alias

what does it mean to be in islam?? to believe in allah (the muzi definition of allah..) who created the concept of allah? mohamed. (the muzis hence say, 'the muslim god') what does it mean to be a muslim? to follow the way of the prophet mo. and his teachings. who do the muslims follow? MOHAMED! since the creation of islam is marked by mohmed, (sura 163 and 6:13) who is dubbed the first muslim in these suras. (p.s. in sura 3:67 and 2:127-133, it says abhram was the first muslim; however this is as per a different definition of being muslim! since the birth of mohmmed, that definition was changed.--> the muzis like to say that i was completed but it was changed, hence the difference in jesus of nazarath and muslims) from adam up untill jesus of nazarath, they are said to be muslim because of mohammeds definition of muslim.. hell, the muslims were even calling our guru naanak dev ji pir baba naanak! everyone knows the story of guru naanak sahibs assention to heaven. the muzis were fighting the hindus over who guru naanak dev ji belonged to. so, the 'prophets' before mohammed, were only as per the definition of being muslim. this is why, muzis also called guru naanak dev ji, 'theirs'. (as pointed out by user >Sarbat da Pala< ) it is now however established that mohamed is the bench mark for being a muslim. when was mohammed born( / how old is islam) ??? ~1400 years old! mohammed was born approx 570 AD in meka. so from this evidence alone, there is nothing that suggests that jesus of nazarath was a muzi. in fact the oposite is suggested! in one gospel (that was not included due to the romans, the full story is to long, but basikally, the romans chopped and changed parts in the bible, then made it law. lots of gospels could have made 'the cut' but didnt.) however.... in one gospel, jesus said that 'beware, the persians will come after my death and distort my word'.. and this is what happend... mohammed (who was called insane by his own uncle[dads bro] ) came and then started islam. so just because that the muzis say that jesus of nazarath was a muzi(of meka) dont make it true.. jesus was the 'prophet mohammed. i cant remember the sura, but it says that there have been prophets throughout the ages (i think it says 125000 but some sources say 124000 and others 240000! so there is a question.. if all of them are prophets, then how come that the message of jesus differs??? this is because the muzis 'honoured the saying of jesus of nazarath' i.e. they distorted the word of jesus of nazarath just like jesus of nazarath said that they wud.. another question is, why are only 26 prophets recognised in islam? (again, some say that there are 24 prophets of islam and others say that there are 30 others say 31(by including adam)... either way, the shill is adement. it can be clearly seen the (serious) inconsistencies in islam. i feel that there is no question about it that the word of jesus of nazarath was warped by the muzis. it just makes us say, dhan sikhi. dhan sikh dharam. gurfateh

The 34 Hukumnamas of Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji from Ganda Singh's 'Hukumnamey' Singh, Ganda. HUKUMNAME Guru Sahibaan, Mata Sahibaan, Banda Singh Ate Khalsa Ji De (Punjabi) .Patiala.Punjabi University,1999. pp 124 - 191 where can i get this book from?

i wish to reffer you to my previous post in this topic where i stated that, we are not destined to go to heaven or hell, it is earned. hence the propersition of kamai in sikhi. through the actions of people in their past lives etc, karam is made. everyone knows this. but what a common misconception of karam is, is that people take karam to mean that they are destined to end up somwhere, i.e. they think that there is no choice. we are only destined to be put in a situation as a direct result of our karam, and then, from there we have a choice of whether to act on that, or to not. either acting or not acting may be good or bad. furthermore, it is written for a sikh to meet with sangat/ guru, but through the actions of our own choice, we either move toward the truth or away from it. so it is written for us to meet with say...sangat.. but we choose to progress that way or not. on the larger scale/ higher level of thought, god sets our very thoughts in our minds. i.e. god gives us the mind to make our decisions. god does everything. even the nirankaries/naamdharis etc.. god has put them there. even the incidents regarding the gurdwaras being bombed. god does all of that himself. this does not mean that we just let things happen and sit back. this is on a much deeper level tho. we have the mind and the guidence from our guru to get through any situation we have been put in, regarding karam or whatever. karam can be riped/washed. guru also says this. now for a few corrections... the lines from the sohela you have posted you have got 2 lines mixed up.. kwim kroiD ngru bhu BirAw imil swDU KMfl KMfw hy ] kaam karodh nagar bahu bhariaa mil saadhoo khanddal khanddaa hae | The body-village is filled to overflowing with sexual desire and anger, which were broken into bits when I met with the Holy Saint. pUrib ilKq ilKy guru pwieAw min hir ilv mMfl mMfw hy ]1] poorab likhath likhae gur paaeiaa man har liv manddal manddaa hae |1| By pre-ordained destiny, I have met with the Guru. I have entered into the realm of the Lord's Love. ||1|| and the laikha bit means, > if god writes it, then its written (... and i meet with guru...) so this is why we have the ardaas. we waste our time asking for passing our exams and such things like this, when the true ardaas is the shabad. >kar kirpa har naam devaayo< >mera gun avgun na veechaaro koi< and other like this. we do the adraas so god writes our sanjog (sanjog means good fortune/luck...... sanjogi means the one who has been given the good fortune {through ardaas and asking god-some people dont have to do ardaas and they just get the gur prasaad} ) god made the rules,so he can change/ write new one. we do the naam and bani and the ardaas, god will listen. another correction, changiaaya buriaaya vaache dharam hadoor karmi aapo aapni ke nerai ke door.. this means the good deeds and baad deeds vuj in the vacinity of dharam raaj (and if people haave done veechaar of paap and pun/ dukh and sukh i.e. getting lost in duality..then..) their karam is their own, no matter how far away or close that particular karam is to somone. the translation that is on sikhi to max etc is very very very distorted. guru sahib says that paap pun doe ek samaan. good and bad is all the same. ...dukh sukh baho bhorgan hai; giyaanang, sumh dukh sukhang, jugat nirmal nirvairanha. in seheskriti salok. the focal point of this tuk is that we are not supposed to do veechaar of dukh and sukh. when we are under the shelter of god, nothing touches us, hence the metephore of 'shelter' given in gurbani. raam naam subh jag ka taarak! dhan gurfateh

yup. bhram means god. i have to admit that i got confused by Nehmats post! cus the q was bout pronuncing the word and not the origon... but yup. it means god. in hinduism, they also call the absolute god bhrahm. god has many names. sikhi uses all the names. but then again, namastang anaame! oh the beauty... this discription of the play in duality in the sggs is there, and then states that god surpasses all duality. even paap and pun!!! dhan guru. paap pun doe, aek samaan. so when we mearge into god, we do to... gurfateh

^^ thats buddha dal. the extra bits are beautiful. this may confuse newbies. beautiful dohera..

i know what you mean. dancing is not a form of worship.here is a shabad which i think is best to concentrate on... kbhU hoie pMifqu kry bK´wnu ] kabehoo hoe panddith karae bakhaan | Sometimes, as scholars, they deliver lectures. kbhU moinDwrI lwvY iDAwnu ] kabehoo monidhaaree laavai dhiaan | Sometimes, they hold to silence in deep meditation. kbhU qt qIrQ iesnwn ] kabehoo thatt theerath eisanaan | Sometimes, they take cleansing baths at places of pilgrimage. kbhU isD swiDk muiK igAwn ] kabehoo sidh saadhik mukh giaan | Sometimes, as Siddhas or seekers, they impart spiritual wisdom. kbhU kIt hsiq pqMg hoie jIAw ] kabehoo keett hasath pathang hoe jeeaa | Sometimes, they becomes worms, elephants, or moths. Aink join BrmY BrmIAw ] anik jon bharamai bharameeaa | They may wander and roam through countless incarnations. nwnw rUp ijau sÍwgI idKwvY ] naanaa roop jio savaagee dhikhaavai | In various costumes, like actors, they appear. ijau pRB BwvY iqvY ncwvY ] jio prabh bhaavai thivai nachaavai | As it pleases God, they dance. jo iqsu BwvY soeI hoie ] jo this bhaavai soee hoe | Whatever pleases Him, comes to pass. nwnk dUjw Avru n koie ]7] naanak dhoojaa avar n koe |7| O Nanak, there is no other at all. ||7|| pUry qwl jwxY swlwh ] poorae thaal jaanai saalaah | Know that the perfect beat is the Praise of the Lord; horu ncxw KusIAw mn mwh ]1] rhwau ] hor nachanaa khuseeaa man maah |1| rehaao | other dances produce only temporary pleasure in the mind. ||1||Pause|| nic nic hsih clih sy roie ] nach nach hasehi chalehi sae roe | Those who dance and dance and laugh, shall weep on their ultimate departure. auif n jwhI isD n hoih ] oudd n jaahee sidh n hohi | They do not fly to the heavens, nor do they become Siddhas. ncxu kudxu mn kw cwau ] nachan kudhan man kaa chaao | They dance and jump around on the urgings of their minds. nwnk ijn@ min Bau iqn@w min Bwau ]2] naanak jina man bho thinaa man bhaao |2| O Nanak, those whose minds are filled with the Fear of God, have the love of God in their minds as well. ||2|| gurfateh..

Brahm. the one with the 'e' is a habitual mistake. lots of prounanciations vary, but the trueness of the word is timeless. just like the lord.. the timeless lord of the universe! dhan gurfateh

there is such a massive significance of the laava. the significance of walking around is you saying to yourself/god/guru, you take on board what each laav represents. there are 4 stages od avastha, and we want to get to the fourth. research is golden, naam is infinite. gurfateh

i think you may need to research about gristi jeevan. its in sukhmani sahib amongst alot of other bani, and not to mention that this doctrine is embedded in sikh dharam. before guru naanak maharaaj, people thort that family life was cursed. so they used to go up into the mountains and do their bhagti. these are the sadhus etc. living in grist (having a gristi jeevan) gets you further than a sadhu. this is in gurbani. it is much harder to be a family man as well as a bhagat. but this is what guru tells us. so it is possible! research is golden, naam is infinite. dhan dhan.. gurfateh

the origional dohera is from aagia bhaiee akkal ki... till... bache sharan jo hoe. these are three stanzas of which the first 2, guru gobind singh ji made. the 3rd,raj karega khalsa...... is from guru naanak dev jis karninama (which in itself is not too wel known, and a bit controversial). this is the "original dohera". the other 2 stanzas were added by gianni giaan singh (i think!) for sharda purposes. hence, discrepency after the origonal 3 stanzas between gurdwaras. this is as per the additions added.... regards to the mis reading of the original dohera i personally think its munmat... iv never heard this alteration so....um.... yea... gurfateh!

i personaly think thsat the trinity and the stuff about how we fell from heaven is not gurmut, rather abrahamic religons. like, the whole adam and eve story. they say that we fell from the heavens, which is also what you are saying.. for me, i dont believe it. try and convince me maybe?? gurfateh

^^ what separates us from animals is the 'choice'. the free will. yes we have predestined liives, however, we also have choice aswell. hence why we have a guru to guide us through our actions and to help us make the right decision. (the obvious implication of choice is here!) the question arises that, how can we have 'pre-destiny' along with 'choice' as these two seem to contridict each other. these two concepts are effectively two sides of a single coin. from what i have understood from vast mounds of knoledge (and gurbani) that i attempt to sift through, i have found a very plausable and supplementary to the whole world of 'karam' and such things. it is only our situations that we are predestined for, and not an outcome. we shape our own outcome from the choice we make within a particular situation, i.e. we do somthing bad (or good) in a past life, or in this life, we will reap the benefits of that action in our lives. we are not predestined to go to hell, or heaven, it must be earned. this is in gurbani. it is said repetively that we reap the benifits of our actions. (i know that on the even larger scale, we will all go back to god due to it being the only perminant place {heaven and hell are not perminant}, but that is a conversation of one level above that we are talking at.) this is why there is dharam raaj to deal with all the karam that we have. god doesent make anyone commit murder (in anger obviously) or anything like that. that situation that one is put in, IS the karam. this is why we must control out mun. >gusa mun na hundaae< how we act, is up to us, and, with the help and giudance of guru, (and god!..) we will make the correct decission. that is the true test/destiny. as a side note, which bani is that in? the bit about 'bhagat kabirs anuraag sagar'? or where can i find that? thanks... gurfateh jeeo

dhan guru granth sahib says that everything came from god. guru goes so far as to explain that ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲ ੧ ॥ ਤਨੁ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਮਾਟੀ ਭਇਆ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਿ ਮਨੂਰੁ ॥ ਅਉਗਣ ਫਿਰਿ ਲਾਗੂ ਭਏ ਕੂਰਿ ਵਜਾਵੈ ਤੂਰੁ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਭਰਮਾਈਐ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਡੋਬੇ ਪੂਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਮਨ ਰੇ ਸਬਦਿ ਤਰਹੁ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਬੂਝਿਆ ਮਰਿ ਜਨਮੈ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਤਨੁ ਸੂਚਾ ਸੋ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਸਾਚਾ ਨਾਉ ॥ ਭੈ ਸਚਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਦੇਹੁਰੀ ਜਿਹਵਾ ਸਚੁ ਸੁਆਉ ॥ ਸਚੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲੀਐ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਾਉ ॥੨॥ ਸਾਚੇ ਤੇ ਪਵਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਪਵਨੈ ਤੇ ਜਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਜਲ ਤੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮੋਇ ॥ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਮੈਲਾ ਨਾ ਥੀਐ ਸਬਦਿ ਰਤੇ ਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥੩॥ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਸਾਚਿ ਸੰਤੋਖਿਆ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਪੰਚ ਭੂਤ ਸਚਿ ਭੈ ਰਤੇ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਚੀ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਅਉਗਣ ਵੀਸਰੇ ਗੁਰਿ ਰਾਖੇ ਪਤਿ ਤਾਹਿ ॥੪॥੧੫॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 19-20} From the True Lord came the air (hydrogen and oxygen), and from the air came water (H2O). From water, He created the three worlds; in each and every heart He has infused His Light. The Immaculate Lord does not become polluted. Attuned to the Shabad, honor is obtained. ||3|| this is in line with darwins theory/natural selection/evolution/tree of life... that all life first started from complex chemical molecules; which came from simple (chemical) molecules such as hydrogen/oxygen. guru sahib has not bothered with all these intricate details of how, from water, the three worlds came about, (maybe because guru ji already knew that science would figure it out!- due to it not being that difficult to figure out-). as jisted by the previous poster, we should not waste time on knowing needless things, but, get closer to god, through, well, any means necessary. through raag/meditation/understanding his life/the origins of life- which will lead us to understand/ get that extra bit closer/more connected with god.. everything should be used as a tool to get to god, as god is the one who has made all the tools! :rolleyes: :lol: :rolleyes: gurfateh

iv posted about this karaam thing before on another topic a while back.. heres the link http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry389292 its a good topic.. gurfateh

thats it! vaheguruu

gurfateh ji, some of the questions that you have asked, are very hard to explain/cant be explained e.g. saram khand onwards. thats what bani says.(and from the gurmukhs that iv talked to.) Q. when we die, our souls are greeted by jaamdoots... if we are manmukhs, then we are beaten all the way to dharam khand... if we are gurmukhs, are we still greeted by jaamdoots? A. we are not greated by jumdoots, but angels. real true solid gurmukhs get taken on a paalki by angels, with the most heavenly of keertan being played and degh.(yes theres degh-karah prashaad!- in heaven!) and then when they get to dharam khand, which is like a waiting 'room' to go and get judged. there is bani where it is stated that the people that dont jup naam WITH THEIR TONGUE get spat on their face(thook mukh paeyya), while the gurmukhs are recognised from the tilak on their forhead, i.e. their kamai (-mathe jo likiyaas- in baaramaha maaj.) because the forhead is only of this world, we are made from mitti. as a side note, i have heard of munmukhs that die get dragged and questioned by the jamdoots. (before they even reach dharamraaj- due to i think dharam raaj sending these doots down to question him.) the description is very very graphic.and its a true story. within the last 1 to 5 years i think. (and the person did his 5 bania just as normal and basically, he was normal! cant remember if he was amritdhaari..) but he was questioned by these jamdoots. sant came and said 'let him go, he is ours, it is not his time.' he was questioned about his bad deeds in his past lives. we dont know what past baggage we are carrying! so do as much as you can is what i say! another thing, there is a sakhi i heard of guru naanak dev ji, it goes that there war a really bad person, and when he was about to die, this bad persons mates (2of them) were discussing what was going to happen to him. guru naanak dev ji heard them and said to bhai mardaana ji-watch!. guru naanak dev ji in an instant washed away his bad karam at the moment just before death. so these 2 mates that were discussing the bad persons fatestop talking and looked in the direction of the bad person. there were awe struck by what they saw. what had happened was that the jumdoots and the devi devte both came to collect him! the doots were saying he is ours and bound for hell due to his bad actions. the devi devte said, but he has no karam, he is ours. and the 2 mates were looking totally awe struck!(because guru naanak dev ji gave them the eyes to see this happen.--------funnily enough, i cant remember what happened to the person! >>a side observation, in this saakhi, the doots and the devis came here i.e. to this world, and the muslims say that on that spot where the peoson dies is where the weighings of good and baad happen. just a side point<< Q. In dharam khand, our deeds are read out by chit and gupt... and Dharam raaj passes his judgement.... Gurmuks are spared from this, since they have a sign on their foreheads... right? And based on the judgement, manmukhs are sent to hell and back to earth... A. i will start by telling you somthing that i am still reasearching and have not yet found. there are 5 files inside that one by one go and give the file of our life to dharam raaj. (btw, when our laikha is taken we dont have to say anything. we get read, hence the 5 files.) i imagine the files having feet and arms like in the movies! it helps with understanding!but this is so far a work in progress for me. maybe you can try to find out as well and then message me! but back to the question. from my reasearch, there are three main routes that can be taken from dharamraaj and a forth that is reserved for the best of souls. we live life and die and end up at dharamraajz door/desk. FIRST, if we have an excess of good deeds we go into heaven (for a while, then we get chucked back into charasi lakh joon), SECOND, if there is an excess of bad deeds, we go to hell and get proper chitthar and beats and then, we get chucked back into charasi lakh joon. THIRD, we just get chucked back into charasi lakh joon. BUT THE FOURTH, this is where we have no karam. naam washes away/destroys bad deeds and neutrilises good deeds. now. this is where dharamraaj doesnt know what to do, so you just walk through. (question arises of where does this person go.. il answer this in a bit...)......so you just walk through. dharamraaj cant do anything because the laikha is ripped. by the way, this is what sant mahapursh are so importent. they can pump you so much with naam and/or they use their own kamai to rip your your laikha. they can reset your slate. no pun. no paap. (paap pun doe ek samaan- sggs) this person that has no laikha goes past dharamraj and then get to see god. here is the end. another question comes of, where does he go from there? from what iv researched, he gets asked a question by god. god is so happy that he asks the question, oh my son, what do you wish?? from what iv researched, there are 3 possible answers. 1. ask for raaj. (kingship in the world) this is what aurangzeb asked from god when he got asked this question. but thats a different story. 2.ask for bhagti. (naam of the lord) this is what sant baba nand singh ji asked from god when they got asked this question from god. they then became a great (such a great!) bhagat. these 2 both end you up in the world again. but the third, 3. ask for charan kamal. (the feet of god) this is the true end. sehej anand. reunited...etc.. this is what it means by 'bees ikees' to mearge with, dissolve inside the 'forever one'. 'ikees'. ikees is a very hard word to translate... i will tell you now, this info is very very keemati and its taken so long for me to just know this!(so big, but so little when you compare it to infinity). so few people have figured this out, and even less understand it. i say, just do naam and all wil be answered! Q. The next realm is the gyaan khand for gurmukhs... This is where we are given divine knowledge right? But why is this realm not eternal? A. very good q dude! there comes a point in a persons avasta where he must leave everything, language, feelings, knoledge and the mind. all must be left behind, and then one will/must just go on naam. this is why, 'sggs- jun ki taek, har naam tekayyia.' even knowledge must be left behind to dissolve into the timeless lord. Q. Next is the saram khand... is it a prep khand before moving into the last two khands... What exactly happens here. A. as far as i know, this is where anand starts. this is why this place cannot be described.. hence to describe the ongoings of anand is very hard. thats it.. Q. NExt is karam khand... karam khand ki banee jor... why? why is banee jor here? why is it so close to sach khand but not sach khand? what happens here? A. in such khand (as well as this place), things cannot be described. thats why its hard to say what happens here. try describing a concept say... humility, then try describing a feeling say... intense love or even hate... hard init? so to describe somthing that is literally out of this world, is impossible. baani can be said to get you to this khand as this khand is the roop of bani. this khand looks like bani!.. as explained before, one must let everything go to get to god.this is why this khand is 'positioned' here. (it doesent say 'subh saump' for nothing!) and im sure that there are other reasons unknown to me regarding the positioning of the khands. that is a question in itself which i do not know.. i.e. >>why are the khands positioned the way they are<< ask a gurmukh though, and i bet they will say, somthing like, "do you ask why you have 2 eyes, or 2 arms/feet/legs/a boy....?" the simplt truth is that i truely cannot be explained because, once somthing is explained, it is explained. it is finished. it had ended. and god/baani/etc.. is beyant! endless! this endless-ness is described in the japji sahib. Q. And finally sach khand... Question... sach khand is where all gurmukhs go..and they will pass by all 4 khands on the way... meaning, no one will forever remain in saram khand, karam khand and gyan khand right? A.the world, this game will one day end. therefore, if the correct choices are made by people, and if they are not corrupted, (and alot of more ifs and buts..) then they will ultimately dissolve into god. as per their origional goal. if you didnt know, hel and heven are not at all perminant places.the only perminant place is with god. Q. question : where is dasam duar...? A. whre the 5 pyaare put the amrit in your head. where the top most part of your skull is. -sggs, sir oopar taada gur soora...- but be aware of this gat aswell! even this gate people can get stuck in!! -sggs, ik girhu das dwaar hai ja ke- through this doorway, is heaven and god. Q. All this has something to do with a concept of Third Eye.. what is this comcept.? A. the concept of the third eye exists. (just because its in hinduism dont hake it wrong..) it is in the middle of the forehead (people commonly mistake this as the dasam dwaar.) guru tells people, yogis mainly, to stop concentrating on the left and right nerves (forgot to tell you that theres 3 'nerves' in the center of the forhead. they have been named accordingly.. left, right and center. the center, is the sukhmana, the left and right are ida and pingula) which is why, i think, that the swami dude raamdev does that weird thing with the nose... guru says forget the left and right buisness and concentrate on the center. it is in gurbani..can find it 4 u. the whole and main idea is that you concentrate with your surti, because it is your surti that is going to(if your lucky!) mearge/dissolve with god. -sggs, subh surti mil surat kamai- i hope i have sufficiently answered your qz.. gurfateh singho.. we should meet u no! iv been wanting a sollid conversation with a person for a while! and so sorry for the massive post. the surperb questions are to blame! gurfateh ji...

gurfateh jeeo, i didnt want to post on this topic, because this shabad is too beautiful. i wish to add another thing to this beauty. another shabad metaphore that is just too beautiful. its comming up to a month since i found it. it is so beautiful what i found that i didnt want to post it up here. it is so dear to my heart. but i thought, lets post a hint. so here it is. we should all aim to be ducks. i know it is weird! but thats the intent! i wish to keep it 'gupt' but i feel that since it came to my mind, i should post at least somthing.. it always gets me.the shabad. its just saram sehej. thats the only way i can describe the feeling i get. anyway. gurfateh.

ok so these are 2 separate stories then. the basket on gurujis (or not rather) head; and the stone mill.. when are their timelines? which came first?? and what were gurujio doing before these incidents? like, how did the mughals 'stumble' upon gurujis rock basket kautak?

chance of an english translation? duno how to do it...

Hmm that is very interesting. That makes a lot more sense than simply saying Ghar = number of beats. This reminded me of the time when a more learnt tabla player was teaching me about tali khali when teaching tabla theory to me. It ended up with me looking like the weirdo who was clapping in darbar sahib :$ I have also not heard names of a lot of these taal's before. Amazed by the number of beats some taals have as well, 47 beats! I can't even being to imagine what the theka must look/sound like...This fuels the fire inside me that really wants to learn Gurmat Sangeet...hopefully I will be able to soon because you need a lot of stamina and power to sing loudly and play properly; this body is only getting older and weaker... Where did you get the information? Is there a website? hi, yup i did get this info from a web site. it is in most of the books. its pretty common knoledge in indian carnatic music... (search Ghar Taal in google you shound be able to find it.) before i go any further on explaining raag and clasical music, i wish to direct you to another post that i made a while back. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=41512 go to this topic, you should scrool down to my post and read it as there i have explained what the raag and the whole piont of raag/taal/sur... etc, iv explained what that all is for. so.. it is good to have the giaan of raag, (but not get lost in it so you cant hear the naad of the shabad anymore.) each taal is played vilampat, mudh, or drut. it had a specific speed setting, hence the beauty arises. iv heard a 40 matra taal being played and i know a 9 beat, 11 beat, and have heard 5 and 3/4 beat, 5 and 1/2 beat, and, 7 and 1/2 beat taal. thay are really nice. i was going to learn a shabad in 5 and half beat taal. but it never fell through due to specific reasons regarding ma teacher. bhai avtar singh and also.... bhai chattar singh were proficient in these types of shabads. for me, i now personally think that all these elaborate taals for the shabads may distract ppl from the main take home message and may hinder an increase in avasta. but. gurmat sangeet is a gem which needs to be learnt. one would think that since it is in our guru granth sahib, the ghar things, then the information should be widely taught. but this is not the case. people still want to say iam better than you and show off, rather than teach you about the raag and taal. so i wish you good luck on your journey into raag and taal, but be prepared to be short-changed. the gems of raag and taal are kept locked away and alot must be done to convince the people that know it to teach you those gems. hope this helps.. gurfateh

gurfateh jeeo, fromm what i remember, i thought that guru naanak dev ji went to the kitchen and started to make the chaki (the grinder) float, and not only his own, but all the other chakis as well, then thats wen guru naanak dev ji got called in????? its just that i am a bit unsure. i havent been refreshing my mind with the history.. thanks jeeo.

that tuk does not mean that you can enjoy that daily. the take home message is one that says that stay pure and truthful. dont look at other people, i.e. only 1 wife. and where does it say anything bout sex in that tuk? it could mean that you and her get closer i.e. the main reason for the laavaa. oneness..but anyway.. i dont wish to debate this bit further.. and bout the beast comment, i wish to say, guru says that, and not me. i am no one to say that. gauVI mhlw 5 ] gourree mehalaa 5 | Gauree, Fifth Mehl: Aink rsw Kwey jYsy For ] anik rasaa khaaeae jaisae tor | Like beasts, they consume all sorts of tasty treats. ------------------------ kwm hyiq kuMcru lY PWikE Ehu pr vis BieE ibcwrw ] kaam haeth kunchar lai faakiou ouhu par vas bhaeiou bichaaraa | Lured by sexual desire, the elephant is trapped; the poor beast falls into the power of another. (and falls away from God) nwd hyiq isru fwirE kurMkw aus hI hyq ibdwrw ]2] naadh haeth sir ddaariou kurankaa ous hee haeth bidhaaraa |2| Lured by the sound of the hunter's bell, the deer offers its head; because of this enticement, it is killed. ||2|| ELEPHANT referes to beast/ the uncontrolled one. -------------------- gurmiq suin kCu igAwnu n aupijE psu ijau audru Brau ] guramath sun kash giaan n oupajiou pas jio oudhar bharo | I listened to the Guru's Teachings, but spiritual wisdom did not well up within me; like a beast, I fill my belly. -------------------- i think the point is made.. sex is a beautiful thing. i would preffer if you would read the whole or my post. i did say sex was beautiful. but it is bastadyzed by kaam and uncontrolled people. please try to understand my posting, and not just parts pf it. thank u.. AND MAYBE YOU SHOULD take more care in what you write and accuse without knowing the sources of the remarks... >>>>>>>>>>>> in my experience it is the perverted ones who go around condeming and sentencing everyone to hell, because they only see in others the same darkness that torments them <<<<<<<<<<<< and to k singhni, vaheguru. it is guru that has said all that about sex. in sahaskriti M5.. he kaamang narak bisraamang....etc... gurfateh jeeoz

gurfateh jeeoz Radhacharan Das, you have a beautiful name!! it touches me. but this aside. you have a lot of questions. 1. our soul is from god, it is our job to merge that soul with god/ find a way to merge this soul with god. in doing so, we ourselves dissolve into god, in one sense we do become god, but mroe correctly, we mearge/dissolve into god. just as a grain of salt dissolves in the crystal clear water and is indistinguishable with the water, so do we dissolve and become one with god. the naad is what we dissolve into. the vibration. as far as my understanding goes(even i havent understood this metephor fully) god is the vibration that the entire srist is standing on. this is what we are supposed to vibrate on through becoming spiritually charged. i hope this answers your first 2 questions of >becoming god< , and whether we >loose our individuality<. 2. how the 'separation' happened. swcy qy pvnw BieAw pvnY qy jlu hoie ] saachae thae pavanaa bhaeiaa pavanai thae jal hoe | From the True Lord came the air, and from the air came water. jl qy iqRBvxu swijAw Git Git joiq smoie ] jal thae thribhavan saajiaa ghatt ghatt joth samoe | From water, He created the three worlds; in each and every heart He has infused His Light. inrmlu mYlw nw QIAY sbid rqy piq hoie ]3] niramal mailaa naa theeai sabadh rathae path hoe |3| The Immaculate Lord does not become polluted. Attuned to the Shabad, honor is obtained. ||3|| after creating the world, god created the air (hydrogen and oxygen) then came the water (H2O) then came the 'three worlds', then life. in this life, god installed his jot/light inside all. without the light of god installed, the body becomes a corpse. i.e. dead, therefore, all life have the light of god. this is the GAME of god. so as he wishes the world to be/ come about, so it will. i look at this as god taking a part of himself and installing it in us. this is how we come into this world. once we are here, born in this world, somtimes even still in the womb(smokers/alcoholics), we get polluted and maya pulls the wool/curtian over us. this is how much maya has grown. it gets you very early on. maya is an entity that is also created by god. from what i remember, maya is an entity that wishes to get emancipated as well but, because this is gods GAME, he made it so that maya cant earn any naam itself. it must therefore steel from the week minded and so on.. but, one day, maya will get emancipated as well, that will be the end of kaljug, (then satjug forever from what i remember). god cannot get tainted, hence we must clense ourselves before we can unite with god. (we got tainted in the first place by temptation with maya.) from the lord through the void came the word, then air, water... so on... ether comes in it somehere.. forgot where... god has not 'tricked' us into anything but god tests us throught the temptation of maya leading us away from the path to god,therfore making it harder for us to unite into infinity/god, to see if we stay steadfast. god has gave us the power of choice, this is what separates us from the animals and stops us from being beasts. therefore, he wants to see, if we choose temptation over his light that he has installed in us. over time due to giving into temptation, people become "blind to the light". (this phrase i feel explains the thing best). this being blind to the light/themselves/god gives rise to evil.(from within the the person himself). god is beyond all. he is the TIMELESS LORD OF THE WORLD. vah. muslims frequently say/dont understand that how god can be nirgun and sargun. (i had a debate with an imaam, and won. he was all about converting..) this nirgun and sargun virtue means that god can be formless and take form. i.e. he is in all. and he surpasses all, ALL duality. even good and bad! iv written an article about nirgun and sargun. anyway. the maya origination is explained as per above.. the light if god is taintless. it is impossible to put a black spot on that light. the dirt from lifetimes of bad deeds have obscured that light to us. it stands in the way of enlightenment. it has been said by high up spiritual people that the dorway to heaven is thinner than an onion skin. but because of all the dirt stuck and solidified on the thin film, we find it hard to see the light. this whole world is a wanderous play.thats it.. as stated above, after kaljug, satjug will be forever due to the etrenal guru. hope iv answered your qz jeeo. i hope you foward this knoledge to the sikhs that dont know it. they may just be impresed if they hear this from a hindu! :lol: . gurfateh

perhaps some scientists believe that but they are not in the majority. the whole point of the word universe is that it covers everything. so all these other "universes" would be part of the one and only universe. this 2 part vid explains the multiple universe, aka 'the multiverse'. such a beautiful name. the leading science experiments and theories are very very similar in nature of what our bani describes, but our bani goes that extra 'mile' (so to speak). the major theory is M theory. i have spent my time in reasearching this theory and learning this theory. it is a remarkable theory. it can be thought to be the uniting theory of our universe. anyway, those of us that are slightly scientifically illiterate may find it hard to follow the explaination. other such models include the brane worlds. it is really very intriguing. i frequently say that when the chance arose for the question of 'what is that?' science looked outward, and religon looked inwards. i personally feel that science and religon will come around and meet each other and then science will say, 'oh yea! ok ur right!' to religon. anyway. gurfateh you have a right to your beliefs, but i believe in future it will be religion that says 'oh yea! ok ur right!' to science. this is a logical conclusion if you project the progress of science compared religion and the ever decreasing following of religion in the world. out of interest you say that when science and religion meet, which religion are you referring to there? or all are you referring to all religions? hi, first, i do not refer to any particular religon, nor all religons. i know sikhi the best out of the other ones which i know about, islam and hinduism, so it is the concepts that sikhi/ religon has, that science will yer come to terms with. second, which beliefs are you reffering to that i have stated, that you say i have a right to? my belief is in god, however, i did not state in the above post anything to do with belief. i only stated FACTUAL cutting edge science. so you (as i take it) a man/woman of science, rather than being in a mind state not counteracting religon, is the best way to go. i wish to say that there is a general comfort in knowing what we understand and a general insecurity, instability if you will, in believing in somthing that we cannot understand, i.e. god. there are so many things that i love about science and religon. Dr. Michio Kaku had once stated that a theology of the universe is more important than the numbers game. i.e. the way i see it, is that religon has the mass potential to see or give the template, of the universe. though it is a minority, people have said a spiritual based science has the most profound of implications if it can be harnessed. i agree with them. i wish to pick up on your seemingly mindful and logical approach to your conclusion. you seem to be judging god through the flaws of religon and, by the amount of followers that religon has (may i add, for some bizzare reason). going by this seemingly seemless logic, if the minority of a given population disagree with the truth, then the truth will disappear. just because you have speculated that religon is depleting in its numbers, then religon is somehow made less importent/worthy in its own right. the truth is the truth no matter how many people believe it, or not. finaly science, by definition, is the explaination of phenomena. religon, is attempting to describe the unfathomable, while saying alongside, it is infinite. this is god. this is the start of the (so called) now-a-day religons. (obviously setting aside the ill intents of people conjunctive to using god to justify these actions). as a side note, there is a maths that has been devloped, (which i am trying to scrupulously further) that proves that it is possible to unite singularity with infinity. this is very cutting edge, quite amasing and amazingly simple to start with.. but anyway. this unification of singularity to infinity is in religon. in sikhi. so herein lies why religon/sikhi will have the upper hand and science will always be saying 'oh yea! ok ur right!' to religon. i love science because of its nature of the hunger for information. it does it in such an innocent way. science is like the most formidable hunter, with the onset of the innocence of prey. but anyway. i personally think that you (geo) are somone that wishes to circle in endless debate for no sake but glory, power maybe?. by all means you can do that. but just do that within your own self. (if you do have a golden brain-not that im saying u said that-, you will have just realised that i have just told you to go and meditate! all your questions are not that 'big'. you yourself can and will find the answers. if you choose to not do this, then you really do wish to mislead people and try to win 'debates' with people and claim justification, and again stability if you will, within yourself.) search within yourself for your answers. if you dont understand somthing still, go to guru and do ardaas. search within yourself, use morals and common sense, and your instinct to guide you. listen to your self.. i hope you see that i am not having a go at you, i feel that this is the best way for you, and everyone else. so others dont feel you misguide other people, and so you get your answers. it is common sense that actions that lack self control, or feed desire, are wrong. and it will lead you down the wrong path. i say this in response to your 'homosexuality' post. go towards god. thats it. i wish to dissolve this discussion so.. happy reading. gurfateh

oh. i c. thanks for the heads up. ( btw, this is not sarkastic.. :umm: ) but anyway, i like a good debate :rolleyes: . i like to see how people think and how far they will go to prove their point and if they listen to others and logic (as per gurmat...) which other site thing had the modsclosed? wana read it..