responsible for doing Keertan at Vikram's Palace were Tarolchan Grewal and his group. Tarlochan Grewal is the President of Gurdwara Guru Sahib, Mangat Hall, Southall and son-in-law of Dr Mangat. On 22nd August Gurdwara Guru Sahib, Mangat Hall, Southall were responsible for taking Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Saroop to C&L Banqueting Hall, Northolt, Middx. During this wedding some of the Sangat apparently sat on dinning tables around Guru Granth Sahib Ji while the Anand Karaj was taking place in the centre of the C&L hall. There's definetly a network emerging!!! Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Banqueting Halls like Vikrams Occasions palace need to informed about the Hukumanama and we must pressure them to change their policies. The fact that they openly state on their web-site that they can hire Gianis like a Dj is pathetic. http://www.vikramsoccasionspalace.com/services.html We should also start calling/e-mailing up Vikram Occasions Palace and express our disgust at their expoloitation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Vikram's Occasions Palace 15 - 23 Church Street Slough, Berkshire SL1 1PL Telephone : +44 (0) 1784 433 221 Telephone : +44 (0) 1753 570 997 Mobile : +44 (0) 7900 278 456 E-mail : info@vikramsoccasionspalace.com We need to make sure does happen again!!!! Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I know that the Campaign guys have been in contact with the family and have offered them Gurdwara Singh Sabha Barking and Khalsa College Chigwell as alternatives - they have even offered to pay for the Gurdwara Bookings. Both these Gurdwara Sahibs are free on the day. The family have still not got back to them. No-one knows who is allowing Guruji Saroop to go to the hotel, it's definetly not any of the local Gurdwaras as they have all been approached. We need to know who is allowing it to happen. More than likely some local Granthi or another Gurdwara outside the area. Please start asking around or supply names of any local 'free-lance' Granthis. We need to approach all the local Granthis'. Finally of all else fails, we have no option but to physically stop the wedding happening on the day!! We are in our right to do this.

Well said Khalsaji. Considering our presence in the UK over the last 50 years, we should be a lot further than we actually are at this point. Watching a mainstream documentary made by the BBC just put's it into perspective. I too felt it was a wasted opportunity to really get some real good exposure. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

The guy was Jevan Deol, the historian who has been advising the British Library. I personally thought his comments about Sikhi were the worst on the show.

Nagar Kirtan to celebrate 4th Centenary of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on 5th September 2004. 11.30am start from Gurdwara Singh Sabha, Barking, East London. Nagar Kirtan will go through Ilford Lane to Seven Kings High Road past Gurdwara Karamsar, ending at Gurdwara Singh Sabha, Goodmayes at 3pm (approx). Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

The BBC documentary 'SIKHS IN THE CITY', which was broadcast last night, interviewed Jevan Deol. He blantly said that there are NO PROCEDURES in place for the correct treatment of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Saroops the British Library currently have in their possesion.

MP for Ilford South Mike Gapes has also written to the British Library on behalf of the Ilford Sikh Community. We have just found out from Graham Shaw that the the British Library has 53 GurMukhi Scriptures and 17 Guru Granth Sahib Ji Saroops in their storage vaults. This is a much bigger issue than we orginally anticipated!!

Nagar Kirtan to celebrate 4th Centenary of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on 5th September 2004. 11.30am start from Gurdwara Singh Sabha, Barking, East London. Nagar Kirtan will go through Ilford Lane to Seven Kings High Road past Gurdwara Karamsar, ending at Gurdwara Singh Sabha, Goodmayes at 3pm (approx). Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Organising a vigil or protest is not too difficult. We just need to inform the police in advance. To do it outside the Indian Embassy is realtively straight forward, we just need to pick a day. The rest is up to us to bring down, like banners, sound system, literature, coaches etc. What we need to think about is do we have more impact outside the Indian Embassy or maybe somewhere more public like Trafalgar Square or Downing Street. Also, how easy is it to gather on Trafalgar Square or Downing Street without it being classified as illegal.

Thanks MS514. This is really helpful. We might need to see how it works in the UK, but thanks for pushing us in the right direction. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Please PM each other on these issues or start a new thread. We should keep this thread clear for suggestions for remembrance of the murdered Sikhs of November 1984. Thanks

It's funny, but when we were little my parents got involved in this sect for a bit. I can't remember much about them but when we went down to the dera, Darshan Das was a mona sometimes and sometimes had a pug on. There was a lot of people there, like hundreds. But I can't remember anything more except the rumours about him having a big female following. We have a few relatives who are still part of this cult, but the numbers died down big time after his death. I think there was some kind of split in the cult, where some saw his son as his sucessor and some saw someone else as his successor. They are still slightly active in B'ham and Edmonton, London and as far as I know they don't drink or eat meat and wear red tilaks on their heads with red pugs. The men are usually keshdharis and therefore look like Singhs.

I think the blood donation and bone marrow donation is a great idea. This sewa can be done by the global sangat anywhere. We should co-ordinate this as a global sangat to be done during the same weekend. I personally think we should also do a vigil outside the Indian Embassies. I know we've had a few this year, but don't forget the pro-congress will be commemorating 20 years of the so-called 'Martyrdom' of Indira Gandhi. We need to be there to remind the world of what really happened otherwise this will overshadow the death of thousands of Sikhs. Maybe sit down and do Chaupai Sahib Da Path and Naam Simran. Get some banners made and also have a P.A. system set up. Print flyers etc. Above all turn up in massive numbers. What does the sangat think? Maybe this is already being organised, does anyone know?

Nagar Kirtan to celebrate 4th Centenary of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on 5th September 2004. 11.30am start from Gurdwara Singh Sabha, Barking, East London. Nagar Kirtan will go through Ilford Lane to Seven Kings High Road past Gurdwara Karamsar, ending at Gurdwara Singh Sabha, Goodmayes at 3pm (approx). Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

This is a joke, when was the British Library given the authority to make judements about how Sikhs should respect GurBani. And why was a fuss not kicked up in 1994 and 1999 when the Dasam Granth Jee was allowed to be displayed in the cabinets. Regardless of our 'weak' leaders allowing this to happen in the past, we shouldn't allow it to happen anymore. This SHOULD NOT be an argument about the authenticity or validity of Sri Dasam Granth Ji. At the end of the day, GurBani is GurBani. Sikhs give GurBani the highest respect, we don't ever open a Gutka without having our head covered or without removing our shoes. At the bare minimum, this is the respect we give Gurbani. The Sri Dasam Granth Ji on display is open, where visitors and staff are walking around without heads covered, with their shoes as if in an art exhibition. Would we allow someone to do that in our Gurdwara or in our own house. The ball's in you court Sangatji. You can voice your outrage to them or you can ignore it just let it keep happening every few years. If all else fails, then it's time to turn up at the library to peacefully protest. We take stands against Islamic Extremists, Gurdwara Commitees therefore we have the right to take a stand against the British Library. This is Beadbi.