Jangal Da

Waheguru!!!!! I welcome the Gurmata. Dasam granth and Sarabloh granths have their places in our history, liturgy and lives, but nothing can sit alongside or as an accompnyment to the GURU Granth Sahib. Maybe our historians need to divulge the reasons behind dual prakash in the past and explain what I feel was a misplaced use of the Dasam bani.

I would be suspicious of translations and hope that they are thoroughly checked. The entire GGS should not be printed in a single volume in any other language apart from Gurmukhi. By breaking it up into many seperate volumes, you can overcome this and thus it would be great to spread Gods message of the true religion to all. All major language groups should have access to this including Arabic and Mandarin. The time will come when people will need to choose between the maleccha panth and Khalsa panth and before this, it is up to all of us to spread the Gur-parchar.

The Sikhs there need to give a befitting answer, the maan of the panth is at stake and the maleccha derawala must realise that his dance with the devil will not pay divedends.

You describe a perception of slow transit and hard stools. If you were my patient I would want to differentiate slow transit from simple constipation. By telling me that you have recently been inactive, then this makes you prone to a slower transit time than usual, and hence increased water absorption from your faeces in the large bowel, making your stools hard (literally!) to pass. Most of the UK population have functional causes for constipation ie lifestyle (inactivity) or diet (lacking fibre). Other causes are rare (hypothyroidism, hypercalcaemia, lazy bowel syndrome etc...). If your diet is healthy and you take in enough fruit and vegetable matter, then do not worry about changing that. Avoid bran - it is very poor quality fibre and is sold as a quality dietry aid. Simple experiment - chew some bran flakes and spit them out. Next chew broccoli/raw spinich/lettuce and spit it out. Which would you rather goes through the gut? The idea is that fibre needs to form a good solid bolus to pass through your gut efficiently and scrape off dead gut cells on its way out. Bran transits very slowly and can worsen constipation when slow transit is a factor. See your doctor (you need a face to face consultantion and possibly examination - note this may include an internal examination, so be prepared!). If the appointment time is a week away, then try senna (available over the counter) at night, as I suspect from what you have said, that it is a simple matter of slower transit due to relative inactivity.

Puratan paintings of Guru Hargobind and Guru Gobind Singh sometimes depict them with accompnying dogs (albeit you need to bear in mind that most such paintings date from Maharaja Ranjit Singh's time and thus were commissioned works done from imagination of popular concept). The dogs were breeds related to the modern Afghan and Saluki hounds and were used for hunting. Muslims are not allowed to keep dogs as it is haram for them. An Ethiopian Coptic friend once told me that in her homeland there is a story that Muhammad buried a container of milk and was going to dupe the people in the supposed miracle that he was about to perform by finding the milk from the earth. Unfortunately a dog dug up the container and the people ridiculed Muhammed as a fraudster and he returned back to Arabia cursing dogs and told his followers never to keep them. If only I had the time for walkies etc... I would love to keep a German Shepherd, as I have always admired their intelligence, loyalty and ruggedness - beautiful creatures. Maybe another thing for my retirement list!

Its only as song!!!!! Bhagat Singh's strategy matched the times - it was a different yudh, much like the shaheeds of the early 80s who crossed the borders and disguised themselves as musalmans to bring supplies and training to the Indian side (strategy that was contraversial - trade one dusht for another). Bhagat Singh Shaheed-e-azam was a Khalsa prior to death - as has been proved above. In prison he would have been denied access to Panj to do his Amrit ceremony - but in those days, in the prisons 5 gursikhs would use any iron instrument to stir water and bless it as amrit. I do not know if Bhagat Singh recieved this in prison, but Gurbani was on his lips to the end.

Beautiful song. God bless the singer. Who are the nihang jatha in the video? Anyone know the group? - Although viewed via YouTube, it looks as if these guys really know how to ride their horses and the animals do not look as if they could be doing with some tender loving care from the RSPCA (as opposed to many nihang displays that I have witnessed in Punjab).

Simply what some people do to show their respect for Maharaj by recieving darshan from all angles, so to speak. Do what you feel comfortable with - Waheguru knows your sincerity of actions and there is no need to think that parkarma is superior to mattha tek in front of Guruji's throne.

For those sitting at the back of the botany class :D here goes: Bohar = Banyan (Ficus Indica) also known as Bohir or Borh. Jand = Acacia Leucophlsea (Prosopis spicigera). This is what bridegrooms from dodgy Punjabi families have nakli weddings with before the bharat sets of so that evil spirits think the tree is his bride and enter the tree, rather than his beloved (my cousin went through this ceremony when he got married to a kuri Punjab di.......pendoooo big time!!!). It is also the type of tree where the legendry Mirza Jat rested after him and Sahibaan made their getaway - a fatal mistake, for her brothers and cousins nabbed him at that point. Pippal = The sacred fig (Ficus religiosa). This is the medicine tree - leaves are used for skin boils, the bark is used as a laxative and a fortnight's worth of munching its bark will cure asthma and cause women to be fertile. Kikkar = Another acacia (Acacia Arabica). Palah/Phalah = Yet another acacia (Acacia modesta). Shisham = Shisham in English too (Dalbergia sissoo). Wood used for furniture. Shahtoot = Mulberry (Morus alba). Lovely fruit - makes jam fit for a King. Ber/Beri = All must know this one - the jujube plumb tree (Zizyphus jujuba) found at the parikarma of Durbar Sahib. Gul Mohar = Delonix regia. A beutiful tree - if planted guarenteed to attract lovers under the blossoms. Amb = Needs no introduction (Mangifera Indica) - ordering my pittee of mangoes now as we speak.....

That's not very nice at all! You imply the questioner is stupid with such a lame and non constructive responce. Anyone can come to this forum and ask what they want. Read his question - he is asking you to give evidence or examples of how drinking alcohol is bad in Sikhism. Guru Nanak Dev ji enjoyed debates and conversations with the sadhus and fakirs - it is a way to learn, share knowledge and respect the opinion of others around you.

Good and interesting question. Honestly - after working my night shift, I got home and opened this page thinking, what dribble will be lurking on the forums this morning, as lately there has been little to wet the appetite. Firstly congratulations on this eco-project. So much of Punjab is now agricultural fields that our forests and the wonderful wildlife that they once supported have gone (here I go talking as if I live over there!.....I reckon that the Punjab's mitthi can never be washed off - even if one was a 100th generation colonist of the planet Pluto!). Besides being a nice place for boars like me to roam in, trees help suck up pollution. Acacias (jand) are the common trees found throughout Punjab, but maybe consider something like a walnut, apricot or olive orchard? Initially young saplings will need a lot of tender loving care, but thereon, grow independantly into beutiful trees in the Punjab climate as they are native species there too, and besides you will have bumper harvests. p.s. As I understand, the mods are anti-meat, so I guess (being a boar) that I'll be safe there in your forest! :D Good luck with whatever eventually gets planted there.

I'm a medical practitioner and I agree with your doctor in that these hyperpigmented areas where eczema was active cannot be lightened or 'cured.' To help the skin blend in more, I suggest you use simple emolliants at least daily, as I reckon that despite your eczema being relatively inactive, you probably still have dry skin. Aveeno cream is a good emolliant, but expensive (larger Boots stores stock it - and check out their range of wash products). n.b. Anyone with eczema - be very careful of herbal products. Often those from India or China contain potent steroids which can dampen down the inflammation of eczema very quickly, but can also damage your skin - including darkening it. Avoid all herbal products unless you make them yourselves!

JustME's statement was a bit harsh. Many alcoholics usually have a story as to why they started and often it was a bereavement, divorce etc...where unfortunately alcohol was used as a numbing effect and there was nothing else to stop them. If you know anyone who is alcoholic then help them or offer that help - the love of a Gursikh does not remain within the safety and comfort zone of the sadh-sangat. Like Guruji, it reaches out. Talking about alcohol specifically and it being forbidden in Sikhi, as far as I know there is only one rahetnama which specifically mentions alcohol. The rahetnama of Bhai Desa Singh says, "Another person's wife, gambling, false speech, theft and alcohol, they are the five vices of the world. The one who avoids them is a Singh." But has anyone read the original and not the edited internet versions? The next line goes on to say, "If going to the battle, then one may drink alcohol. At any other time do not even mention the word." (Check out the original in the Punjabi book Rahetname by P.S.Padam)

Thinking about hitting the pardhan is okay - but do not actually do it - for that be be such a typical Jat thing to do!!! :lol: Seriously though, I once went to a Ramgarhia Gurudwara for a wedding and was shocked about the way Guru's (supposed) pictures were placed around Maharaj, like a Hindu temple would place idols. It confirmed all my caste prejudices...... BUT... Then I visited another one (again for a wedding!) and was amazed at the clean lines of the durbar hall - no images, no gaudy glitter/xmas decorations/flashing lights that remind me more of a mujrawali's kotha than Guruji's durbar. We need to put prejudices aside and work for panthic ekta - I am certain that most of us will witness this change in our lifetimes. p.s Don't let the bhappe in mind! Ikh wari ohn sade gurudware ne aye si, te mein ehs gal sunke phataphat gandasa chakea te ghore te uthe gurudware nu ohse waqt paunchea, kyonke ehs jat de seene wich aag...............(Joke!Joke! ).

Low infrequent amounts does not do much apart from acutely alter your senses by relaxing you and to an extent can socially inhibit you and over the long term some argue it has cardioprotective properties. Larger and more frequent amounts can cause social dysharmony, psychoses, liver disease and ultimately death. Sikhism does not allow alcohol - full stop! If not drinking then do not start - believe me, it is very difficult to give up once in the habit. Gurbani and Sikhi will slowly turn you away from such habit, but if anyone there thinks they have a problem, or someone close to them tells them that then I would reccommend professional help.

Do not get worked up over the whole higher/lower thing - its a myth and nothing more. Guruji would go to places and the people would climb trees to hear him talk! When listening to the Guru Granth Sahib, it is customry respect to be seated on the floor infront of his throne - that is all. With regards to Gurbani reading that is not from the embodiment of the Guru Granth Sahib, ie free talk or reading from gutka, then there is no such custom.

To get a good experience of guns check this out: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=31vm3-BQRJU Knob Creek USA - what a place!!! Imagine that you are behind a machine gun and the dusht is in the distance.....makes you want to experience the jang ke maidan!!!! In reality nothing beats the sword as the most beautiful, noble and ultimate weapon. Beside a good battle quality khanda or tegha, a gun is no match. Dasmesh pita praised the sword over all shastar and astar (astar meaning projectile or shooting weoponry).

I do not know the names of Guruji's animals, although I know that it is said that Guru Gobind Singh's horse was of a blue colour. This is similar to the horse belonging to the Prophet of Islam, which was also said to be of a blue colour. Such rare horses do exist, and it is a dark night blue colour that is a mixture of different natural greys that cause the horse's hair to appear blue. The term used is 'roan.' Slightly off the topic from the original question, but I do know the name of Maha Singh's horse (father of Sher-i-Punjab Ranjit Singh) which was 'desu.' Traditionally falcons and hunting birds in the Punjab were given Persian names such as 'Sultan, Zargham, Habib, Shabab' etc..The practice of falconry in Punjab has now died out since partition. Back to horses: Sikhs were once famed horsemen and Emily Eden during her tour of the Punjab with her father, the Resident of Delhi, during the Sikh Shahi of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, commented upon the fact that Sikhs had 'very showy horses' in her memoire. A long time ago I read that the breed of horses developed by the Sikhs of that period was known as 'Anmol' which literally means priceless. The breed was developed from the best of the Arab and Central Asian breeds. Prior to that Sikhs raided good quality stock from the Mughals and Afghans. If you look at the paintings of Sikhs done by European artists of the period, you will see that the horses were beautiful, grand creatures, with many features akin to pure bred Arabs. This is a sharp contrast to today where I am afraid to say that seeing a decent horse in Punjab is a rarity and even the Nihangs that are said to uphold the tradition of horsemanship, mostly ride very badly and ride the kathiawar breed which is a pathetic looking horse compared to the what the Sikhs rode in the past. (Again partition is to blame as good quality horses used to arive from the breeding grounds of Kandahar and Kabul to the horse fairs of Punjab). Anyone who rides a horse and has seen their displays, unfortunately knows what I am talking about. In the Uk we are fortunate that almost anywhere apart from maybe the remote highlands, horse riding lessons are accessible. I strongly urge the Sangat to engage in this pastime, as it not only keeps you fit, but is a thoroughly enjoyable way of maintaining our heritage. Certainly consider this for those that have kids aged between 5y and 10y as that is the perfect age to start.

Nijjhar is a very disturbed individual, judging from what he spews out on YouTube and comments like the one above. Just remember him in your next ardas, that his mind achieves peace.

Gurbani veechar - Great Post!!! We should have more of this - gets everyone's thinking caps on and hopefully will not lead to slander or any of the other distintigrations that posts tend to fall into. I am no Bhai Nand Lal (that man was amazing - not only could he perform veechar of our Gurbani, he stood before the Mughal court at Delhi and outshone the greatest Mullahs and Qazis in Hindostan with his veechar of the Qoran). Mai magat trai lobhaveh Mai = The mother Magat = adjective meaning desirable / pleasurable Trai = three Lobhaveh = To covet So I would translate it as "The desirous Mother covets the three" My question would therefore be 'what are the three? And who is the Mother?' ?Three senses ?Three traesures ?Mother meaning a supposedly virtuous person in society's eyes Please sangat jee - add to this post and give your opinions. Has anyone studied at the Taksal or any other Gursikhi instituation in order to enlighten us further. (Bhul chuk muaaf).

Damdami Taksal's Sundar Gutka is a very nice one, with lots of important Gurbani in a very portable form and nicely laid out (Japji Sahib, Jap Sahib, Tavprasad Sawaiye, Chaupai Sahib, Anand Sahib, Shabad Hazare, Barah Maha Manjh, Shabad Hazare Patshahe Daswin, Sawaiye Dinan, Rehras Sahib, Ardas, Aarti, RAkhiya Di Shabad, Kirtan Sohila, Sukhmani Sahib, Asa Di War, Dakhni Onkar, Sidh Gost, Bavan Akhri, Jetsri Di War, RAmkali Ki War, Basant Ki War, Barah Maha Tukhari, Lavan, Salok Mahela 9th, Ragmala, Chandi Di War). Got mine from DTF too (Oh how I miss that place - browsing for ages and occassionally buying something - up North there is nought like it! Thank God for online ordering!). With regards to the British adultering our Gurbani, I fail to see the evidence. These stories are far fetched and historically do not match up. Were all Sikhs at the time so illiterate and stupid not to knowing when an alien religion was duping them? Teaching your kids Gurbani is a hukum and literacy amongst Sikhs has always outshone that of their Hindu or Muslim neighbours in Punjab. If our Gurbani was shortened then I think it was done by our own people. My own theory is that during the British Raj, regimental Granthis accepted shortened versions of bani to lessen the time a soldier would need to spend on his personal nitnem.

Good question and one which I am surprised has not been asked on SS before. I guess that there are many people like myself on forums like this. People from Punjabi Sikh families who have grown up with shorn hair, but are thirsty for the knowledge and way of life offered by Sikhi. Despite learning a lot about Sikhi, reading and understanding Gurbani and meeting good examples of Gursikhs, I know that I am not yet ready. Three main reasons: Homai, Maya and knowing the reality of such committment. I cannot guarantee that I am so detached that I can take Amrit - in fact I doubt that will be case during my working life. I think that the best time for me would be approaching retirement, when I can fully detach and guarantee my head to Guruji. If you are from a Gursikh family and grew up in that environment and with that support, then I do not think it is easy to understand what the dillema is. The question posed by Talikhaak may offer some insight, but otherwise only little depth into this. Furthermore, I doubt that many non Amritdharis will come forward to reply on the forum due to the fear of prejudice percieved. One request please to all Amritdhari youth: Next time you sit in the Guru's durbar, look around at the Sangat. Go upto a Sikh who sits there with just a rumal on his head and greet them with Fateh. Strike up a conversation - get to know him/her. Share the greatness that Guruji has given you and I guarantee that you will have a positive effect upon them. Do not sit there like sadhus - the Guru needs you to spread the Sikhi parchar. You may even be surprised and learn something yourselves.

Chapter 20 Panth Parkash of Rattan Singh (Sakhi Machhiwarde ki likhyate) Guru Gobind Singh had just escaped Chamkaur Sahib and arrived near the village of Machhiwara, where he devised a plan to travel in disguise. His two companions who had helped him escape, the Pathan brothers Nabi and Gani Khan were disguised as Hajjis, as were some Singhs who were the Guru's bodyguards. While Guruji himself was disguised as Uch da Pir, making way towards his dargah in Uch. They got to the village of Kanaich. There was a Masand in the village called Fateh and Guruji called upon him to help him continue his journey. Guruji asked for the Masands horse and offered compensation, but the evil Masand refused as he feared the authority's noose if he dared to help Guruji. Guru Gobind Singh prophesised that the Masand will one day appear before the noose and indeed in the future the Masand met his death at the Lahore gallows. Guruji and his companions continued further to another village called Doraha and stopped at a serai. The local Muslims, seeing a holy pir passing amongst them insisted that the Guru and his companions stay the night and eat a meal with them (of course they did not know who the real identity of the 'pir' was). 'Guruji's Pathan companions argued with the local Mulla that the 'pir' was observing roza (fasting) and he only could break this upon nightime by taking strictly oats only. Furthermore they told the local Muslims that the 'pir' would thereafter not say a word as he would meditate with the rosary in silent prayer. To counteract any suspicions, the Pathan brothers told the locals that they and the rest of the group (the Singhs) would happily eat with them. The Singhs were worried that they would have to eat halal food and break their Khalsa rahet. Guru Gobind Singh told them that they must sanctify the food by touching it with their kirpans. Furthermore he said that in exceptional circumstances or under duress this act does not make one loose one's rahet and thus make one a Muslim. He further said that this clarification only stood as long as a Singh was not in a relationship with a Muslim woman. Guru Gobind further asked the Singh's to save some food for breakfast by bringing back a portion which he'll keep. Also if they were still concerned after eating the food to imagine that they are bathing at Amritsar before they go to sleep, which will alleviate their fears. The Singhs did as the Guru said and touched their dishes with the kirpans. The local Muslims questioned this act and the Pathan brothers quickly spoke up, saying that it was a new Islamic practice done by Muslims going on Hajj. The next day the Singhs, Pathan brothers and Guruji departed. To the Sikhs' delight the left over food that was placed in a bowl before Guruji the previous night had turned into kheer and halwa. (Doraha village in Machhiwara locality is off the GT road east of Ludhiana - This is where the gurudwara is located and I hope the above story explains some of what you will see if visiting the site).

Lots of good advice above. The best is the use of a buzurg siana, like a giyani to mediate between the parents as that is the issue. If you are really in love with each other then never give up. I believe that Waheguru gives is a single soulmate and no one else can replace that. I was in a similar situation (compatible etc, but not my family's numero uno choice) and I simply kicked up a very big fuss (very big fuss 'jat style' - ashamed to say what exactly and anyhow, I would not condone -simply worked for my personal case at the time) until demands were met! My work colleague is from South India and he tops that. Him and his wife are from different castes and neither parents were happy. He 'kidnapped' her (she was willing!) from her house, drove away together on his motorbike, being chased by parents and the police until he crossed the state border and found a priest to legitimise their marriage in a mandir. Both parents soon accepted the situation and forgave both children and looked upon the other one as a new addition to the family. Waheguru is the ultimate Decider of our fates - never loose faith if adverse things occur.

Certain jathas have done a lot of good for Sikhi since the reformations at the end of the British Raj. However they have also incorporated personal opinions into dogma and as a result we have these differences of opinion. People joining the jathas are happy with that jatha's beliefs and hence satisfied. No one should apply jathabandi lore to Sikhi per se. There are differences that are not so big that it should split our ekta. Recall that during hard times Sikhs united such as when Akali Phula Singh, an austere Gursikh and Nihang, would join forces with the womanising and hard drinking Maharaja Ranjit Singh, against the Khans, as during the seige of Multan. Both were in it for the Khalsa, both will be judged ultimately by God. A lot of Sikhs now rely on their jatha lore and YouTube to do the work, that they themselves need to do if curious. That is to find and read the historical texts, learn to read Punjabi and understand Gurbani for themselves - get a good balance of what Sikhi is about. My own opinion is: Bhang - Used for its medicinal properties by the Khalsa. Never endorsed by any Gurus. Nowadays panj patte ki shagan is a way traditional Nihang jathas ceremoniously pay homage to the shahids of the historical times. Other Sikhs including western Nihang jathas have no business with this. Jhatka - No evidence it was a last resort. Reading Gur Panth Parkash for example makes you think that from Guru Gobind Singh's time onwards goat and boar were the staple diet! Taking Amrit - Too many young people that I have come across in the UK have taken Amrit and then had problems with keeping up the life of a true Sikh. Do lots of reading first, get to know a Gursikh, think very hard before taking such a big step. It is truely the ultimate aim of every Sikh, but should never be done on a whim, without honestly being willing to give your head literally. The panj piyare did not go into the tent thinking that Guru Gobind Singh was having a laugh - they were rock solid in their faith and belief in Dashmesh's words that the head was needed for Qurbani. My giyani told me that Waheguru's judgement is harder on a Gursikh than on a Sikh yet to take Amrit. Bhangra - Purely a cultural thing. Light hearted and without vulgarity it is good fun. If we ban all cultural things not attached to Sikhi then we are like the Taleban banning kite-flying. Just a few PERSONAL opinions, so do not bother commenting on them. Like most of us I am no professor and am still aquiring knowledge and learning.