VanHelsingh

I'd like to know what 'witess' is for a start... :giggle:

That book seems to be all over the shop. On pg135 it says Guru Tegh Bahadhur Ji was the son of Guru Har Krishan Ji!?!

Do you know who lets us down in situations such as these? Our so-called friends, or those in our own garb, but who are in-fact working against us. Time and time again it's certain elements on our own side that has caused us to lower our heads in shame or call a retreat. And our enemies know this very well; it's an inexorable Sikh trait, and even though it hurts me to say such a thing, it is exploited continuously. We just don't learn our lessons from history and the past in general. You know that saying "Close but no cigar", i.e. fall just short of a successful outcome and get nothing for your efforts? That's us Sikhs in a nutshell.

I know, I feel the same way. The assumption that a government (and by extension anyone acting on its behalf) can never be wrong; that all decisions it makes are just and required, is an absolute fallacy, and I tell you the media - of whatever country - are complicit in spreading this lie amongst the people so that revolutions and uprisings are quelled at the onset. It's an absolutely pathetic and weak-minded perspective on life. What do you expect from "company men", i.e. individuals who toe the party / official line as opposed to what is moral and true? I'm not one for resorting to violence at the drop of a hat, but when your backs are against the wall, and there's no other way out, then I honestly don't see the problem in fighting fire with fire.

The official line is 'partiality'. But if you listen to him he can't wrap his head around anyone taking up arms to defend themselves even when the situation requires it. So it's either so-called democratic and peaceful means of resistance, or tough luck and take whatever consequences end up coming our way.

Why'd you make me laugh so much? :lol2:

By the look on Jathedar Sahib's face it seems like he doesn't want to be there! :lol2:

Wow, a lot of dedication and hard-work from Singh Ji.

Okay, I think I get it. So are they for Sikhs or agin us, lol?

I'm not exaggerating or being funny but what's a 'Keshdhari Hindu' when he's at home? First time I've heard of such a term. Are they Hindus who keep kesh but don't believe in Sikh tenets or what?

They always sit it out as it is!

I don't agree with Genie Ji's assessment of who is or isn't a Sikh, but I can appreciate the perspective from which he's presenting his argument. I'm reminded of something I read quite recently regarding the issue of Dr. Ambedkar and the millions of Dalits (known as Mahars) who were on the verge of becoming Sikhs back in the middle of last century. Apparently they all converted to Buddhism, and one particular journalist from the West has been back to chart their progress. From a purely secular perspective they are doing well; they're educated, empowered, and basically each generation is improving on the progress of the previous generation, and are becoming staunch middle-class Indians which is mind-blowing progress considering their origins. They live in mostly Mahar urban neighbourhoods, but even then they note there's still a fair amount of discrimination from non-Mahars as a result of their past, despite their obvious progress and the passage of time. However the village-dwelling Mahars are surrounded by Hindus, and these rural Hindus haven't forgotten who these Mahars were, and unfortunately with the passage of time, there's a lot of confusion that has crept into their thinking, as well as undercurrents of discrimination which the Mahars report is still present. The journalist notes how in the houses of these rural Buddhist Mahars there's the obvious Buddha statues, but there's also idols and paintings of Vishnu, Shiva, etc., and they even greet each other with the salutation 'Ram Ram'. It's a tragedy that despite unshackling themselves from the Hindu caste system, on account of simply being in India and being around predominantly Hindus and the Hindu way of life, they are gradually being absorbed into the traditional hierarchy once again. If we try to transpose this to Sikh systems of living back home, we'd be kidding ourselves (and being deliberately myopic) if we said caste was no longer an issue amongst us. It's all good and well congratulating each other on the Dalits who converted to Sikhi a few months ago, but the true test will be to see how well are they actually treated from now onwards, i.e. will they be allowed into places of worship or other institutions where they were barred from entering on account of their previous caste status, etc? Anyway, the thing about parchaar catering to non-5K wearing Sikhs - by conceding the point they ARE Sikhs - will never happen. It will send completely the wrong message, and undo years of parchaar which tried to join patits to Gursikhi. That's not to say alienation of patits is the correct option, but I don't see the problem in becoming a baptised Sikh. The unnecessary vilification - occasionally bordering on hate - which seems to be encouraged by some quarters is not needed. We simply don't know what dwells in the hearts of individuals when it comes to Sikhi, and at what stage they may find themselves on their personal spiritual journey. In the West I can see a point in time when spiritually-attuned folk who are born into Sikh families but not adhering to Gursikhi will turn to the likes of Buddhism if all they hear is how they're sinners for not taking Amrit. That's where the level of sophistication needs to be ramped up when it comes to parchaar in order to hold onto these individuals with great spiritual potential, and not give them the impression they are being turned out on their ear for being patits. But I don't think the capability and will is present amongst the learned in our faith to engage with people who perhaps aren't sinners or missionaries, but nevertheless have deep, probing questions that will help them comprehend whatever it is about Sikhi they wish to know. Of course, patits who consider Sikhi a joke, and have no intention of changing their ways are not the kind of folks I'm referring to.

A mixed 3-person tag-team match featuring: The Son, His Mother, and His Sister VS The Son, His Mother, and His Sister from the other side. Whoever wins the match the daughter-in-law of that respective house reigns supreme!

I would've preferred to see such a dispute settled in the ring at Wrestlemania. A one-of-a-kind 'WATTA-SATTA GRUDGE MATCH'.

It won't --- well, not from within Panjab at least. :strong: It's like wishing to re-learn the piano after 20 years of not touching the darn thing. You can't just settle into that groove overnight. There's so many mitigating factors that mean any such movements will be severely hampered by the modern-day situation in Panjab, namely the lack of desire on the part of the population of Panjab to weather the storm and see the thing through until the end. The aim should be to join people with Sikhi, and improve their circumstances in their daily lives, i.e. education, standard of living, etc. Another period of unrest will all but finish off Panjab for good. Our propensity for wrongdoing is the true root of why Guru Sahib is disappointed with us. If we (and those of them living over there) took responsibility for living and conducting themselves in a truly Sikh way we'd be unstoppable. A small minority of dedicated Singhs with the best of intentions can't change the gundh that has rotted the hearts and minds of the rest of the Sikh population.

No, don't isolate. Always desire to be part of the sangat, but refrain from being assimilated into those little ego-filled, chattering cliques where such activities fester and develop. Be strong.

Yes, I'm presenting a siropa (posthumously) in her honour.

False encounters swung the pendulum in favour of the authorities IMO. Where's the honour in that? :blush2:

Good question. I've been pondering this issue myself, and I think where we fail is not through the determination or intelligence of our enemy, but the fact is we are betrayed by our own fellow Sikhs time and time again. Panjab Police was, and is, composed of Sikhs that have absolutely no compunction in detaining, torturing, and killing other Sikhs at the behest of the government. Why? Personal gain such as possible promotions, increased standing amongst superiors, juicy pensions, etc. We are not united. That is not to say Muslims jihadists are all sailing in the same boat, but with our lot you just can't predict when you're going to be sold out by someone who's been bought. A prolonged, painful, and tough insurgency cannot succeed when the odds are overwhelmingly stacked against a small number of individuals who wish to affect change. Bottom line: trust. We are fickle, greedy, and materialistic. You can't win freedom when you're constantly looking over your shoulder expecting the worst from the very people you're fighting for.

That would suggest their command of Sikhi - from the viewpoint of behaving in a level-headed and moderate manner despite finding themselves at the door of wealth and power - was severely lacking in as much as they allowed their heads to be turned at the first sniff of the good life. It seems our Gurus, and certain select Sikhs of high standing, really were a class apart.

I'm - gradually - arriving at this realisation. Took me a long time!

We can't judge Guru Sahibs by our own standards and the way in which we conduct ourselves.

Lets not get over-enthusiastic. Firstly, objectively, is it worthy of awards from a direction, production, cinematograpy, acting, etc., perspective? If not then we'll look foolish making noise about the film being award-worthy just because it's dealing with a subject important to us, as opposed to judging the film on merit. Just take the movie for what it is: A decent, eye-opening melodrama (albeit based on fact) dealing with political and social issues that are still relevant to a section of society in the north of India. That should be enough for now. If we want awards for movies such as these then I'm afraid the sophistication level of such endeavours will need to be ramped up, so that we are in-line with other international productions which deal with similar issues such as movies from as recently as 2012 like War Witch, The Impossible, or even something as off-beat as a slightly older movie like Persopelis (yes, that movie which isn't a cartoon, lol). Like I said the publicity the film is gaining as of now is excellent, and that should suffice for now.

Maybe she doesn't think you're good enough for her cousin brother, and is using the 'religion' excuse to put you off? Or vice versa, whatever.