alias

jo hum ko parmesar uchar hai, te sabh narak kudh meh par hai. this means whoever calls themselves god, they will fall into hell. the 'hum' is > bahu bachan< in gurbani grammer. guru sahib talks about the pakhands in the previous pauris, and here as well.. gur param-eeswar eko jaan. and, baadshaha darvesh guru gobind singh; shahin shahan shaha guru gobind singh; hak hak aagaha..... hk ^ud vswi& guru goibMd isMG ] hak khudh vasaaf gur gobindh singh | Guru Gobind Singh Ji is praised by God Himself guru gobing singh ji is aap akaal purakh roop on earth.

yea thats what i heard that it means ghar 1. are there any other shabads where there is a ghar 1 and that is the first shabad? and if so, is there a little one there as well?? iv also just noticed that it is you that is saying that the little '1' means ghar 1, and then you saying that >>on this basis that it is a ghar phela, and the first shabad, then there is a one there.. is this not basing it on your own speculation??? i.e. speculation that its a ghar phela in the 1st place? after all it doesent say ghar 1 or anything like this at the start.. this is my 1st q.. my 2nd q... if we take what you (the prof dude) are saying to be correct, does it fit in with other shabads that is a ghar 1 and the first shabad??... whenever i sed u, i mean prof dude... its just eaisear to say u cus its just soooo long otherwise.... thanks... for your reply... hope you under stand ma Qz!! gurfateh..

hers another!!! nearly every (solid) giani i talk to, they only know a lil bout it and then say that the kaum needs to do khorj... if anyone knows anything, please post me. or pm me.. whatever suits you.

gurfateh ji, im trying to find out what this number means.. do the mods or anyone else know anything about this number??? its just under the shabad (word) poorbi in the pic.. its in ang 204 sggs. all i know is that we do not say it in paat ucharan. id wouldnt like speculations about this, id like to have sugestions.. thnks..

maya is a play thing that has been put on this earth to test us. it is a play thing from god to see if we indulge, or not.. go to god, or not.. maya is not money.. but it can be seen to be 1 example of it.. maya is..... ANYTHING that taked you away from god.. in anandsahib... jaisi agan udhar mehe, taisi bahar maya. maya agan sabh aeko jehi, karte khel rachaaya. the rest of the pauri goes on to explain to us that why we are here... etc.. but these 2 first lines say that, however the fire dances, (as we see the fire dancing if we set summin alite), thats how maya is there outside, i.e. within the world. then the second line.. maya agan.. this is a concept. the fire-maya is all the same, (that is to say, maya is only 1, but comes in different forms, hence ppl say maya is mony), and this maya has beed rachaaed, has been put on this earth as a play thing (which we must not indulge in.. the rest of the paure says through the grace of god, we have become born into a family. and then our connection to god has been broken (because maya gets all of us when we are young!some say as soon as we are born) and the love for maya has hit us, and maya is given out as if it is the jewl of the world (i.e. in place of naam) then the pauri says, this maya that has taken you away from god, you have become attached to it, and then you start to love the ''seconds''... i.e. the ppl and all that is second to god. then the closing line to this pauri, says guru amardaas, those people that have their connection to god set amidst/ in the middle of maya, are the true ones that are the true gurprasadies the true people that take guru jis naam (because gurprasaad is sat naam aekangkaara. :D ) bout maya being a woman, thas only cusa men. to women maya is a fit guy! so again... maya is anything that takes you away from god... it was said by a previous poster, that maya is not good or bad... this is in the notion that nothing is good or baad, because to look at good and bad is to be the same thing... it says this time and time again in gurbani... e.g. paap pun doe ek samaan; paap pun bhi saar na jaane; etc etc etc.... o! and kanchan loh samaan.. this is to say that gold and sarabloh to be seen as the same... but this is high level teaching... and some dont understand it... maya takes u away from god... its mayas job. iv heard that maya is also an entity that also wants to tar like we do. i.e. to get to god... but the catch with maya is that it cannot jup naam, but it can steal it from naamis, the ppl that do naam. and so, at the end of kaljug, maya will also tar. maya will alsi get 'emancipated'.. but this is jus what iv heard... maya is a thing that plays on ur mun. hence, mun jeetae jag jeet.. neway.. hope ur q is answered... and bout watching tv movies and doing naam, either u will start to simmar the badness and say vah vah to the badness, which is silly, or u will get a little bit of goodness, cus ur dpoing the naam simran, but u aint concentrating on it... so u also in this case may not get any goodness from the jupping, cus u aint reely jupping anyway... or, you concentrate on naam, and then u loose it all through your eyes.. either ways, ur skrewed!!! gurfateh jeeos...

you wont be safe at all here or after if u do paap cus u will kamaa karam. we are here to bhorg karam.. kirpaan is generally the last kakaar that one is blessed with... if you are an abhlakhee (a dude thas preparing to take amrit or is read to take amrit), then u can. for training, whey protien is the best. better than any meat and egg.. look it up.. all good shakes are going toward whey protien.. soz but its not ok to eat eggs. we are not here to harvest what we can from this world, and to try n get around the rules set by guru ji and our religon, but to come under hukam and follow the hukam. we as sikhs do not rather, should not indulge in the pleasures of anything apart from aatamak ras cus every other ras is fika (tasteless). if u wear a kirpaan for that reason, its not a kirpan. the actual word kirpaan means somthing u no - hopefully u will find it out for yourself. you may get the dagger taken off you. what id do is carry somthing on my back, under my cloaths. or, jus make them ur mates but dont hang with them - it is possible!. the kirpaan is to stand up against opression, not idol people that hurt ones ego. besides im sure that if it is more than 1 person in the gang, then u will find it hard to defete them and!, the last thing u wana do is provoke these kinda ppl.. know all the idiots and 'hard nuts' but, do NOT get into silly company or hang with them for longer.... uni is good for 'networking', but DO NOT GO OFF THE PATH! it is possible....

gurfateh jio. within the youth there exisits this apparant parradox. whether you feel prem or moh, or attachment or etc.... as far as it cas come to my understanding, there are 4 terms. 1. moh 2. prem 3. piyar 4. preet 2 3 and 4 can be seen to mean the same thing, and moh (aka maya/ maya moh/ pankaj moh) os a seperate thing. we are always told to love god and ppl, but what is this and how are we supposed to go about it?... this is the main question... at this point id like to make a statment which i hold to be true about sikhi and everything else... >> if somthing is true and right, it does not matter how deep we go into it, it will always be right. the same stands for badness... threfore, if somthing is needed to have a boundry/ is only correct up to a certian level, it must mean that it is not the way. (this in effect goes so far as to say that those that say that its ok to indulge into the 5 chor kaam krodh... etc.. but only up to a level, i.e. to procreate or in battle, they are wrong because they have a different definition/outlook on certian things like the 5 chor.) neway. we are only indulging into the wrong thing if we need to say that we can only do xyz up to a certian level. guru and sat are infinite and beyant. sat is forever and infinite, we get to sat through prem piyaar and preet (of bani seva and naam). and we are told to love all. this means (quite obvously), that there exists only 1 form of true love for everyone (hence sarbat da bhalla) /and for god and for ourselves, and for all of humanity and all living things.. so if theres only one form of true love, then we need to findout how to access this, and then exercise it within ourselves first, so then we may find this purity love (pure love) within all others and then... become a hippy and... spread the lurrrve!!. even husband/ wife etc... so once we find this love, we have found ourselves on the pathway for the means to an end. i.e. the infinite. (if u dont understand this bit, it doesnt matter) i used to ask my gora mates and my other friends hu were in a relationship that what do u think is this true love?... they all gave their answers. but, as far as i understand, which isnt even anything..., i didnt think that all their answers did purity love justice. how i would describe pure love, is the love that a father/mother feels for his/her children and vica verca, is also the love that a child feels for the parent. is also the love (in a sane world) of brother and sister. and to me formost, the love that one (should) feel(s) for a child when they see them. all else is fake and created by the chunchal-ness within us. there is 1 mun, with 2 mool roops called chunchal and piyaaria. (think its pauri 8and 9 in the anandsahib- i may be wrong...) and these 2 roops of our 1 mun, is where we must fight the good fight. and then come out on top ( i tel this to myself ofen... and im in the same boat as everyone else.) to your question, i hope iv answered. and to you, i think it may werve you well to re-evaluate the true (pure) meaning of love. i believe that everyone must do this, because it is a rare individule hu truely understands the meaning of true love. mwXw moh Brm pY BUly suq dwrw isau pRIiq lgweI ] bharam means doubleminded-ness. this pankti then means that > through maya and moh, i have become doubleminded and forgotton my pathway, and i now must put my preet on the sut dara, the sucha dar/gate/place/heaven/god. in gurbani it also says that thir ghar baisahu... im sure u know this shabad as most do. thir ghar means heaven/ sur dara. but, thir ghar also is within ourselves. the gate where we must vas/stay, is through our own mun. everything is hidden within our mun. the wonders of the kingdom of heaven... everything... through preet, we can unlock it. this is what we are supposed to do. one last thing, we have a duty on this earth... everything is moh, yea even family but we only owe then 1 thing... the duty that we are born with. to love and to do seva of ones own family is one of the highest rather hardest sevas to do... (there is no high or low seva.. just pure seva, as and when we get it.. to take the oppertune momentto do seva) we are only here do do our duty,and just love stuff.. and also protect, but that comes much later!! :D gurfateh

iv had a look at the link thanks... where can i get this pothi from?? the naanak gita? is it on line? if not, where in uk can i get it from? thanks jeeoz

my g... iv been looking for this for years... there is the gobind gita by dasmesh pita - i new of that, but whats the other one by guru naanak dev ji??? i aint heard bou that 1... wos the history and synopsis of this bani/pothi? and can ppl can ppl buy it??

sorry that u sound upset from your post and sorry to cause a cufuful jio! - if iv caused 1.. how the story goes is that guru naanak dev ji went into the water 4 3days and then came out of the water and braught from dargah 2 things. 1=naam 2=amrit (charal pahul --> later rachaaed into khande ki pahul due to the eternality of SGGS.) then from what guru naanak dev ji saw (god), they were so amazed that they couldnt describe what was seen.. i.e. the akath katha of god. then, somone asked guruji what they saw, then the moolmantar came out from gurunaanak dev ji.. then the question was asked to guruji, what shal we do with this info/mantar. guru ji replied, jup.....hosi bhi such.. this is y we do it to naanak hosi bhi such. the mool of god is described up to gurprasaad. for us, i.e. what to do with this, is up to naanak hosi bhi such.. the number '1' is put at the end of this till bhi such, making this a 'bundh'. so we (or shud i say that i believe that we) shud do up until hosi bhi such however, the mool roop of god is up till gurprasaad. i.e. nirgun saroop - even gurprasaad is hard to explain!!! just achut katha is the only way to describe it. and the maha roop aka maha mantar is up till hosi bhi such i.e. maha becuse god is everywhere --> sargun. >>the nirgun sargun naatak<< this is y we do it all the way to bhi such.... thanks for the list of sants.. will come in handy! :D gurfateh gurmukh pyaario :D :D :D :D

bhram gyanis say that mool mantar up to gurprasaad - because this is the 'description' or 'mool' of the nirgun saroop (as well as the ustat) maha mantar up to naanak hosi bhi sach for a literal meaning... beej mantar is the mantar that can seed guru and all greatness and naam within ourselves - if we jup naam n try and go towards god, as well as the mantar that we must seed into. (dissolve into - as salt is to water, so are we to god.) beej mantar can be seen as to mean god. it is from this seed, everything starts. the naam 'motor' the chaal, the raman (jaap) of naam, how simran turns into naam.. everything. this is how we start on our marag (spiritual pathway). it can be seen as this. the beej mantar is what we must enshrine within ourselves, as we can enshrine ourselves within it - the beej mantar. everything we do - the saas saas simran; the simran with our heartbeat; the simran with the steps of our walking, the repetition the 'abhyaas' - which means saying summin over and over again, doing this by yourself, or in sadh sangat(where it gets amplified exponentially) this is all do 1 thing. enshrine naam;the vibration; the seed, within ourselves. this is also known as the beej mantar. so it can be seen, as per the above comment, that beej mantar can be seen as god. beej mantar never dies and is always there. is it always with you. just as the vibration of the universe is. beej mantaris the center of all things surrounding it, but it is also (!) the things surrounding the beej mantar it self. nirgun aap sargun bhi or-hi. dhan dhan gur satguru. gurfateh ji.

this means that satguru is in charge of whether i live or die - here i think it means in the context of physical death but, it can mean with reagrds to other deaths as well. like the death of the mun, soul n stuff like that... i.e. god can kill me, and keep me alive. this is to say that we haveso much faith in god that we trust god with out lives; and he can do whatever he pleases with us. this is also like, mera dukh sukh tudh hi paas ; which means that, all of my dukh sukh, all of my hardships and plesasures are with you; when we say, 'with you', this means that again, god controls this, and it is up to god what he gives us. gurfateh

IV PMed you

sikhi is however deep you want to take it. we all have a stating point. to build on that and >to strive to success< is the key.:rolleyes: keep guru as your core inspiration and you never fall down gurfateh dude!

if guru nanak was alive today, he would tell you that you dont have any right to chose your child's religion. whent he child grows up, he/she can decide for themselves who they want to be. the conclusion is, be good and dont cause harm to others. i hope your kids become like me, athiest!! but at the end of the day, you dont chose, THEY DO!! hiya ji, just somthing i picked up. u say that guru ji would say that we dont have the right to choose our childs faith. i believe that too. i also believe that we dont choose our parents thus, our religion. from a religous point of view, we dont choose our religon, god duz and if we go against that, we are going against gods hukam. i.e, what god sez. yea fine, kids that have parents frm 2different faiths, have a choice to make, to which it will be harder for them to make. they must search inside theire selves what they want. i have seen very strong trends that kids that com from a multifaith background, are more inclined to one faith than another. this may be governed by attention from one particular parent than the other, or a genetic thing. this is (or can be percieved as) the hand of god (gods doing). so children wil be more inclined to one faith from my observations. but, for one to disown th faith that god himself has given to that person, is to go outside of gods wish. with respest to conversons, my viewpoint is that one must search their feelings and fully understand the scripture that they are (so called) 'ment' to follow before thy actually make the decission to convert. converting on a whim or cus of life experences is just an excuse to change ones life, in an attempt to effect change in their mind, which should be, in effect, effected by ones own self understanding, and maybe with respect to relegion. so i feel that before you talk about what guru sahib has done/would think, i think you need to take a look at your own life decissions. because you have denounced what guru sahib/god has chosen for you, and yu have llimited yurself in saying, >i dont want to understand what guru sahib want for me, i nly want to undestand what i want for me< may be a bit selfish/ narrow minded/ limiting yourself?? i dont mean to judge, just an observatin ji.. please dont take offence...? please?!! c ya

gurfateh ji, to start with, sikhi believes that god has an infinite number of names, so naryan here means GOD himself. this shabad is a very beautiful shabad. the shabad is by guru arjan dev ji. fifth guru. and this shabad explains what god is like, what he does, how we can find him, and its link to naam, how we should jup naam, what happens when we jup naam. this shabad tells you where god is, tells yu what happpens to yourself when you jup/do the naam. it tells you what god should be to you, tells you the power of god, the nature of god, it even explains what type of person (rather, saint) god is to him i.e. what a saintly person sees god as. it explains the importence of saadh-sangat. and how high and next level saadh-sangat is. >> it also tells you how ofen to sing the praises of god (naryan)! so you already have your answer from guru ji, before you even asked your question!!!<< this shabad also explains that what the true nature of the true servent of god (which we are all trying to become). gurbani is beyant. without end hence infinite. if we put restrictions on the iinfinite shabad guru, then we are only going to limit ourselves. hence! there is no specific times for gurbani or number of times to say gurnani. gurbani is beyant. how can we cage infinity? we cant y? cus it defeats the object of the very nature of infinity i.e. god. so in this very shabad, which is praise of god, it tells you hw many times to say the shabad. baarang baar! again and again! never stopping! you may think of a question that wot bout the japji sahib/nitnem. can we do that in the eve? A: yes! as long as you start your day with it aswell. it has a spitirual function. however, bani can be recited any time in the day/nite. in gurbani, the word 'sadha' cmes alot. meaning all the tiime. thinking bout god/ jupping naam/ all the rest. bani cannot be resticted by time or space! :lol: and, some gurmukhs nly need to say 1 vaheguru, and they are on it! for the lucky few, through kirpa of god, they have attained this maha-gift from guru/god. hope this answers the q. l8rz jeeo!

is ok found it now

yarp.. can u help me wid ma prob as stated in the above post???

does anyone no where i can get the mp3/vid of chim chim varse amrit dhaara? by bhai balwinder singh rangila?? on the inet or anything... im actualy looking for a specific tune.... but could people refer me to anything they have? thanks..

The cyanide was taken when the Jujharoo's were caught by the police, or when their ammunition had run out. This was in order to prevent them giving out vital information about their groups during interrogation and torture by the security forces. dhan dhan guru ji de gurmukh pyaare naal sarbat da bhala hove. the cyanide was taken when they got caught after thy had done the act. i duno why they didnt just not give any information by not talking?? and just dissolve into god?? our core is guru. we look to them for anything. even role models. if none of the gurus suicided themselves (i feel paaap even just suggesting such a thing..please maaf karaadho) when say, punjve paatsaah sat on th tati tavi, then, why should we? hu are we to do that?? this is just my point. lemi tell u sumin.. there was a chinese or japaneese general of an army.. he won bare battles n stuff. it is a tradition that, if the entire side lost, and the general/king got caught, they would take their own sword and then send it percing thrugh themselves. y? just to say that they will die by no ones elses hand apart from their own. when our gurus got caught and such things, what did they do?? i wish to leave you with this question. singhs that are ready to give shaheedi, are so solid that no one can break them. this is jus 1 of the reasons y shaheedi is so hard. as a side point,:huh::umm: (it can be said that the cyanide ppl didnt think that they could survive[mentaly] the questioning. implying that they wernt solid to give shaheedi, but this is just random talking.... this is an inferance on the previous point....) suicide is so far away from sikhi that we just cant do it... we are not suppsed to... we are supposed to (before we can even think about giving shaheedi) be so much dissolved into god. so much so that we are doing simran undin, walking sitting, sleeping, and if somone nudges you, or swears, or hurts you mentally physically, YOUR SIMRAN DONT STOP. AT ALL. only then can we even think of giving shaheedi.. we we are naam rasia, then no pain, no interigation or anything can touch us. dhan gur guru ji di sikhi!!!! this is the only reason y i think that they made a mistake in suicide.. gurfateh jeeo...

Nobody is sayin that the Jujharoo's took cyanide AFTER winning a battle. Your going off in a tangent. i dont think its a tangent but... ok. my mistake.. but wen did they take it?? im sure not before or during the act.. i just thort that after they done the act, thats wen they done it.... but my mistake if they didnt... gurfateh jeeo

haha deal! and btw, sukhnidaan is prashad. it contains non-refined cannabis leaves. like ive explained in previous topics, most medicines that you will take for a mild headache will actually intoxcate you more than 5, small, un-processed, un-refined leaves. these are natural leaves gven by the nature of the planet. Thats interesting why is the word ( Bhang) aka Canibus used in the Buddha Dal Gutka when describing how to make "SukhNidan" >>>these are natural leaves gven by the nature of the planet<<< so is poison berries and many other poisons from plants that can also stop alot of diseases in their tracks. and just like the unrefined canabis, it kills you aswell as whatever inhibition you want to get rid of by taking the canabis! its just a joke that canabis is good/ this and that... it might have good effect, but so do lots of sulfonamides and cyanide derrivitive drugs! and though these drugs kill the bacteria and what not, it also kills you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that is a beautiful quote ji. with the cannon thing, to do what is nessasary is needed. and that is shaheed. and munmut is not. and is also not a way of getting shaheed. taking ones own life into ones own hands... what a concept. what a coonsept ji. to speak gennerally about this concept, as i can understand it, wont work, and this concept must be looked at in specified concepts. like the bomb dude, i am >specifically to this incident< unsure as to what to believe whether this is shaheedi or not. BUT! my gut instinct tells me that it IS shaheedi. y? cus its during warfare.this is y >i think< that im getting this gut instinct... --------------------------------------------- as a side note (just for completion, id like to say that if one is on the battle field and runing to the opponant, and then they suicide themselves while running, during this warfare, i am against this! for obvious reasons!!) --------------------------------------------- but! taking cyanide is an act of somthing other than warfare/war as i see it. because warfare definition is somthing like: disharmony amongst 2 sides/people/whatever.... After that this disharmony has been neutrilised, what then the need for warfare?? and against yourself at that!!!?? it just defies logic!?!?!? please reffer to my previous 'long' post where i stated that it is stupid if 'shaheed' singhs sucided themselves after winning battles. this argument stands, and will stand for a long time because to kill yourself after one has won the war/battle, is jus silly to be frank.(or alias! jokes!) i think this prety much sumz it all up... gurfateh

gurfateh i agree. i dont no much about guerilla warfare, but i can differentiate between munmut and gurmut/hukam. i would like to ask though, what is the reason that is used in the mainstreem, for why the cyanide was taken? to actively decide somthing that is not in line with gurmut, is munmut. or at least not gurmut! please, im soz if i may be typing kaurra-ly.. its not my nature to speak sharply.. gurfateh

Guru sahib says that pehila maran kabool…. If these shaheed singhs took cynide, they are taking matters of death, and using munmut (from one viewpoint) to decide for themselves and taking their own into their own hands. To me, the way we >kabool< our death, is not by saying, ok, im gona die neway, so lets suicide.. its by realising that our breaths have been given by god to us to jup naam, and we cant turn around and reject this gift, as and when we please, or as and when we want to. Guru di dain hai! On a wider note/higher level, yes. It is hukam. But on that same level and same wider note, it is also hukam that those people that (maybe) got raped, tortured and MDK’d (murder death killed), that whole thing, was also hukam. This is on a very wide note. A very high level of thinking. Back down on earth with moorakhs like me, things are different. People are not ready to say, that bad deed was done because it was hukam. On the most basic level, the thort came from the peoples mind to take cyanide. This makes it munmut. Or at least if not mun mut, not gurmut. (cus nowhere it guru sahib duz it say that comit suicide. Apart from to kill our own mun to bring ego etc to zero…) so if this is not gurmut, it cant be in sikhi. Another thing is that it may suggest (im not sujesting that this is the case!!!) but it may sujest that the ppl that took the poison wernt strong enough in their faith to withstand torture or, questioning. Just maybe.. they may have been scared of torture so thought, lets take the easy way out… if this was the case, then they have not KABOOLed their own death… however, here im just speculating. There is also a thing in sikhi that if you commit suicide, you will become a prêt, a ghost, of I think, at least 200 years! because this was munmut and not from god, and heaven aint ready for you, and not even hell is ready for you (because heaven and hell are both under god), so you yearn belonging in an in-between world which will never be fullfuilled. Not nice I no, but that’s what it is. I cant remember all the baad deeds that are in the category that gets a soul the sentence of a ghost janam, a prêt janam. But like, the prêt joon was one of the things i.e. only part of the sentence that indra Ghandi received for what she did to humanity. The prêt joon is also the sentence (sentence as in >prison sentence<) for getting attached to property (sggs).. the others I cant remember if I even no of any others or not…. Neway, long post.. Gurfateh jeeo In addition! Going to ones death in war is how to get shaheed, not after the war is done! After the job was done, did the surviving singhs in guru sahibs time suicide themselves? I should hope not! After battles were won, it would be preposterous to kill oneself! YYYYYY!!!! People ask.. For they know nothing of the seva that guru sahib/god has in store for them! I hope the points made above are significantly considered. Gurfateh