Jonny101

Like it or not, we certainly do have a caste problem. Although everyone does it to some extent but Jats seem to do it the most. I can see a non Amritdhari practicing caste discrimination, but I can never understand how and why Amritdharis practice caste based discrimination. This is the worst type of practice equal in my opinion to the 4 krahits. Maharaj Sumath Bakshan Sikh Kaum noon because the Sikh kaum is doing so many things against Gurmat.

Guys we all have similar feelings for Dhuma, but lets not attack Chatanga Jee as being a GOI mole or Gaddaar. Chatanga jee supporting Dhuma and Rode is not a good thing but I feel Chatanga Jee's heart is clean. Other than this one thing, he has always taken a very Panthic stance on things. I feel he is one of us, but just on the wrong side.

No conspiracy veerji. Many innovations and deviations have crept into the Nihangs. Some amrit sanchaars of the Nihangs, they would administer a different Amrit to the so called lower castes. If this isn't an innovation what is? Same way their ritual Bhang and meat consumption is a part of this innovation and deviation. Just look at their Dastars. If one were to look at Nihang Dumallas a 100 years ago they were different and if you go back 100 year even before that they were even more different. So to say Nihangs of today are unchanged for the last 300 years is simply not true, sad fact is changes do happen. Changes happen in all groups. Even look at the Singh Sabha. The original Singh Sabha believed in Dasam Granth, believed in Sikh mysticism, amritvela, naam simran and even Bibek (not eating from non Amritdharis). But the modern Singh Sabhiyas are pure atheists and have deviated greatly from the original Singh Sabha of Prof Gurmukh Singh, Giani Ditt Singh, Bhai Veer Singh. My point is, many groups go through an evolution without even realizing it. Nihangs of today are a far cry from the original Nihangs. I wish the Nihangs of today were like the original Nihangs.

The Mongols often won before hand to hand fighting began because they would kill most of the opponent's army from a distance with their arrows. It's not the drug that wins the battle. It was superior battle tactics and professionalism introduced by Chingiz Khan that made the Mongols invincible. One needs to look no further than than India and see the example set by the Rajputs. The Rajput warriors were a very brave fighting army but before battle they would get drunk with Bhang. When facing the alert Pathans or Turks, the great Rajputs would often lose despite having superior numbers because Bhang would make them very reckless in the battle field. The alert Pathans would end up massacring the often drunk Rajputs and take possession of their widowed women. The only Hindu power to have successfully fought the Muslims were the Marathas and they were as alert as the Muslims i.e. free from Bhang. If one were to take war the way it was fought during the olden times, still getting drunk would be a liability. When the British came to India, it was alert opponents that gave them the most trouble i.e. the Sikhs, Afghans, Tipu Sultan, Gurkhas. Where were the bhang drinking Rajputs? I have much respect for the Nihangs, but during the anglo Sikh wars the Nihangs could not cause a dent in the British army. It was the regular Sikh soldiers of the Lahore Darbar who gave the British most trouble. It seems innovations and deviations had crept into the Nihangs soon after Akali Phula Singh Jee. Even G.C. Smyth who participated in the Anglo Sikh wars against the Sikhs writes how the Nihangs after Akali Phula Singh Jee's Shaheedi had greatly degraded and were no longer the efficient fighting force they once were.

Drinking Bhang is a deviation on the part of the Nihangs. Drinking Bhang is not a Guru created tradition. But over time this deviancy crept into the Sikh ranks. I suspect it must have originally been used after the battle to give to injured Sikh soldiers as a pain killer. But some may have gotten addicted to this and slowly Bhang turned into a permanent (yet deviant) tradition amongst the Nihangs. This is seen with many religious traditions through out the world where deviations and innovations creep into old religious orders and over time these very same deviations and innovations turn into fixed religious traditions. Bhang drinking amongst Nihangs is a classic example of this. Gurbani is the touchstone by which everything is measured. If something is against Gurmat it is safe to say it is not a Guru created tradition but an innovation or deviation. During battle one needs to be alert not high on a drug. Just look at the best armies in the world today, soldiers are allowed to drink during their free time, but certainly not during battle because a drunk soldier would be a liability and a very clumsy shot.

Cases such as these will continue to happen because we give our children a secular upbringing instead of a religious upbringing. Again and again we are seeing such cases of our girls having affairs with non Sikhs. This is the effects of secularism on our children. Do yourself and your children a huge favour and give them a religious upbringing. Go to the Gurdwara as a family, study Gurbani, send your children to learn Santhiya. Make Gurbani a part of their lifestyle.

All Panthic bodies should get behind Bhai Amrik Singh Jee. Far from getting excommunicated, I think he is the most ablest leader we have right now and should be the Jathadar of the Akal Takht.

ਜੋ ਗਰੱਜਤੇ ਹੈਂ, ਵੋ ਬਰੱਸਤੇ ਨਹੀ

Taking these facts into consideration, I say we have a good claim to take Ayodhya from the Hindus and Muslims and build a Gurdwara there. That will also stop the Hindus and Muslims of the country from killing each on whether a Mandir or a Masjid should be built because in there place would be a huge Gurdwara Sahib.

This was last year. Did the same thing happen this year too?

Please people, buy some eggs and tomatoes. If you see Sukhbir, throw it at him. Try to aim for his face and have your friend video tape it.

As sevadar jee said while quoting Bhai Rajoana, a Sikh should be strong in his faith but also strong physically. Join the gyms and start some form of martial arts, learn the art of street fighting. Always have 3 Shastars on you that can be effective in a real situation. So if someone messes with you, they will get mashed up so bad that he will regret for life messing with a Singh. Also if you are a Mona or Kesadhari, a Sikh should always stand up for a fellow Sikh. If we don't help each other out who will? it seems times are not good ahead. It's best to prepare for the worst. Just because it happens to others doesn't mean it wont happen to you one day.

So we should go back to having Moortis in the Parkarma, women harassed by the poojaris, low castes not allowed in the Gurdwara like it was when the Nihangs were in charge of the Akal Takht? No thanks. I think rehetvaan Singh like Amrik Singh Ajnala should be the Jathadar. He has vidya from Taksal, very active in current Sikh affairs and also rehetvaan. And I'm not even Taksali and I say this.

True, but when the situation arises you will always have opportunists(like niddar) trying to milk it.

It's really disturbing to see so many red and white fenced Radhasoami deras mushrooming all over Punjab. They are gaining at our expense. Sikhs are not doing parchar, so it is also partly because of our weakness or lack of parchar that others are taking advantage of. Parchar of Sikh Dharm is the only solution.

Perhaps if Mr Niddar Singh did not try to spread his Hindu agenda amongst the Sikhs, his martial art could have gained more wide acceptance amongst the Sikh community worldwide.

Doing parchar to the Muslims of any caste is not an option in Pakistan because of it's apostasy laws. You can join Islam freely, but leaving it is not an option. Both the parcharak and the convert would be put to death. So it is best to do Parchar to the Hindus and Christians and maybe even the Ahmadis since they are officially considered non Muslims in Pakistan.

FACEPALM. Call me old fashioned but It's unfortunate that today Sikhs don't even feel ashamed that their daughter is marrying a non Sikh. Not too long ago, a Sikh man would feel ashamed by this and try to hide this from his friends and relatives, but now the so called Sikh Mard is inviting big names from all over the world to their daughter's inter faith marriage as if it is something to be proud of. The modern Sikh man has largely become Beghairat.

Good option. Pathans are known for having a lot of children. Hopefully Sikhs living in Pakistan have also emulated this from Pathans instead of going the same road Sikhs in east Punjab have done i.e. have a negative fertility rate(2.1 kids is replacement level).

The Hindus in Pakistan are a persecuted minority. Many times their girls are kidnapped and married off by force to a Muslim. It's estimated that 60 Hindu girls are kidnapped every month and forcibly married off. Even the government of Pakistan does not help them. But the Sikhs in Pakistan are treated much better. Even the government of Pakistan gives them a higher status than Hindus and Christians of Pakistan. Some districts in Pakistan Hindus form half the population. Doing Sikh parchar to them and bringing them into the Khalsa fold is not far fetched. Unfortunately no Sikh organization is even toying with this idea. There is a lot of Parchar potential in the Pakistani Hindu community. It would not only strengthen the Sikh community in Pakistan but also elevate the status of Hindus in Pakistan. I know people who have done yatra in Pakistan. Even they tell me how the Hindus of Pakistan are like Mona Sikhs. They have a lot of Shardha for the Gurus and do a lot of seva.

Sad but the SIkh population of Pakistan is too low, just in the thousands. Perhaps if there were a few Lakh Sikhs, they could have taken care of the Gurdwaras better. So far our only hope is to do Sikh Parchar there to the Pakistani Hindu and Christian population and increase the Sikh population like this since Pakistan has a large Hindu and Christian population.

Bhaaji, before discussing Nihangs let us be clear which Nihangs are talking about? the UK ones or the Indian ones? The uk nangs are as much Nihangs as me putting on a crown and claiming I'm the king of England. You may like to deny your link with Niddar or his ideology but your posts are 100% in agreement with him. In India the Nihangs don't have this us vs them mentality as the UK ones do. The Indian ones respect Sant Jee and consider him a great Sikh. The only Indian Nihangs that Sikhs have a problem with are the kind that are featured in the video in the 1st post of this thread. A true Nihang who lives the life of a Gursikh is always respected by all. A pretender Nihang will always be known as a Nang and will not get respect in this world nor the next. Anyway, if you don't consider me or the average Sikh your brother that's up to you. No one here is going to change your views if you are not even willing to think outside the box. Rab Rakha

Bro, it's really unfortunate you think so narrowly. It seems your views have recently taken a drastic change. Please don't think of fellow Gursikhs as the enemy. We are all brothers of the same Dasam Pita and in the same boat. We are not separate like Sunni Shia divide. We all believe in the same Bani. Then why so much hate for fellow Sikhs? I used to love reading your posts but now your posts are taking a very Niddarist/Snaatanist ideological turn. Please review your thoughts using Bibek Budh in light of Gurbani rather than any particular ideology.

Khalistani Gun Man Jee, Rajputs took Bhang during battle fine, but how much of that Bhang helped them in fighting the alert and drug free Pathaans and Turks who would massacre Rajputs and other Hindu warriors left and right? If one were to beleive that puraatan Singhs also took it, what is the justification of Nihangs taking it now? what battles are they fighting now that they need to take Bhang for no reason other than getting high? Today's nihangs have absolutely no justification for taking Bhang. Interestingly, the Marathas who did not have this tradition of taking Bhang during battle(like the Rajputs did) were the only Hindu group to successfully fight the Muslims(except for Panipat). Take the Singhs and Shaheeds during 84 who can be regarded as the true inheritors of the legacy of Puraatan Singhs. Did they need Bhang to numb their pain or to make them into fiercer fighters against the enemy? They only had the power of Naam & Bani and the unshakable Bhrossaa in Guru Jee to rely on rather than some worldly drug. I like Nihangs and I love their rehet. But only those who live by all the commands of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee can be regarded as beyond scrutiny. kabir bhang machli sura paan jo jo prani khahe, tirth varat nem kiye sabhe rasaathal jae kabir, one who consumes Bhang, fish or meat, no matter how many religious places he visits,how many fast he keeps, how much he prays, everything goes waste.

One of my former professors phoned me up doing apsos about what happened. He himself is a white man. He told me that he's glad that the scum ba$tard(the skinhead) is now dead instead of surviving and using insanity to get clemency in the courts.