sonearyetSOfar

yes fair enough there are devotees who understand a bit of what they should be doing etc. but not enough kirpa for them, maybe they might become gursikhs. but you can't know about guru ji's hukam, guru da banna or attain that level of spirituality without practising it - and if a monna or a non amritdhari develops enough knowledge and piar then surely they would understand what they must do. if they don't fully believe in guru's teachings ie. carry on with some of their manmats, then they're still manmukh and not gurmukh like many of us, but we should try to become gurmukhs and not take shortcuts/excuses

lol so many ways to answer that question. but sikh culture is very different from punjabi culture i can tell you. whatever else, you can't be a GURsikh, without devoting yourself to the guru by taking amrit. rehni ruhai, soee sikh mera. oohh sahib, mai os ka chera. Jab lag Khaalsaa ruhe niyara, tab lag tej diu mai sara, jub eh guhe bipran ki reet, mai na karon in ki purteet and ਜਉ ਤਉ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਖੇਲਣ ਕਾ ਚਾਉ ॥ जउ तउ प्रेम खेलण का चाउ ॥ Ja▫o ṯa▫o parem kẖelaṇ kā cẖā▫o. If you desire to play this game of love with Me, ਸਿਰੁ ॥ सिरु धरि तली गली मेरी आउ ॥ Sir ḏẖar ṯalī galī merī ā▫o. then step onto My Path with your head in hand. ਇਤੁ ॥ इतु मारगि पैरु धरीजै ॥ Iṯ mārag pair ḏẖarījai. When you place your feet on this Path, <a class="dict" href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%81" onmouseover="ddrivetip('isir /i From Sira', 250)" ;="" onmouseout="hideddrivetip()">ਸਿਰੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਕਾਣਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥੨੦॥ सिरु दीजै काणि न कीजै ॥२०॥ Sir ḏījai kāṇ na kījai. ||20|| give Me your head, and do not pay any attention to public opinion. ||20||

well i guess that is for vaheguru to judge. but did they go against their rehit - if so then rehni ruhai, soee sikh mera. oohh sahib, mai os ka chera. Jab lag Khaalsaa ruhe niyara, tab lag tej diu mai sara, jub eh guhe bipran ki reet, mai na karon in ki purteet

vjkk, vjkf. Guru gobind singh ji could've put their bani in guru granth sahib ji, but they didn't. (well apart from two saloks) Guru granth sahib ji are the guru of the khalsa, as hau apradhi mentioned. Also guru gobind singh ji wrote in their bani, as an incredible show of humility as with all other guru - which us quarelling singhs seem to always forget, they wrote: jo hum ko parmesar uchar hai, te sabh narak kudh meh par hai. whoever calls me God, they shall all go to narak. also: agia bhaee akaal ki, tabee chulaio panth. sabh sikhan ko hukam hai, guru manio granth. guru granth ji manio pargat gura ki deh...

i'm sorry, i'm gonna have to be honest. it's a little 'late', but even if it was the middle of the day, i might not read through all that. maybe, but probably not. would be better if you could highlight the main points in the post. bhul chuk maph karni, no offence - i know you might think, well if you're not interested don't reply - but i'm just trying to help. vjkk, vjkf

my mum's like that sometimes, cares more about brothers, sisters and parents than husband and kids - not openly of course, but when you get to the root of it, it's evident. maybe your dad feels like that, and maybe he thinks he's 'tied down by you lot' no offence, obviously don't know if that's the case, just can happen sometimes. you can tell when a person is selfish, and there's really nothing you can do cause they don't want to hear. just understand gurbani and hukham and try and get your family to do the same. also chances are a person like that needs discipline/needs to be disciplines, but since it's your dad, not gonna be anyone there to do it really, so he'll do whatever he wants. you'll have to use like subtle psychological techniques where he starts doing stuff for you or letting you in on things, without really realising it. you're gonna have to research that yourself i'm afraid. being playfull - fnding things out via jokes, being kind, being extra helpful, being straight with him, being harsh, threatening some action that he might not like etc. : huge range, which one affects him though. but main thing is if you understand vaheguru ji's hukam then it's a lot easier to deal with. you can become detached and the significance of his actions declines. dhrigant maat, pita sunehu(ng),... you can still care without being sooo attached

don't be silly now, we know how it is. but you can't put a few pics up to say that's the view of the whole of islam(even though it might be lol), and that it's our view of what muslims think. they could do the same with photos of sikhs who maybe going against sikh principles. BUT you can post things like what shariya law is, and how they don't believe in equality, and things the qu'ran says etc.

definitely something going on there. way too much muslim exposure etc for it just to be coincidence. they could easily be getting financial backing from an arab or something, who knows. OH YEAH AND have you seen that muslim woman sometimes on the ten o'clock news or whatever, and she wears a headscarf and stuff. and there's usually a muslim on that weekend show they have discussing politics, seen only a few times. the blue peter presenter. and the one 'sikh' they have is that bloody kohli :umm: at first it was like, okay he's got a pagh on maybe he can do some good in representing sikhs - but no. openly drinks, talks about women and acts like an <banned word filter activated>.

didn't even watch it, just saw the title - i have been told, people posted in a thread as well - yes they are messed up whatever it is that they do.

WOOO that's wicked.

and you know someone posted about bbc making 40 odd programs about muslims and only 1 about sikhs. there was another muslim one on bbc1 yesterday called muslim tommies or something. now there aren't many records of muslims fighting in world wars, but there way a guy on there saying the 'punjabi muslims' were the backbone of infantry. it did mention sikhs, i guess because of the great contribution they had to put it in somewhere (unlike the indian government with the independence of india). but still the program was mainly about muslims. i only saw like 5 mins of it though, but it was enough.

Katha santhia is also taught, suraj parkaash granth, janam sakhian etc. usually nowadays unfortunately before dasam granth, only because dasam granth can be difficult to read - and especially to understand, so katha from suraj prakash granth can help with this. and yes, if you know what other religions say then you have the knowledge to form an argument against it. then you know where they are going wrong or you can show why sikhi was is better.

That wasn't neccessary... many things about our Sikh community is sad but true. I know many of us know many people who are vegetarian but are beyond foolish with daily conduct. There is no need to candycoat that statement to pretend his is not true what has being vegetarian got to do with daily conduct and intelligence etc. that was a silly statement imo. can't be bothered with a long pointless discussion as s50 said, and me personally. even though it was an accident it was probably avoidable so i'd go to panj piyare cause its a kurehit. although doing jap ji sahib and ardaas would make sense in a way - it's up to you and how you feel i guess. but if you go pesh then i reckon it would leave no doubt and you can ask forgiveness for any other galti that might've happened and ask for blessing.

lollll well what he's really trying to insinuate is, he looks like a clown! Hope you dont ever wear it! yeah i saw afterwards who actually posted the topic, but why lol

exactly. you shouldn't be so worried, evolution only dispells the christian theory of creation (and maybe other religions) and the christian theory doesn't come from jesus or even moses or anyone. a prophet didn't write or recite it, where history written in the bible about prophets may be plausible as written by disciples - i don't think anyone knows who wrote the theory of creation - i may be wrong, but i don't think there's any reference to anyone. ie. bhai gurdaas ji dian varaan, and bhai santokh singh ji's suraj prakash granth etc, are histories of guru ji and take what guru ji has said and expanded upon it.

lol sorry made me laugh. err no, maybe if i tried. same principal as dastaar, just using thinner, flatter larh, finished off with a wide flat larh at the end...

vjkk, vjkf still worth getting some sort of santhia, then you can expand upon that - or practice the way you feel is best. But mainly for difficult visrams and words. get gurbani path durpann - this has most of the difficult visrams, but not ALL visrams. so you might need help somewhere else. As for words, as there are many languages, sometimes somethings are pronounced differently. like chaupai sahib it's ਮੋ ਰੱਛਾ ਨਿਜੁ ਕਰ ਦੈ ਕਰਿਯੈ ॥ ਸਭ ਬੈਰਿਨ ਕੌ ਆਜ ਸੰਘਰਿਯੈ ॥ it's pronounced kureeai and sunghureeai at the end of each line (persian or sanskrit dunno which) and many other examples as well. oh jaap(u) sahib. you get yaiyamukta at the end, pronounced as dulavan on previous letter. ie. ਸਰਬਾ ਭਰਣਾਢਯ ॥ ਅਨਡੰਡ ਬਾਢਯ - sarba bhurnedai; undand badai mainly yaiye are a bit awkward

Do you mean Anandu Sahib :D ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਅਨੰਦੁ I havent been trying too hard to do Gurbani Kanth because I still want to learn exact pronounciation and until I feel comfortable with my pronounciation. The Gurdwara allowed me to have Guru Granth Sahib at my house for a while, and I do Paat exactly from what is written, even though I do compare how others read and sometimes it doesnt make sense why adding things here and there, most of the time they use Lardivaar examples which sounds logical but until then(able to do paat of Larivaar) Im going to do exactly how its written. I like to read slower so I dont miss any vowels etc but I do need to work on reading more words per min so I can start helping with Akhand Paat Seva etc. ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ I hear Kirpa and I also hear kripa and I also hear people say kirpa in one Shabad and Kripa in the next even though its spelt the same as in the So Purakh Shabad. I need to hold a regularly pronounciation and I catch myself reading Kirpa one time and Kripa another, and now Im feeling guilty of switching back and forth in order to not feel wrong sometimes but switching back and forth I feel now is wrong and I should pronounce ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ strictly as Kripa (because this is the same rule as my name) ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ is not pronounced as Pirtham but is pronouced PRitham etc so wats your view on the word ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ Vaheguru that's definitely kripa, like numastun(g) nrikurme, numastun(g) nribhurme etc and then kirpa is when the 'rara' is not in the foot of the 'kukka' (so kakke siharee, rara mukta, pape kanna is kirpa) and yes LOLOL it's anand(u) there and throughout the whole of the first pauree (and other places), i know the baani off by heart pretty well, but not every laga-matar. that's the hard part if you haven't learned that way, but i think youth are making progress - well those who are willing to learn, it's all about education.

dunno, why not post a link to another site or something

i guess it is I've had santhia from taksaal, and that is the principle, that you should read it as it's written. BUT at some points people like put a bindi on or whatever, the giani's i learned from just say teach but don't fight them as long as it doesn't drastically change the arth let them carry on if they don't want to change, and hopefully they will do ardaas for bhul chuk afterwards and they say the same about mool mantra, if someone just wants to carry on arguing, just say to them ok you do it up to where you want, all i'm saying is it's better to practice more gurbaani anyway. as in my previous post i tried to give an idea of pronouciations, like you said about ਸੈਭੰ and saying the sihaari at the end of gur prasaad(i) etc. But try it tonight or tommorow, jap(u) ji sahib is ok for me now, but someone trying to do it that way will be very hard. anand sahib isn't entirely easy for me yet to memorise, because taksaal will teach you but it's up to you to go deeper. old school taksaali's will teach the main things about 'haha' and sihaariean etc. but now each lagan matra is beginning to be taught and pronounced. basically if you start saying all of them it's much easier to memorise that way, but if you start by saying gurprasaad instead of gurprasaad(i), it's harder to change. moonh charr janda so practice reading and saying all laga-matran and then the new way will become more fluent and natural. get ustaad from taksal i guess, but best to go and stay somewhere over the summer.

imo you should try to make all sounds. first thing to learn is from 'baal updesh' learn pronounciation of painti akhar. Then learn 'muhaarni' off by heart - all the sounds. not too difficult once you learn the first few lines. then use that to read gurbani as well for example: Ik ooo-unkaar; (ooo as in how we say or in england silent r - just for the sound) sat(i)naam(u); (i) = siharee (u) = aunkarr (check muharni, thathe siharee, m aunkarr) kurtaa, purkh(u); (u) = aunkarr (so go back to muhaarni to see how you pronounce khakhe nu aunkarr, and use the same sound) nirbhao(aunkarr); nirvair(u); akaal, moorat(i); ujoonee; (not aaajooni, airra mukta. u as in 'up') saibhan(g); (don't close the g, just a tippi) so let the sound die before moving on, otherwise it sounds like you say the g on each. gurprasaad(i); jup(u); aad(i) such(u), jugaad(i) such(u), hai bhee (don't say those two together, separate) such(u); naanuk, hossi bhee such(u). sochai, soch(i) na (not naaa, just mukta na) hov-ee (not hovee, that's bihari on vava. so should sound like ho-vu-ee. check three shounds in muhaarni); je sochee lukh vaar... JAP(U) JI SAHIB HAS NO BINDIAN AT ALL so it's not sat(i)naa(n)m(u) - you know how it's often v.easy to use a bindi. but think about it and say sat(i)naam(u) without bindi through your nose, and many other places. and so on lol but applies everywhere like in jaap(u) sahib: numastast(u) devai - aunkarr there So yeah, that site is good for vishraams haven't checked them all lol but i'd assume it's same as like gurbaani path durpan For the sounds of each akhar and it's 'laga - matran', use baal updesh for basics - and gurbani path durpan for some of the more difficult sounds.

didn't they do ardaas in june or something. i dunno man

vaja and tabla lol. a little bit of drums, trying to teach myself guitar - progress is very slow, and need to get a nylon string really. would love to play piano and sitar. not enough discipline to learn something brilliantly by myself, that takes hard work if you haven't grown up with it around. it's easier with a teacher - but not easy to find time and money for lessons, along with doing other stuff.

vjkk, vjkf must be very upsetting, and i think it's great that you're try to deal with the issue instead of ignoring it and hoping it will be ok, cause that's what happens in most cases and people have to tiptoe around and feel uncomfortable all the time. especially those who find it hard to be two faced hypocrites. It all goes down to your aunty i suppose, if she wants him to stay then you should just support her - but i'm guessing she will be stronger now and prepared for it if it happens again. 1. so if she gives him the chance, support her and if your uncle does it again, then i'm sure he won't get another chance. 2. if they've taken amrit, i think they have to go together, and he has to ask forgiveness from guru ji - panj piyare. 3. If they haven't taken amrit then i guess it's a matter of sorting it out between the family - but he should still ask for forgiveness. if they're religious enough then get local giani's to do a sehaj path at home, do seva for sangat and pathi's and get them to do ardaas with just the family in attendance. GOING to the get together. can't you go and leave early? if he's there while you're there i'd completely ignore him, especially if everyone there knows the situation. I know how it is when you want to be up front, straight up, say it how it is - but sometimes as someone said you have to rise above that level and take pity almost. show yourself to be better, and don't stoop to his level, don't start arguing and fighting - cause if he stays then he'll have a smirk on his face thinking he's got one over on you just support your aunty and tell i'm only here for you and i'll support you whatever you decide, if you forgive him then i won't go against you, but i can't forgive him.

ਕਈ ਬਾਰ ਪਸਰਿਓ ਪਾਸਾਰ ॥ कई बार पसरिओ पासार ॥ Ka▫ī bār pasri▫o pāsār. So many times, He has expanded His expansion. ਸਦਾ ॥ सदा सदा इकु एकंकार ॥ Saḏā saḏā ik ekankār. Forever and ever, He is the One, the One Universal Creator. ਕਈ ॥ कई कोटि कीने बहु भाति ॥ Ka▫ī kot kīne baho bẖāṯ. Many millions are created in various forms. ਪ੍ਰਭ ॥ प्रभ ते होए प्रभ माहि समाति ॥ Parabẖ ṯe ho▫e parabẖ māhi samāṯ. From God they emanate, and into God they merge once again. and ਹੁਕਮੇ ਧਾਰਿ ਅਧਰ ਰਹਾਵੈ ॥ हुकमे धारि अधर रहावै ॥ Hukme ḏẖār aḏẖar rahāvai. By His Order, He established the earth, and He maintains it unsupported. <a class="dict" href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%87" onmouseover="ddrivetip('ihukme /i', 250)" ;="" onmouseout="hideddrivetip()">ਹੁਕਮੇ ਉਪਜੈ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥ हुकमे उपजै हुकमि समावै ॥ Hukme upjai hukam samāvai. By His Order, the world was created; by His Order, it shall merge again into Him. don't know about time limits, but you don't need to concern yourself with that. It most likely won't end in your lifetime - and if it does are you ready, most of us aren't. you could probably find better quotes though