Pyara

Watching Sikh Channel yesterday and Baba Baljit Singh DaduSahib Walay mentioned that they will be attending the samagam.

It stems down to a feeling of collective ownership and responsibility. I think we Sikhs are lacking this at the moment. In general, I believe that the majority of us feel we have little influence in our dharmic decisions and therefore opt out from doing anything constructive for our kaum. At present we have too many "Cheifs and not enough Indians", under this false pretence the Sikhs think (or lazily assume that) there is a competent leadership structure that will deal with our issues. The truth is we currently have no representation at a Governing level, no Global influence and little energy/will power to combat any direct attacks on the Kaum. We have many self appointed Jathedars and groups who travel the world claiming to represent Sikhs, but they don't deliver and seem great at diverting our attention from the real problems. In my view there's no point in a Takht, a Dal, a Taksaal, a Samparda, a Jatha, a Committee if all they do is generate countless excuses to not address issues in the kaum.

Fair enough, if you want to stand away from the organisation it's your choice. But tell me, who else is bothering to do something for many of the forgotten issues in the Sikh community and even non Sikh community. I have been around the block a bit and one thing I can say is that when it comes to raising the profile of Sikh philanthropic issues, we have been embarrassingly limp. Whilst the Gurdwara committee raise £millions for building funds, very few Sikhs or Organisation appear bothered about rerouting the sangats daswand to real worthwhile causes. I have come across some great Mahapurshs who do some excellent sewa, I have seen their sewa with my own eyes and yet our own Sikhs won't contribute to these great humanitarian projects because of a difference in opinions or prejudices against the Maharpursh/group. Sometimes I think it's just an excuse to not contribute anything!!!!

Some intereseting research on the website, perhaps not presented in the best way. I feel no reason to not believe that Maharaj would have travelled the length and breath of the whole world and beyond! Some of the evidence put forward is really interesting such as Guru Nanak Devji in Uganda, Mombasa etc. The links to Bhai Makhan Shah Lubana's ancestory is really interesting too.

Good points above. Theres no point always attacking the "corrupt" committees.....I think many of us still feel a lack of responsibility in the Guru Ghar or Sikhi in general. We are pained by "beadbi" but wait for some super A-team to come sweep up any mess. Picture this scenario, some random little toddler knocks a glass of water over in the langar hall. What would other Sikhs sitting in the langar hall do? A) Leave it and wait for some official sewadar/someone to clean up the mess B) Have a go at the toddler for the accident and find his mother, father, grandmother and blame them too C)Get up and mop the spillage up ourselves as it is our responsiblity. Understand that small accidents happen and it was not intentional How many of us would fall into category C? I think the majority of people could quite happily be an A and others would like to be a B. How many of us just dump our joothay panday in the Gurdwara sink and wait for someone else to wash up? How many of us just walk past a full sink of dirty patilay in the Gurdwara kitchen? How many of us complain about the stale smell in Gurdwara toilets but never do anything to help clean up those toilets? Nothing changes if we still feel no reponsibilty to our Guru ghars. If we can't even wash the dirty panday how can we wipe out the filth know as the caste issue.

The words of a true Shaheed. We are really privileged to have archives like one of Bhai Sahibs final public speeches to inspire nikamay like me. Don't waste it. We need to watch and take in these recordings of our mahan Gursikhs to move forward. We have to know the past to understand the present and get some direction for the future!

This looks like a really beneficial workshop. Please share some of the discussions with us UKwalay, especially the discussions with Bibi Ji. Thanks

The only way to uproot the "pendu pauna" committee culture is to vote them out. However, we arent actively encouraged to vote for our local Gurdwara committees and are pretty lame at putting ourselves forward. Anyone can become a voting member of their Gurdwara, all they need to be is over 18, live in a specific postal code area. In some cases the backward committees like the Ramgharia Sardars may ask you to prove your Ramgharia bloodline by asking for your surname history. Obtaining voting power is an old trick of the corrupt committee politics, where they have a healthy supply of pre-arranged voters. If we were a bit more strategic in our thinking we could have blocked their corrupt power years ago by developing our own supply of panthic thinking voters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-11182497 Explosion at Hare Krishna temple in Leicester Worshippers are believed to be trapped after an explosion and fire at a Hare Krishna temple in Leicester. A third of the terraced property on Thoresby Street has been destroyed and is too unstable for crews to enter. Specialist rescue teams and equipment, including search dogs and thermal imaging cameras, are being used to establish if any casualties are inside. A wide cordon is in place around the building, which is still on fire, according to eyewitnesses. A spokeswoman for Leicestershire Fire Service confirmed they have had reports people were inside the temple at the time of the blast.

I find the Sikh colour debate a strange circular argument....and see little benefit in this argument. Paintings of Guru Sahibs are artists impressions and more than often confuse Sikhs. There are paintings of our Guru sahibs with ear rings, topis, tilaks, wearing colours such as green (which surely more "islamic" than black or blue) and red which are can be contradictory to Sikhi. I think these arguments stem from marginalising individual groups within the Kaum who may adopt a certain colour as their uniform, such as black by the original Akali Dals, blue by the Nihang Dal and white by the Sant Sampardas. What about the current soldiers of various armies wear khaki or green as part of their uniform? As an individual, I personally see little issue in the colour worn despite being dragged down by other individuals who like to have a pop at dastar colours. As a disciple of my Guru I feel privileged and blessed to wear my Black, Blue, White, Orange and even... Khaki, Brown, Beige, Yellow, Grey dastar... Funnily enough, when I see a whole group of Muslim men standing outside the mosque all dressed in white from head to toe and I remember a heated debate I got myself into with an elder Sikh in Soho Road Gurdwara because I wore a blue bana ...he was adament that blue is the colour of islam and white is the colour of the Khalsa, strangely enough I have never seen a muslim wearing blue to the mosque.

Ah memories...The infamous "Pawan" became a doctor. I think the family now live in Chigwel, Essex.

Old Article from Sep 2006, 4 years ago... http://www.panthic.org/articles/2752 IF VEDANTI CAN'T TAKE ACTION AGAINST CHELA RAM, HE SHOULD RESIGN: SHABAAZ KHALSA PANTHIC WEEKLY NEWS BUREAU | Published on September 13, 2006 Amritsar Sahib (KP) The panthic organization, Shahbaaz Khalsa, has asked Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti to tender his resignation if he cannot be impartial in his duties as a Jathedar. Shahbaaz Khalsa sevadars requested that if the Jathedar was having difficulty making decisions because of political influence from special interests, he should give up his much-respected Panthic position and return home. Speaking at a press conference Bhai Sukhmander Singh, and Bhai Nirmaljeet Singh and others collectively expressed anguish and stated that they had brought to the attention of Jathedar Vedanti the ongoing beadbi [gross disrespect]of Guru Granth Sahib Ji being committed by Chela Ram. They had supplied the Jathedar all the necessary evidence and details one year earlier. In addition, they had recently reminded Vedanti that the beadbi was still being committed by Chela Ram, but there has been no action taken by Vedanti while the disrespect of Guru Granth Sahib Ji continues unabated. They stated that not only has their petition highlighting the misdeeds of Chela Ram been ignored by Joginder Singh Vedanti, but that on July 30th in an unprecedented act, two responsible workers of the Shiromani Committee, President Avtar Singh Makkar and Secretary Harbeant Singh were honored by the very same Chela Ram. Shahbaaz Khalsa has asked Akal Takhat Sahib to relieve these two individuals of their duties without further delay and give them the strictest punishments. The three representatives of Shahbaaz Khalsa detailed that along with the prakash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, statues of Hindu gods were also being displayed by Chela Ram. Another shocking revelation they made was that Chela Ram and his devotees, following in the footsteps of Bhaniraywala, have another granth from which they take a Hukamnama which is placed alongside Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This granth is said to be written by the ancestors of Chela Ram in praise of themselves. They said that this is an enormous attack on Sikhi by Chela Ram. Meanwhile, he has also opened three deras in Delhi, Solan, and Mumbai. The Delhi dera is being run by Chela Ram himself, while his Solan dera and Mumbai deras are run by his daughter Radhika and his son respectively. Along with damaging Sikhi, they are also doing the beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Shabaaz Khalsa representatives said that they have also brought several other similar cases to the attention of Vedanti but they have yet to receive a satisfactory response.

Very helpful. Any news on when Amrit Bani TV are expected to launch on SKY? They seem to have had a presence at the last few large samagams.

India Media "summarising" all their recent reports. Any Sikh hater's going to love this summary.. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/unease-in-punjab-again/675637/1 http://www.indianexpress.com/news/unease-in-punjab-again/675637/2 http://www.indianexpress.com/news/unease-in-punjab-again/675637/3 Unease in Punjab again Harpreet Bajwa Posted: Wed Sep 01 2010, 01:14 hrs Chandigarh: Intelligence Bureau Director Rajiv Mathur’s warning last week against the attempt by “outside agencies” to forge a nexus between Sikh separatist outfits and organisations like the Lashkar-e-Toiba comes on the back of a year of increased militant activity in Punjab and abroad. Security forces have detected a worrying trend. They say that there are serious efforts by the old timers, who had been lying dormant over the years, to revive militancy and that they are in touch with their mentors abroad. Intelligence sources say that about 300 militants mainly belonging to separatist groups like Babbar Khalsa International (BKI), Khalistan Commando Force, Khalistan Zindabad Force, are operating from Germany, Pakistan, France, Switzerland, the UK and Denmark. There are reports that joint efforts by the BKI and LeT have led to militants being sent for training to Pakistan through Nepal, Malaysia and Thailand. TERROR ABROAD In a daring strike by militants belonging to the Khalistan Zindabad Force (KZF), Sant Ramanand of Dera Sachkhand was shot dead inside a gurdwara in Vienna May last year. Six of the accused are now facing trial in local court in the Austrian capital. The Vienna police also foiled an attack on G S Dhillon, chief of Radha Soami Dera earlier this month when they detained four KZF members ahead of the planned strike. Later two KZF members were arrested by the German Police in the same connection. ANOTHER DERA TARGET Lilly Kumar a supporter of Dera Sacha Sauda was gunned down in July last year at Mansa by BKI militants and two militants were later arrested in connection with the case. In August, Balbir Singh Bhootana, owing allegiance to Khalistan Commando Force and Babbar Khalsa International, was arrested after an operation at the Ludhiana Railway Station. Allegedly the mastermind behind the killing of Lilly Kumar, he later admitted to planning the murder and providing ammunition to one Makhan Singh, another terrorist arrested in the Kumar case. THE UK TRAIL The killing of Rulda Singh of Rashtriya Sikh Sangat at his home in Grain Market in Patiala by BKI militants last July threw up a trail going all the way to the UK. With the Punjab police working closely with their counterparts in the UK, the West Midlands Police arrested four persons on suspicion of murdering Singh. The accused, all British nationals, were detained in Wolverhampton, Coventry and Smethwick, near Birmingham. Gursharan Bir and Pyara Singh were suspected to have fired the shots while Paramjit Pamma was the mastermind of the entire plot. “Bir had travelled to India on a forged passport of another co-accused Amritbir Singh to execute the alleged murder,” said a police official. GUN AND DRUG RUNNING A string of arms and drug seizures revealed a pattern of clandestine funding activities. In September last year police had arrested three militants, including two who had gone to Rajasthan to procure a weapons consignment to be used for terrorist activities in Punjab. A drug peddler, Sode Khan was arrested and forty eight kgs of smuggled heroin worth Rs 48 crore in the global market and more then half a dozen 9 mm pistols were seized from him in Barmer in Jaisalmer district by the Rajasthan Anti-Terrorism Squad. Khan confessed that the weapons and drugs were meant for the BKI operating in Punjab. Besides, two attempts were made to explode bombs in Nabha and Halwara by the Khalistan Liberation Force militants but they failed to explode. Two kilograms of RDX was found in a car abandoned near a busy Railway Station in Amritsar in May. It had two packets of explosives in the car with a detonator, two nine volt batteries, three meters of wiring and an LPG cylinder. In July this year Harminder Singh, the main accused in the Shingar cinema blast case in Ludhiana, was arrested by the Khanna Police. Singh was the mastermind of the October 2007 blast that claimed seven lives and left more then 31 people injured. Intelligence sources revealed that he had been hiding in Pakistan and Nepal and organising terrorist activities in India. He had received funds to the tune of lakhs from Pakistan and England besides a few other European countries. Explosives and ammunition apart from a fake voter ID card were recovered from him. Nearly two months ago, two Lashkar-e-Toiba militants were gunned down by the police in Gurdaspur district on their way to J-K, according to intelligence sources. A policeman was also killed in the encounter. Punjab DGP P S Gill said confirmed the rise in militant activities. “During the last year we have busted several terrorist modules and have arrested militants, seized arms and explosives and have foiled attempts to disrupt peace.”

India Media "summarising" all their recent reports. Any Sikh hater's going to love this summary.. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/unease-in-punjab-again/675637/1 http://www.indianexpress.com/news/unease-in-punjab-again/675637/2 http://www.indianexpress.com/news/unease-in-punjab-again/675637/3 Unease in Punjab again Harpreet Bajwa Posted: Wed Sep 01 2010, 01:14 hrs Chandigarh: Intelligence Bureau Director Rajiv Mathur’s warning last week against the attempt by “outside agencies” to forge a nexus between Sikh separatist outfits and organisations like the Lashkar-e-Toiba comes on the back of a year of increased militant activity in Punjab and abroad. Security forces have detected a worrying trend. They say that there are serious efforts by the old timers, who had been lying dormant over the years, to revive militancy and that they are in touch with their mentors abroad. Intelligence sources say that about 300 militants mainly belonging to separatist groups like Babbar Khalsa International (BKI), Khalistan Commando Force, Khalistan Zindabad Force, are operating from Germany, Pakistan, France, Switzerland, the UK and Denmark. There are reports that joint efforts by the BKI and LeT have led to militants being sent for training to Pakistan through Nepal, Malaysia and Thailand. TERROR ABROAD In a daring strike by militants belonging to the Khalistan Zindabad Force (KZF), Sant Ramanand of Dera Sachkhand was shot dead inside a gurdwara in Vienna May last year. Six of the accused are now facing trial in local court in the Austrian capital. The Vienna police also foiled an attack on G S Dhillon, chief of Radha Soami Dera earlier this month when they detained four KZF members ahead of the planned strike. Later two KZF members were arrested by the German Police in the same connection. ANOTHER DERA TARGET Lilly Kumar a supporter of Dera Sacha Sauda was gunned down in July last year at Mansa by BKI militants and two militants were later arrested in connection with the case. In August, Balbir Singh Bhootana, owing allegiance to Khalistan Commando Force and Babbar Khalsa International, was arrested after an operation at the Ludhiana Railway Station. Allegedly the mastermind behind the killing of Lilly Kumar, he later admitted to planning the murder and providing ammunition to one Makhan Singh, another terrorist arrested in the Kumar case. THE UK TRAIL The killing of Rulda Singh of Rashtriya Sikh Sangat at his home in Grain Market in Patiala by BKI militants last July threw up a trail going all the way to the UK. With the Punjab police working closely with their counterparts in the UK, the West Midlands Police arrested four persons on suspicion of murdering Singh. The accused, all British nationals, were detained in Wolverhampton, Coventry and Smethwick, near Birmingham. Gursharan Bir and Pyara Singh were suspected to have fired the shots while Paramjit Pamma was the mastermind of the entire plot. “Bir had travelled to India on a forged passport of another co-accused Amritbir Singh to execute the alleged murder,” said a police official. GUN AND DRUG RUNNING A string of arms and drug seizures revealed a pattern of clandestine funding activities. In September last year police had arrested three militants, including two who had gone to Rajasthan to procure a weapons consignment to be used for terrorist activities in Punjab. A drug peddler, Sode Khan was arrested and forty eight kgs of smuggled heroin worth Rs 48 crore in the global market and more then half a dozen 9 mm pistols were seized from him in Barmer in Jaisalmer district by the Rajasthan Anti-Terrorism Squad. Khan confessed that the weapons and drugs were meant for the BKI operating in Punjab. Besides, two attempts were made to explode bombs in Nabha and Halwara by the Khalistan Liberation Force militants but they failed to explode. Two kilograms of RDX was found in a car abandoned near a busy Railway Station in Amritsar in May. It had two packets of explosives in the car with a detonator, two nine volt batteries, three meters of wiring and an LPG cylinder. In July this year Harminder Singh, the main accused in the Shingar cinema blast case in Ludhiana, was arrested by the Khanna Police. Singh was the mastermind of the October 2007 blast that claimed seven lives and left more then 31 people injured. Intelligence sources revealed that he had been hiding in Pakistan and Nepal and organising terrorist activities in India. He had received funds to the tune of lakhs from Pakistan and England besides a few other European countries. Explosives and ammunition apart from a fake voter ID card were recovered from him. Nearly two months ago, two Lashkar-e-Toiba militants were gunned down by the police in Gurdaspur district on their way to J-K, according to intelligence sources. A policeman was also killed in the encounter. Punjab DGP P S Gill said confirmed the rise in militant activities. “During the last year we have busted several terrorist modules and have arrested militants, seized arms and explosives and have foiled attempts to disrupt peace.”

Primarily, I agree with your posting above.... However, I think naturally there are always "negatives" and we need to highlight them so that they can be addressed. If we look at it this way, if everything were negative, you would never know what positive was. If everything were positive, you would never know what negative was. Its all about learning how one affects the other, and how we can use this information for the growth of the Kaum. This growth cannot be achieved without the knowledge and wisdom of both. I don't think being critical of the Sikh media means we are bringing our specific Sikh brotherhood down. When we look at the media tool in today's society we need to realise that whoever controls the media, controls the mind. Dare I say it...but the media today is the most powerful entity on earth as it has the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent...and that's power. Couple the power of media with a religious ethos and you have some seriously strong influence which can shape society. If not managed appropriately, relgious media can be a dangerous tool. Just because something is labelled Sikh, does that mean that we should not question it or point out issues with it? We can see it as negativity or constructive criticism with the intentions of improving our own media, so that we correctly project the Sikh image and way of life....just my 2 pennies worth..

The issue of the Gurdwara protocol of "non-Sikh" Sikh Channel employees has already been raised with the Sikh Channel following the conduct/dress code of the non-Sikh employess at the Prakash 2010 Samagam and Ramgharia Gurdwara Coventry. Please advise us all on the Sikh Channel response (if any).

In response to the article below 'SGPC gives nod to print Guru Granth Sahib in foreign countries'. Are we really in a situation where we need to print Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's pavitar Saroops in the West? From my experiences in the UK many Guru ghars have the situation where they have ended up with "surplus" Saroops and there have been situations where they do not even have the space in the Sachkhand to look after the Saroops. If a similar situation exists in North America, wouldn't it be better that we do the sewa of the current pavitar saroops rather then think about printing new saroops? http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/sgpc-gives-nod-print-guru-granth-sahib-foreign-countries/23458 SGPC gives nod to print Guru Granth Sahib in foreign countries Punjab Newsline Network Tuesday, 31 August 2010 AMRITSAR: Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee president Avtar Singh has decided to allow printing of the holy Guru Granth Sahib and other Gurmat literature in foreign countries. He said efforts were on to identify suitable land in the USA and Canada for setting up publishing centres and run them as per the Rehat Maryada (Sikh code of conduct). He said the decision to print Sikh holy books out of the country as well was taken following persistent requests from the Sikh Sangat residing there. The five Sikh high priests had in one of their edicts prohibited printing of the Guru Granth Sahib and other scriptures by any organisation other than the SGPC. Hence, the SGPC sends the Guru Granth Sahib and Gurmat literature to the Sikh Sangat abroad by air and sea. However, maintaining of Maryada during travel was an arduous task, which is why the SGPC has decided to set up publishing centres overseas. Avtar Singh also said that earnest efforts would be made to extend support to the Sikh community in the Kashmir valley living in a state of trepidation.

Excellent step forward regarding the above UK issues! Hopefully, something is formalised sooner rather than later. The impact of the approach will be greater if it's lead by prominent Guru ghars like Smethwick.

Is it me, but I don't remember many fires at Gurdwaras/Sikh Buildings in the West in my whole life as there seem to have been in the last 2 or 3 years?? Anyone from the area know more about the fire.. Is it too early to find the cause?

Ofcourse Ji! :BL: In the words of Winston Churchill: “Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.”

The Sikh TV's charity status may be a better business model than Sikh Channel for sustainability. For transparency, who are the main guys behind the channel?

If emailing, phoning, working for, meeting the Sikh Channel would actually materialise into anything positive then don't you think it 's been done by now. Have you been sworn at by Davinder Bal yet? Has any of your conversations with Sikh Channel actually been heard? Have you even managed to get to speak to someone who is actually Sikh at the Sikh Channel and not some East European or tamil researcher? Ask yourself where all the original Sikh staff, sewadars, supporters have gone. Why is the Sikh Channel stuck with these few politically rejected presenters? Everyone bangs on about supporting the Sikh Channel, just because it's the only "Sikh Channel". But why cant anyone see it's a channel controlled by one person (Davinder Bal and the Bal clan), if anyone wants to know about him you can google him and see his business interests and any investigations carried out against him. He's one heck of a good businessman! Like our Gurdwara prabhandaks, all the Davinder Bal has mastered is getting the sangat to make contributions by putting them on emotional guilt trips should they not contribute. And again the sangat are niave enough to not ask for any transparency. Who's seen the last few months of the Sikh Channel's accounts? I can't find it anywhere.... I think its time for Davinder Bal and Jas Bal and other key Bal's from their management should do a live phone in question and answer session on the Sikh Channel for sangat to ask them questions like (these have already been asked of them) how come his other channel Brit Asia never has any concerns about funding? Given that Sikh Channel is pleading poverty for the channel please explain how the costs of Britasia TV (sky 833) are being met? If Sikh Channel is receiving donations, sponsorship and money from adverts but is still struggling financially, then how is Britasia TV financed? Why is it costing them in the region of £50,000 per month to run the Sikh Channel when it costs other Asian channels in the region of £35,000-£40,000 per month? Below are actual estimated monthly running costs of running a satellite channel. Compare to the £50,000 demanded by Sikh Channel: EPG: Rental of EPG £500.00 Skys charges to broadcast on their network £8,000.00 Satellite Costs:£25.000.00 Total: £33,500.00 If Sikhi is paramount to the Bal brothers, why dont they sell Britasia TV and invest that money back in the Sikh Channel? Sikh Channel are claiming that they channel is costing them in the region of £50,000 per month, this means that Britasia would be costing them this much too. Taking the total to £100,000 per month. In order to save the £50,000 surely they need to prioritise and knock Britasia on the head. Wouldnt this show how much the bal brother vaule the Sikh Channel? Britasia TV is playing bhangra music and bholyan and is running under the very roof where Shabad, Kirtan is being recited. Britasia TV consists of half dressed females, offensive lyrics including those that are unsuitable in a family environment such as about alcohol, gigs, drugs. If the Sikh Channel was based on Sikh principles, I don't think anyone would have a problem with the content of their programmes.

Any katha/vichaar of Baba Joginder Singh scheduled on the Sikh Channel?

Regardless of who comes on as a guest on the channel. I really think they need some charismatic presenters for the TV shows/discussions show. They seem to be suffering from the "gurdwara stage secretary" way of presenting these programmes. Dhesi comes accross rude, Joga looks like he wants to cry, Rana spend 1 hr bigging anything and anyone up, Dr Sadhu is ok-ish.