chhokaranwala

once again after spending days to justify the murder of the Sant we are falling into conspiracy theories in fact anyone from the Jalandhar area will know that there are plenty of non Dalit followers of the Sant and the issue is much more than just a Jat dalit battle all the other so called theories of the 'others' are plain nonsense - boys from all the pinds from different castes are involved in teh protests - they are thousands on the streets and in many places the police are helpless before teh sheer numbers

So in India depsite the problems we still have a Sikh PM a Sikh CM - just a year ago a Sikh head of the army - Sikhs in every position of the IPS and in business a majority non Sikh country still voted for a turban wearing Sikh PM In Pakistan we have one Sikh who joined the army and later had to leave we have jaziyah on some Sikhs in Swat - you have a judicial system which gives minorities half a vote for a Muslim and with seperate electorates in the coming civilisational clashes in the subcontinent we have to look at which side, if any that we will stand

How can you justify these kind of sick actions :6 no wonder that some of our Sikh girls have had enough of this nonsense All this big tough guy talk whilst hiding in their boxroom afraid of the Black guy next door, of the Pakistanis down the street and the Polish in the High Street - even afraid of the 'freshies' who at least stick up for themselves- Their valour is only reserved for the Hindus the vast majority of whom dont even realise that they are supposed to be 'at war' with the Sikhs. so the end result is a mini army of 'Samosa Singhs' fighting an internet jihad against the evil Hindus and talking smack about being warriors .Is is any wonder that so many Sikh girls are marrying Hindu guys?

can never happen again hate and fanatacism has taken over all Punjabis the land of saints and free thinking is now the land of witch hunts and petty bickerings for which are also responsible

http://www.mynews.in/fullstory.aspx?storyid=18465 Jammu: Complete shut down was observed today in this winter capital city of Jammu and Kashmir, as people from all walks of life strongly protested against the atrocities on Sikhs in Swat valley in Pakistan. All the shops and business establishments remained shut and public transport vehicles were off the city roads, which witnessed massive protest demonstrations at various places. Vehicular movement was halted at Lt Gen Bikram Singh Chowk near the Tawi Bridge in the city and several other places on Jammu-Pathankote National Highway after a group of protestors held demonstrations, a UNI correspondent reported. A large number of police and CRPF jawans were deployed to prevent any untoward incident during the protest demonstrations. '''Adequate deployment of security forces has been made in the city to keep the situation under control,'' a senior police officer said. The day-long bandh call was given by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and other saffron organisations in Jammu in the wake of atrocities on Sikhs and other minority Hindu people at the hands of Taliban. Jammu Bar Association also extended support to the bandh call and took out a protest march. As many as 150 Sikh families have reportedly moved from Buner, Swat and Aurakzai Agency to Rawalpindi, Lahore and other parts of Pakistan. Taliban was demanding non-Muslims to pay 'Jaziya Tax in Pakistan's North West Frontier Province.

I agree Raju the whole mess was a typical machievllian strategy applied by the GOI look at the mess they created with the Babri Masjid, with Assam, with the Naxalites etc and even with pumping up people like Raj Thackery in Maharashtra today but I also feel that some of our leaders acted extremely dangeroulsy and without reason with the same attempts at cheap political gains at the expense of innocent lives and by the way I have never read or even heard of 50000 Hindus surrouding Darbar Sahib, have you got any links or proofs

1984 events were not simple black and white a lot of sikh leaders share responsibility for the hype and rage buring Punjab at that time the question is that is Sikhi an inclusive or exclusive faith the Sikhs ruled over lands which were majority non Sikh but did not force Sikhi on anyone unlike the modern self proclamied saviours who thrive on an atmosphere of hate and rage and some younger NRI Sikhs who advocate violence in Punjab whilst living comfortably aborad and by the way - when was Darbar Sahib surrounded by a mob of 50000 Hindus ? ive never heard this or read about this I for one dont hold 900 million Hindus responsible for the actions of the Indian government which casually represseing their human rights with the same ease - anyone who has lived in India can understand the vastly differernt nature of goverment and society in India compared to the West

interesting how you try to turn a discussion about atrocities against Sikhs in Pakistan to atacking the Hindus again youve got some serious problems mate - you need to see Sikhi the way its supposd to be - open and bold and positive

please tell us who the UP Bramhins were who brought the downfall of the sikh power ? the truth lies because we never developed a proper officer cadre or weaopens making facilities the ones that were there were run by Europeans and the officers of a lot of regiements were White Europeans who deserted the army at the first instance of war with the British - Funny how noone likes to talk about their treahery and instead we are fed with dark hints and lies about conspiracies Much of the Sikh forces were led by hereditary captains - the rise on the basis of merit was little considered - also half of the Sikhs in Malwa also sided with the British - we need to look at the uncomfortable facts of our own history and mistakes - A true Sikh is a lover of the truth and does not run away from inconvenient facts the basis of the state was still fuedal and medieval which can only be held together with an all powerful leader like Ranjit Singh - the econmoic ability of Britain to fight a war as an emerging insustrial power was far greater than a fuedal agriculutral society. - as with their other wars the British avoided conflict when the state had the benefit of a strong leader but jumped in when the leaders began a bloodthirtsy struggle for power

interesting how some groups and jathas hold themselves utterly blameless for the tragic events of the 1980s and 1990s how the same people justify the murder and killing of people who dont follow their version of Sikhi

some people here are so blinded by hate that finding a way out not going to be an easy task

taking of intoxicants cannot help in our spiritual development and should be avoided the true intoxication is the love of God

and pray tell what the card carryig Hindu extermists benefit from this stunt ? the truth is that we cant let our community be run solely by force there has to be a certain system of dealing with problems before rushing to beating people at any given opportunity

hes been the cleanest PM in India for a while no scams, no controvosies - always presenting himself with dignity in an imperfect world we need to look at the positives the fact that a Sikh has been accepted as a PM of India and is in a good chance of being voted for PM in the present election is a testimony to his clean image

the only thing worth shooting is the mentality that says Sikhi is an idenity based on being anti something Its this type of sick thinking that has led to the ruin of our quom and by the way why dont you tell us of what great miitray campaigns you have conducted against the RSS and other Hindus before telling people not to bother talking about the ethnic cleansing of Sikh brothers in Pakistan you are blinded by your hate and lack of thinking power we are talking about a hate campaign against Sikhs being conducted under our very noses and you want to deflect the issue typical example of the perverse thiking affecting the panth today

funny how the people who start beating the war drums on each and every issue regarding Hindus have suddenly discovered they are helpless when it comes to Islamic extremism why cant people raise awareness through protests, informatio exchage etc rather than sit and moan that we cant do anything or is it that they prefer to vent their bravery agaist a perceived soft target like the Hindus - most of whom dont even know that they are supposed to be our mortal enemies

the point being made is that sikhs have to open their eyes to the realities surrounding us we cant be victims to aimless scaremongering and racist hate talk which is against the very message of Sikhi and in refernence to the Dal Khalsa in the UK - these are the same people who never tire about talkig about the evil bahmans and the RSS hand in everything whilst keeping mum about the state of sikh brothers in states like Pakistan becuase it does not suit their political positiion

drugs is a universal problem in Punjab one of the problems is that our Sikh leadership seem to waste more time in petty squabbles or fake struggles with the government to divert the attention of the quom

too true I suppose some people are going to find a RSS or bahmanvad hand in this also

Sikhs need to be postive in their Sikhi rather than just be 'not Hindu' for example dharmically we have some affinity with the Hindus but that does not make us Hindus but some of the pathetic stances by groups like Dal Khalsa for whom Sikhism means nothing unless it is anti Hindu takes things to a ridiculous extent Thus a breakdown in society , of moral values etc is all laid at the hand of the hidden bahmans Thus they will turn a blind eye to thousands of Sikhs convertig to Christianity, nasty caste conflicts, corruption within the qoum but turn wild with rage if a Sikh brother attends a havan or some other Hindu ceremony as if that will bring Sikhi tumbling down Sikhism has surived bloodcurdling challenges in the past but by facig them boldy with faith in the Gurus and without resorting to hate mongering and downright lies

Sarpanch, you need to get your facts straight its is of course totally ludicrous to talk about the RSS having access to nucleur weopens As Sikhs we need to talk about the challenges facing our community with honesty and clarity not with two bit theories which make us look like a joke to talk about the RSS and the 'bahmans' being behind everything wrong with Sikh today is just a joke. Yes they pose challenges to Sikhi but so do two bit hate filled extremists who are destroying the very foundations of our dharma

the biggest reason is one which most Sikhs today dont like to admit and thats probably over 80% of todays Sikhs are descednats of people who became Sikh around 150 years ago ie after all the fighting and risk was over by that time is was politically correct to be a Sikh and that contiued under the British therefore most of todays samosa singhs are from family structures and systems which have no connection with our warrior heritage now Im not saying that its genetic but the influence of family and community groupings play a very large influence on the outlook of any person and this has definetly had an effect on modern day Sikhs an example are the Afghani Sikh brothers i can also add ideology how can any person not remain unshaken when he hears the message of the Tenth master calling you to him with your head in your hand to be a true sikh is not an easy path and not easy to combine with a easy comfortable existence and most people have adapted comfort zones in which to operate and still safely be sikh instead all our valour today is wasted in inter fighting - looking for RSS-Hindu conspiracies = looking for deras and babas to hate - blaming Sikh girls and all the world for the faults and weaknesses that lie within all of us we need to return to the brave and fearless mindset that guided the early Sikhs

interesting - looks like some brothers have taken their propaganda a bit too far. and mabye Sarpanch would be interested to note in his crusade against 'bahamnvad' that the late 'great' Karkare was also a brahmin and if he followed teh reports he would be interested to note that the accused Lt Purohit and his friends had some senior RSS leaders on their hit list and to talk of the RSS taking machine guns and having access to nucleaur warheads is just laughable - more importantly it trivialises the very serious search of justice for the victims of the 84 riots and other sufferers if our spokespoeple sound like a junior version of the Al Qaeda

they have also committed terrible atrocities on their own people and wiped out whole Tamil groups who dont follow the ideology of the LTTE a whole generation of child soldiers and suicide bombers - they are majorly involved in international drug smuggling and aspects of organized crime Is that the golden future of Sikhi that you are seeking ?

a little bit of knowledge with the semi literate can be dangerous - that about sums up our Sikh leadership these days Brahmanism was a term coined by the British to describe caste/religious based heirachies operating in India - it does not necesarily mean it only applies to people of the brahmin caste like in Benares the Brahmans are the dominating group in all aspects of life but in Rajasthan it might be the Rajput or Jat who sits on top of the pile - but the system is still called bramanism In Punjab the problem we have is that although the brahmins are a small and pretty poor community 'brahmanism' is in full effect with atrocities against the weaker castes and women and conversions to Christianity - with our leadershiop smugly sitting on tops of mountains of cash and assets pretending that brahmanism does not apply to them and has nothing to do with them it is his type of fake masands who our Gurus fought against - this type of bramanism and exploitation of the weak it is a clear violation of Sikh principles so it is irelevant whether some group lights a jot or does a certain ritual different from what we expect when the entire system is rotten