BhForce

Thanks a lot to Gkaur, mehtab singh, Papi, and RandomSinghni. The shabads posted by you have left nothing to say on the matter. Thanks a lot to Gkaur, mehtab singh, Papi, and RandomSinghni. The shabads by Guru Amar Das Ji, Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and Bhagat Kabeer Ji posted by you have left nothing to say on the matter.

Didn't you read the tuk's translations above? 1. ਮਾਨਸ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਬੋ Recognise the entire human race as one. Note: Jaat can mean caste in its everyday meaning, but it can also mean class or species or race. 2. "The eyes are the same, the ears the same, the bodies are the same and the habits are the same, all the creation is the amalgam of earth, air, fire and water." It seems quite clear Guru Gobind Singh ji is referring to theh physical composition of the body here. 3. [but] They all emanate from the drop of God's Seed. ||2|| maattee eaek sagal sa(n)saaraa || The entire universe is made of the same clay. bahu bidhh bhaa(n)ddae gharrai kumhaaraa ||3|| The Potter [i.e. GOD] has shaped it into all sorts of vessels. ||3|| All people are made out of the same basic elements. This is quite clearly referring to race. 4. Kabir ji's shabad, quoted by Random_Singhni is also talking about race: First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings. eaek noor thae sabh jag oupajiaa koun bhalae ko ma(n)dhae ||1|| From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1|| maattee eaek anaek bhaa(n)th kar saajee saajanehaarai || The clay is the same, but the Fashioner has fashioned it in various ways. naa kashh poch maattee kae bhaa(n)ddae naa kashh poch ku(n)bhaarai ||2|| There is nothing wrong with the pot of clay - there is nothing wrong with the Potter. ||2|| Yes, they are from a Kabitt by Guru Gobind Singh ji. http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=20046 Such is the greatness of Guru Gobind Singh ji that I don't know if any other prophet has acknowledged that the one God worshipped by one tribe is the same as the one worshipped by other tribes. By the way, don't get hung up on looking for tuks whose translations use the English word "race". The fact is that word wasn't used exclusively in its current meaning until the 19th century.

s50, while the tuk shows the importance of parkarma, it in no way implys clockwise or counter-clockwise direction. The tuk just says "parkarma". The translator (probaby SikhitotheMax) also added "in a clockwise direction". Otherwise, parkarma just means circumambulation. Generally speaking, parkarma is done in a clockwise direction, though. But Guru kian ladlian faujan do it in the opposite direction because of a funny Sakhi which I can't remember now having to do with keeping the sword arm on the right side in order to defend Guru ji if needed.

Thanks for detailing the depravity of this person. Simply calling oneself a Sant does not mean getting a free pass in the court of the Almighty. Any marriage that has been registered in the court of God is valid for the purpose of giving punishment (by Dharam Raj) for breaking that marriage. LOL. This is pathetic, but it's also funny. It's like Bill Clinton changing his name to Reverend B. Clinton.

fordcapri, why do you doubt noserings are part of current Indian culture. They are proscribed in the Sikh culture, but they are surely part of the Indian culture. So too are lot of things which we, as Sikhs, may not agree with. In any case, I don't think this is too big of a deal. It's hard to understand why schools (around the world) seem to want total uniformity in their students. A nosering here, a turban there, a scarf, etc. doesn't really seem to me to be a big deal. What's really funny is schools that say they're doing this for "safety". For crying out loud, schoolboys used to carry rifles to school daily for shooting class! And now the schoolmarms are worried about noserings and mini-kirpans.

human, thanks for starting a discussion on this topic. In general, I think different ways of reciting the Gurmantar might be acceptable, as long as the correct form of the Gurmantar (with correct vowel sounds) is maintained. I'm not really going on one side or the other, just leaving it to sangat for discussion: kabeer kaeso kaeso kookeeai n soeeai asaar || Kabeer, chant the Name of the Beautifully-haired Lord; do not sleep unaware. raath dhivas kae kookanae kabehoo kae sunai pukaar ||223|| Chanting His Name night and day, the Lord will eventually hear your call. ||223|| p1376 Note: kookna does not mean "chant". It means bark (as in a dog barking). On the other hand, Kabir ji also says: har kaa bilovanaa bilovahu maerae bhaaee || Churn the churn of the Lord, O my Siblings of Destiny. sehaj bilovahu jaisae thath n jaaee ||1|| rehaao || Churn it steadily, so that the essence, the butter, may not be lost. ||1||Pause|| p478

This belongs in the techie forum.

What is that little box that says "English/Punjabi" at the bottom of the website with a button that says Go? If you select Punjabi, and Go, all the buttons (including Add Post and Reply) lose their text? So what is it for?

Is Purewal a doctor of medicine or of calendars (i.e., astronomer?)

Deplorable.

Thanks a lot for putting this together. It totally exposes the biased view of the BBC. I think what has happened is when the BBC was first putting together staff for covering "Asian" stories, it adding a lot of Muslim people plus some desis hostile to Sikhs. We're continuing to feel the effects. You should make your concerns known to some politicians as well. I don't know why some British people are out to appease Muslims as they are so hateful towards Britain.

The photo on the right side in the first post is not of anti-panthic Ragi Darshan Singh, but rather panthic Bhai Balbir Singh. Please change the photo, thanks.

If you don't care to see him as a saint, don't. Anyway, other naujwan his age are drinking, partying, and womanising, while he spends all his time telling ordinary people about Sikhi. That's saintly, isn't it? I can't really say that I agree that if a person defends himself, he's a fake. What S Dhadrianwale said in his response (linked to from the youtube video), is "How can you say that the preacher is supposed to come on foot, while the listeners are going to come by car?" That's reasonable, isn't it? While it's true that a for person who is in a phase of life in which he's not interacting with he world, it doesn't really matter what anybody says, for S Dhadrianwale, it does. Because he is interacting with and preaching in thew world, and the simple, ordinary people that he is preaching to are highly affected by what people say. Also, by responding, he shows that he is reactive to criticism. Would it be better if sangat (or whoever) criticised him, and he never responded? We'd say "He thinks he's too big to respond to us lowly people." By the way, he's not really crying over what's being said about him, it seems more like he's laughing it off, but still responding.

Not to offend anyone, i wanna make clear that not everybody is angel in this world. Out of millions of dollars he or other babaaaay gets in chanda every month.. what exactly their organization/dera/group are doing? I want to see a physical standing proof (such as school, hospitals etc). If school is made then is it reliable enough to compete with other private schools? If Hospital is made, will it be able to stand to treat hundreds or thousands of patients in a month. Will it have a credible staff? These are the questions that one need to raise not questions about their clothes and stuff.. I think it is a reasonable request to ask for accounting of funds and expenditures from sants. Just as Guru Gobind Singh Ji was accountable to the Sangat (even if it was to humour us), sants also are accountable. Instead of being angry, pose it as a reasonable request to S Dhadrianwale. But in order to do that, you have to see him as a real person with good motives, and not as a greedy baba. I know that he is sensitive to sangat's criticism, that's why he stopped doing dharnas for one tour (but went back when sangat said they wanted it). As for the level of the schools being made by sants, the Buddha Dal Public School in Patiala actually own a NASA space competition and went to the US. http://www.google.com/search?q=Budha+Dal+School+NASA The Akal Academy, associated with S Mastuanawale, have opened up numerous schools all over Punjab which educate children in Sikhi plus English education. http://www.google.com/search?q=Akal+Academy The Khalsa schools opened by Bhai Jeevan Singh seem to be well-received by the sangat. Even if such schools and hospitals aren't Harvard and Oxford-level, for some areas, they are the only ones in the area. Certainly better than nothing. And other examples, I suppose.

The song's lyrics are fine. The video linked to in the first post has added pictures to the song. Adding a picture of S Dhadrianwale in relation to fake babas seems totally non-topical. Does anyone have a link to the original video? By the way, would the Tata Nano ($2500 car) be acceptable for transport? http://www.google.com/search?q=tata+nano As people probably already know, S Dhadrianwale doesn't buy cars from out of the 1 rupee notes people donate. Rather, people donate cars already bought and paid for. I would agree that taking poor people's money and then buying luxury cars would seem inappropriate.

Admin, please do NOT close the topic. In general, there's usually no reason to end most topics. Closing a topic does nothing to refute the arguments that people have accepted in their minds. Until they post those arguments, and others can read and respond to them, there's no possibility of changing anyone's mind. If the only opinions that anyone can post are already pre-determined, there's no point to forum, right? I didn't post my questions (regarding a list of S. Dhadrianwale's cars) in jest. I'm actually still waiting for a list of cars. Also, if any of those cars are not suitable, I'd like to know which cars are OK. Here's a starting point: http://www.google.com/search?q=cars+india

harmandeal, 1. do you have a full list of Dhadrianwale's cars? If so, we can discuss further. 2. I don't quite understand what you mean by saying he's not a preacher. What in your mind is a preacher supposed to do or say? Some boring professor, maybe?

Uggradanti, Chaka 5, Line 13. This a bani which isn't in all copies of Dasam Granth, but is available here and there (from some Nihang gutka sahibs).

Hoshiarpura, it's hard to see why you're so angry at babas. Go to a normal smagam by a baba, and you'll see plenty of normal, "pendu" people, some poor, and even some Biharis. These are exactly the kind of people targeted by Christians. So can't we just let babas preach to this section of society, or is parchar just for the (relatively) well-off living in Delhi, Bombay, Vancouver, and Toronto?

Unfortunately, in this uncaring world, mass boycotts hardly ever work. If you have some kind of personal link with the man, you could let him have piece of your mind, though. It seems that people who have a Sikh background, but who live in a non-Sikh milieu, often have a need to prove their anti-Sikh credentials in order to gain acceptance in their circles. Although no one could ask a non-Sikh to risk his life to save Sikhs, you could at least not egg on the killers.

Thank you for posting these. Bhai Gurdas ji had the fortune of having sangat of 4 Gurus and is one of the most pious Gursikhs of all time. These verses plainly demonstrate that Sikhs have been celebrating the births (into this world) of their Gurus for a very long time, Guru Nanak Ji is in fact Guru, and that they gave a mantra to their Sikhs. These are some of the most popular compositions to sing at this time of year throughout the Sikh panth.

Sorry, but I have to ask, if you were looking for God in true form, why did you go to a bookseller? Did you think you can buy God?

1. Contrary to what ekonam says, the Sikh ardas has been created by the saints (i.e., GurSikhs), not by a manmukh munn. Gurbani says that what the saints (bhagats) say is parvan (accepted) in dargah (God's court). The elder saints of this community of saints (nirmal panth) have standardised a prayer for Sikhs. So, yes, the Sikh ardas is parvan as far as God is concerned. maeree baa(n)dhhee bhagath shhaddaavai baa(n)dhhai bhagath n shhoottai mohi || The devotee can release anyone from my bondage, but I cannot release anyone from his. p1252 2. Gurbani also says the stories of our elders make us into good sons: Baabaaneeaa kehaaneeaa puth saputh karaen || The stories of one's ancestors make the children good children. p951 The remembrance of our martyred elders is in exact accordance with Gurbani. 3. Gurbani says to praise the Gurus: so sathagur kehahu sabh dhha(n)n dhha(n)n jin har bhagath bha(n)ddaar lehaaeiaa ||3|| Let everyone hail and praise the True Guru, who has led us to find the treasure of the Lord's devotional worship. ||3|| p586 So we do with the first stanza of the Ardas. 4. As for the tuk ekonam mentions, there's nothing in it against the way Sikhi is practiced by every Sikh on the planet: man thae dhhokhaa thaa lehai jaa sifath karee aradhaas ||4||1|| My mind is cleansed of doubt, only when I praise You, and pray to You. ||4||1|| p557 jeeo pi(n)dd sabh this kaa sifath karae aradhaas || Body, soul and all things belong to the Lord-praise Him, and offer your prayers to Him. p86 Sifath(i) kare ardas can mean 1) praise the Him, and then do ardas, or 2) pray to him with praise. In any case, this can apply to both Gurmantar and normal ardas. 5. Although jap of the Gurmantar is also an ardas (a prayer with every breath), don't believe ekonam when he says the Sikh ardas is anti-Gurmat. jeea kee birathhaa hoe s gur pehi aradhaas kar || When your soul is feeling sad, offer your prayers to the Guru. p 519 6. Finally, the way we do ardas (standing up with hands folded) is enjoined in Gurbani): jis naal jor n chalee khalae keechai aradhaas || Stand and offer your prayer, to the One who cannot be moved by force. p994 thisai agai naanakaa khalie keechai aradhaas ||1|| So stand before Him, O Nanak, and offer your prayers. ||1|| p 1093 dhue kar jor karo aradhaas || With my palms pressed together, I offer this prayer. p1152 This is what we have been taught to do by our Gurus, have been doing, and will keep doing until the end of this Earth.

Balbir Singh, You've already received some very good replies above. Nevertheless: You use the word "patent", but it doesn't apply in this situation. A patent is an part of English law; it means granting of a monopoly on the use of an invention by its inventor for a period of time. Patents do not apply to books, rather, copyrights do. In any case, our Guru isn't a book, which is why the Akal Takhat banned booksellers from this trade. In addition, the ban was not based on the western legal concept of patents or copyrights, but rather on the Sikh concepts of community order (gurmatta and hukumnamma, Guruship, and Panj Piare). To answer your question of whether Sri Guru Granth Sahib is by Sikhs for Sikhs, the answer is yes. The reason is our Guru isn't a book that anyone can buy and sell, and keep however he wants to whereever he wants to. Sri Guru Granth Sahib is only to be taken to places where respect is maintained. On the other hand, if someone wants to study Gurbani, he can do so from commentaries (teekas) or sanchian (volumes containing some part, usually half, of Gurbani).

Although I understand the rationale which was given for the (current) Nanakshahi calendar, it's quite farfetched to say that the Bikrami calendar is "against Gurbani". The Bikrami calendar was used by all the 10 Gurus. And dates within the first recension (and subsequent ones) by Bhai Gurdas Ji approved by Guru Arjan Dev ji are in Bikrami. Again, it's the panth's decision to go with one calendar or another. But let's not call Bikrami "against Gurbani". It's like plastic vs. aluminum. Both have good and bad points, but neither is "against Gurbani".