caveman

Thank you for your reply T_Singh. Could you please enlighten me tell me which Historical text prior to gyani gian singh's text which is the only text before 1880's which mentions gatka. I never believed gatka was a sikh martial art, not being offensive but its not even a martial art(just my opinion). The term 'Gatka' is derived from the Persian name for sword-like training stick known as 'Khutka' that was introduced into India during the 17th century. (quote taken from Shastar Vidiya website. So like I said how do these video's which are very similar to gatka fit in with the theory that guru hargobind gave sikhs gatka?

question still stands.

http://www.sikhsanga...ji-mizara-wale/

No one wants to answer ? or is the truth that gatka is a Muslim art hurtful ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnRoAhojxQY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6JBRinzz7U&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h74Jd68idrg&feature=related Just a few example's of gatka.... The pentra is very similar, ritual/nuances are the same, vaar's, namaskar's are the same etc etc. Now for my question, How does this fit with the theory held by many especially gatka baaj that 'gatka' is the unique 'sikh' martial art which was given by Guru Hargobind Ji? So whats the theory re gatka baazi in Pakistan...?

when did I mention in my posts I go to clubs?! dont put words into my mouth. Nor do I want to be a bouncer, when did I say I did?

Whats wrong with being a bouncer???? nothing wrong with it. You say we only strike when all other means have failed, so you would try to talk it out with someone who's being aggressive with you and is about to strike you? then you would strike if they hit you? ask any martial artist if someone is being aggressive towards you and its likely they will try to attack you they would finish it right then, taking the person out straight away. Martial Artists and even your average joe wont wait till they get hit then to fight back, its all about survival. I think you should refer to jangnama, yes bana and bani is important so is training in vidiya. "Do not call the dogs (the Sikhs) dogs, because they are lions (and) are courageous like lions in the battlefield. How can a hero, who roars like a lion be called a dog? (Moreover) like lions they spread terror in the field of battle. If you wish to learn the art of war, come face to face with them in the battlefield. They will demonstrate it (art of war) to you in such a way that one and all will shower praise on them. http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=12806 just my two cents.

whats wrong with the Vidiya we have been passed down? why would you want to learn something else? when it covers literally everything. You would rather learn something else than to keep your own vidiya alive? ਪਾਹੁਲ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੇਰ ਛਜੱਈਏ । ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਿਦ੍ਯਾ ਸਬੈ ਸਿਖੱਈਏ ।

typical right? anything which some of you don't understand or which isnt inline with your views is RSS? nothing wrong with it. I guess the countless Fresco's in old gurdwareh are wrong as they have paintings of Vishnu and chandi etc? According to you then I bet this attachment is wrong ? I bet a RSS agent went back 100's of years to paint that? ignorant guy. ਸੁੰਭ ਬਲੁ ਧਾਰ ਸੰਘਾਰ ਕਰਵਾਰ ਕਰਿ ਸਕਲ ਖਲੁ ਅਸੁਰ ਦਲੁ ਜੈਤ ਜੈ ਚੰਡਿਕਾ ॥੨੩੦॥

you want to be a shastardhari.....first of all learn shastar vidiya, there isnt any point carrying a kirpan(most likely you have a taksali one - dont bother with it as its always blunt! have something which can be used) or any other shastar without knowing how to use them. If someone has martial vidiya they could disarm you and use it on you. Shastardhari doesnt just mean keeping weapons you have to do the right sewa for them do puja of the weapons and do shastar vidiya puja! Later on in Naveen Panth Prakash, Giani Gian Singh mentions some of the Rehat that was given to the Khalsa Singhs.(taken from http://sikh-reality.blogspot.com/) ਪਾਹੁਲ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੇਰ ਛਜੱਈਏ । ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਿਦ੍ਯਾ ਸਬੈ ਸਿਖੱਈਏ । Take Khandey Di Pahul and all should learn Shastar Bidiya [the science of arms]. ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਫਤੇ ਗਜੱਈਏ । ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਤਨ ਸਜਵੱਈਏ ॥੪੦॥ Chant Vahiguru Ki Fateh [The victory is the Lords], and adorn yourself with weapons and clothes. ਸਿਖ੍ਯਾ ਜੰਗ ਕਰਨ ਕੀ ਦੱਈਏ । ਸਿੰਘ ਨਾਮ ਇਨਿ ਕੇ ਰਖਵੱਈਏ । Give the teachings of how to wage war, in this way you shall retain the name Singh. ਗਾਥ ਬੀਰ ਰਸ ਸੀ ਸੁਨਵੱਈਏ । Listen to the stories which inspire 'Bir Ras' [warrior spirit]. [Naveen Panth Prakash, pg. 1571, Vol. 3] Again Giani Gian Singh mentions the Rehat that was told to the Singhs. ਖੇਲੈਂ ਨਿੱਤ ਸ਼ਿਕਾਰ ਬਨਨ ਮੈਂ, ਮਾਰਿ ਮ੍ਰਿਗ ਬਹੁ ਖਾਵੈਂ । Always partake in hunting, [practice] killing deer and then eat your hunt. ਘੋੜਨ ਪਰ ਅਸਵਾਰ ਹੋਇ ਕਰਿ, ਸਜ ਕੈ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਾਰੇ । Ride horses and wear all sorts of weapons. ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਬ੍ਯਿਾ ਸੀਖ ਸਿਖਾਵੈਂ, ਜਪੈ ਅਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲੇ । Learn Shastar Bidya [the science of Arms], and chant Akaal Akaal [Naveen Panth Prakash, pg. 1589, Vol. 3]

Exactly what Gurbar Akaal said!

revive it? Only one lone Nihang is doing that sewa....Nihang Niddar Singh. well ive been doin a martial art for abou 8 years now (got a black belt ;-) ). and i completely disagree. u cant use the fact that u did kung fu when u were a kid as a valid example bcos u were indeed just a kid. if u want i can prove that martial arts work- gimme a time and a place ;-) (that was a frendly joke b4 admins come along and kik me off the forum ). i disagree. i think shastar vidya is not going to help at all now. u pull put ur kirpan and shastar in a real life fight and use it against someone then ur gna get kirpan banned for sure. instead i think gatka and shastar vidya are more for show- although it may be important to learn it, realisticaly ur never going to use it on streets etc. get your head checked I think your trying your dastaar a bit too tight as it seems that you are confused seeing as you think and shastar vidiya are the same things. shastar vidiya for show? your having a laugh. you have never seen the true shastar vidiya bet you havent even stepped in Niddar Singhs Akhara, you talk about how the vidiya wont help us now, your a joke you dont know jack.dont comment on things you dont know. hello mr caveman. nope my keski is actually rather loose at the moment... let me rephrase my last post: go ahead and learn shastar vidya- but i would advise not placing ur shastar inside some one elses body in a fight unless you want kirpans banned :-). yes it is impt to learn, but unless you live in a country which allows you to use weapons in fights then your not going to be able to really use it. if you want to learn how to "street fight" then take up boxing or something like that etc. if you still think im a joke for advising not to use shastars in a fight then i couldnt care less. theres too many sad people like you looking for arguments on this forum- get a life. anyway this is my last post on this topic i have much better things to do... What makes you think someone who learns shastar vidiya would use a 'kirpan'? for starters most kirpans are blunt better off using a spoon. doesnt shastar vidiya work in the street fighting mentality? if it doesnt why am I going? you do understand there is a unarmed system then you will move onto weapons IF you are good enough. Like I said on a previous post.... I havent posted in over 7 months, I havent posted back on here to get into stupid arguements......

I havent posted in over 7 months, I havent posted back on here to get into stupid arguements with people like you who think Niddar Singh would actually go to a club. Dont believe everything you hear use your own brain. gatka is not half way like shastar vidiya two completely different things, visit the akhara. Adaptation is the key.

Fateh Ji I totally disagree, I think in todays day an age, we need to aquire skills and keep developing them.I advise all young Sikhs to get into boxing as its the quickest way to get someone down, then gradually moving into grappling etc. Gatka for me has become a show event but in an ideal world would not really help for self defence. bhul chuk maaf karni Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fatteh shastar vidya/gatka wud be good if we started to revive it I have a feeling tht during the next few years things mite change all of us will realize ourselves and then begin to follow the miri piri way(spiritual physical political etc) WJKK WJKF! Shastar vidhiya also has it's boxing and hand to hand skills, i'm not saying not to pursue mma i actually would encourage it lol. Just saying i'd prefer shastar vidhiya/gatka over it. For a start forget about all the comemrcial martial arts Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Kung Fu etc...they have all been watered down...boxing is too 1 dimensional and will not stand up against a skilled opponent. Learn some pure martial arts which have true battlefield background such as the Fillipino arts Kali, Eskrima, Panantukan (hands free dirty boxing), Arnis is also good. Also forgrt about Gatka it's a waste of time jumping around with an oversized stick is not going to defend you on the street yet alone the battlefield..we all know Gatka is a watered down exhibitionist display art not a true battlefield combat system. Shastar Vidiya as taught by Niddar Singh in the UK is also very good from what I have seen of it is a no-nonsense pure no-holds barred art encompassing hands free, grappling, weapons, fighting multiples etc...A lot of sangat may not agree with Niddar Singhs views but for his efforts at promoting and teaching the art he must be respected, hi skill level has to be seem to be believed. Do NOT confuse Shastar Vidiya as with the exhitionist gatka stuff you see they are worlds apart. If there are any UK guys around, Nidhar Singh demonstrating at the Martial Arts Show Birmingham NEC in a couple of weeks go check it out.. Krav Maga the isreali art also looks intresting but it's no a unique art, it's copied from the filipino arts, still effective though. MMA is also worth learning but it is too much governed and run by rules..on the stree or battlefiels there are no rules.. exactly at least you arent living in a 'kookoo land' thinking gatka is a martial art, thumbs uppp http://www.themartialartsshow.com/ http://www.themartialartsshow.com/Shastar%20Vidiya.html

Fateh Ji I totally disagree, I think in todays day an age, we need to aquire skills and keep developing them.I advise all young Sikhs to get into boxing as its the quickest way to get someone down, then gradually moving into grappling etc. Gatka for me has become a show event but in an ideal world would not really help for self defence. bhul chuk maaf karni Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fatteh shastar vidya/gatka wud be good if we started to revive it I have a feeling tht during the next few years things mite change all of us will realize ourselves and then begin to follow the miri piri way(spiritual physical political etc) WJKK WJKF! revive it? Only one lone Nihang is doing that sewa....Nihang Niddar Singh. well ive been doin a martial art for abou 8 years now (got a black belt ;-) ). and i completely disagree. u cant use the fact that u did kung fu when u were a kid as a valid example bcos u were indeed just a kid. if u want i can prove that martial arts work- gimme a time and a place ;-) (that was a frendly joke b4 admins come along and kik me off the forum ). i disagree. i think shastar vidya is not going to help at all now. u pull put ur kirpan and shastar in a real life fight and use it against someone then ur gna get kirpan banned for sure. instead i think gatka and shastar vidya are more for show- although it may be important to learn it, realisticaly ur never going to use it on streets etc. get your head checked I think your trying your dastaar a bit too tight as it seems that you are confused seeing as you think and shastar vidiya are the same things. shastar vidiya for show? your having a laugh. you have never seen the true shastar vidiya bet you havent even stepped in Niddar Singhs Akhara, you talk about how the vidiya wont help us now, your a joke you dont know jack.dont comment on things you dont know.

chaarae ku(N)ddaa dhaekh a(N)dhar bhaaliaa || After looking around in the four directions, I looked within my own self. sachai purakh alakh siraj nihaaliaa || There, I saw the True, Invisible Lord Creator. oujharr bhulae raah gur vaekhaaliaa || I was wandering in the wilderness, but now the Guru has shown me the Way. sathigur sachae vaahu sach samaaliaa || Hail to the True, True Guru, through whom we merge in the Truth. paaeiaa rathan gharaahu dheevaa baaliaa || I have found the jewel within the home of my own self; the lamp within has been lit. sachai sabadh salaahi sukheeeae sach vaaliaa || Those who praise the True Word of the Shabad, abide in the peace of Truth. niddariaa ddar lag garab s gaaliaa || But those who do not have the Fear of God, are overtaken by fear. They are destroyed by their own pride. naavahu bhulaa jag firai baethaaliaa ||24|| Having forgotten the Name, the world is roaming around like a wild demon. ||24|| This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Maajh on Pannaa 149 Guidance

dhan dhan bhagat Puran Singh Ji

''An eye for an eye will make the whole world go blind'' Following Dera Lucha Sauda is a paap in itself. indeed, but this mentality of them killing sikhs then killing them is wrong also, like i said ''An eye for an eye will make the whole world go blind'' it will be a endless cycle of violence of sikhs killing these followers and babeh and they retaliating there is no stop in sight. just my opinion, things get worse till there would be no end in the violence.

''An eye for an eye will make the whole world go blind''

why? killing innocent people is a good thing?

pal singh is a legend! love his mucha anyone have his email address? if so PM me