Jump to content

BhForce

Members
  • Posts

    2,878
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    75

Everything posted by BhForce

  1. First, I think you're assuming that Jesus did actually say that. Maybe he did, in which case I don't know what it's supposed to mean. But he certainly didn't write those words. There are no writings whatsoever by Jesus. The Gospel ascribed to Matthew is not necessarily written by the supposed Apostle Matthew. This is a later church tradition. There are no full copies of the Bible books until hundreds of years later. Given all of this, one wonders if Jesus said that. Which suggests the possibility of going down rabbit holes which start off by what "someone said".
  2. For a Sikh book written in easy Punjabi, read Se Kinehiya: https://www.amazon.com/Kinehiya-English-Sant-Sewa-Singh-ebook/dp/B08P2465WG/ You can read PDFs on Kindle this way: https://www.cisdem.com/resource/read-pdf-on-kindle.html After Se Kinhehiya, you may want to read this (also easy Punjabi): https://sikhbookclub.com/Book/Roop-Gobind-Ka-Raaj-Khalsa-Ka-Sikka-Sone-Ka-By-Bhai-Rama-Singh-Ji Once you've read these, you can read standard works like Bhai Vir Singh ji, etc. And then the classics like Panth Prakash (hard).
  3. Yes, this is what Guru ji says: ਸਉਦੇ ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਉਚਰਹਿ ਉਠਦੇ ਭੀ ਵਾਹੁ ਕਰੇਨਿ ॥ Such people (uchreh) utter (vaahu vaahu) praises of the Almighty (saude) when going to sleep and (karen) do it (uthde) when they get up; ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਮੁਖ ਉਜਲੇ ਜਿ ਨਿਤ ਉਠਿ ਸੰਮਾਲੇਨਿ ॥੧॥ Nanak bright are the faces of those who daily arise early and remember God. p312
  4. As far as I can see, Gurbani recommends both approaches. Basically: Question:Gurbani or Gurmanter? Answer: Yes. ਮਃ ੪ ॥ 4th Guru. ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ He, who calls himself a Sikh of the Great True Guru, should rise early and meditate on God's Name. ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥ He should make efforts early in the morning take bath and have ablution in the tank of Nectar. ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ By repeating Lords God's Name under Guru's instruction all his sins misdeeds and accusations are wiped off. ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ Afterwards at sun rise he sings Gurbani and whilst sitting or standing he meditates in God's Name. p305 Kabir ji: ਕੋਈ ਗਾਵੈ ਕੋ ਸੁਣੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥ Some sing, some listen while focusing the mind on God's Name. ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਸੰਸਾ ਨਹੀ ਅੰਤਿ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਇ ॥੪॥੧॥੪॥੫੫॥ Says Kabir, doubtlessly (both) obtain the highest state at last. p335
  5. Gurbani says to be absorbed in God, don't bother with others, and God will take care of you: ਮਨੁ ਬੇਧਿਆ ਦਇਆਲ ਸੇਤੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਈ ॥ My soul is pierced by the Merciful Master, O my mother. ਕਉਣੁ ਜਾਣੈ ਪੀਰ ਪਰਾਈ ॥ Who knows the pain of another? ਹਮ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਿੰਤ ਪਰਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ I don't worry about others. Pause. p588
  6. There are a few specific examples given in Sikh History (Sakhis). Such as Moola Khatri. But you should also know that it was (I believe) Sant Bhindrawale who said that while it may be the case that a specific action will lead to a specific reincarnation, it is not our place to make assumptions the other way: I.e., look at someone who is poor or whatever and assert that they did something specifically bad in the previous life. That's God's domain. All we need to be concerned with is to live life as Guru ji told us and we'll get the reward of that.
  7. Just for context, this is that Shabad by Bhagat Trilochan ji: ਗੂਜਰੀ ॥ Gujri. ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲਛਮੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ At the last moment, he has thinks of wealth and dies in such a thought, ਸਰਪ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੧॥ is born again and again as the serpent species. ਅਰੀ ਬਾਈ ਗੋਬਿਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਤਿ ਬੀਸਰੈ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ O sister do not ever forget the Name of the Master of the world. Pause. ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ At the last moment, he who thinks of a woman, and dies in such a thought, ਬੇਸਵਾ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੨॥ he is born again and again as a prostitute. ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲੜਿਕੇ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ At the last moment, he who thinks of the sons and dies in such a thought, ਸੂਕਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੩॥ he is born again as the swine species. ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਮੰਦਰ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ At the last moment, he who thinks of mansions and if he dies in such thought, ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੪॥ he is born again and again as a goblin. ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ At the last moment, he who thinks the Lords, and if he dies in such a thought; ਬਦਤਿ ਤਿਲੋਚਨੁ ਤੇ ਨਰ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਪੀਤੰਬਰੁ ਵਾ ਕੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸੈ ॥੫॥੨॥ Says Tirlochan, that man is emancipated and the yellow - robed Lord abides in his heart. This shabad makes no sense in the Missionary paradigm. They claim avagavan (going back and forth, i.e., reincarnation) refers to man going to good thoughts vs bad thoughts. Quite a stretch, but sometimes they could make it work. They can't make it work here. I mean, why is Gurbani referring to "ant kaal" (end time)? Then the word Avtar. And the pesky word Jon(i). I.e., yoni, or literally birth canal or life. It's very clear this shabad is in reference to end-of-life. What sense would it make for a young man who doesn't have sons? Or a wife?
  8. I'm trying to understand your point, could you explain it further? I made the point that Gurbani says sinners will be punished, but plenty of sinners aren't punished in this world, so therefore there must be next world where they are punished. Where were you trying to go with your point? Secondly, could you explain how Harnaksh and Ravan got mukti? Gurbani says God killed the evil Harnaksh: ਹਰਣਾਖਸੁ ਦੁਸਟੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦੁ ਤਰਾਇਆ ॥ Wicked Harnakhsh, the Lord killed and saved Prehlad. p451
  9. I actually think the separate app is a good idea. Wedging more stuff into the existing Gurbani apps will just make them overloaded. It's hard enough already to get volunteers to do "arth" (meanings) seva in the Gurdwara. A simple interface to do one thing (arth) is good. Having a dozen different menus and dozens of submenus for apps wedged in would be a bad thing.
  10. Bro, there's already a thread on reincarnation. Could you repost there? And I will respond.
  11. Bro, while I agree some Sikhs try to sneak in Abrahamic concepts, I'm at a loss to understand your objection to the word "sin". I mean, how does it differ from "paap"? When you know one language, and then you learn another, you correlate words with similar meanings. For example, you call a dog "<banned word filter activated>" and then when you learn English, you find that people are calling 4-legged animals that bark "dog" and you correlate the two words. So my question for you is: How do "sin" and "paap" differ?
  12. Here's another verse that doesn't fit with missionary thought: ਸਭ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਕਰਹੁ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਜਿਨਿ ਗਰੀਬ ਅਨਾਥ ਰਾਖਿ ਲੀਓਇ ॥ ਜੈਕਾਰੁ ਕੀਓ ਧਰਮੀਆ ਕਾ ਪਾਪੀ ਕਉ ਡੰਡੁ ਦੀਓਇ ॥੧੬॥ Ye all praise the Lord, who protects the poor and the weak. He grants laurels to the virtuous and to the evil-doer He awards punishment. p89 Now ask yourself, are the poor being protected in this world? Are the sinners (classic examples like Hitler or Auranzeb) punished in this world? Not necessarily. Plenty of killers and tyrants got off scot free or at the most were killed. So just one death in return for hundreds or thousands of killings? It seems clear that these verses only make sense if there is a next world in which justice is done, which the missionaries adamantly deny. Secondly, Guru ji is asking us to praise Hari (God). If God doesn't exist, or "Hari" just means nature, then what's the point of praising nature? That's like praising a rock or a river. None of this makes sense with missionary interpretation but it all makes sense in traditional interpretation.
  13. An important thing to note regarding the Dasam Granth Sahib is that it does not lay out Bhagti principles in detail, but rather only mentions them. The second thing to keep in mind is that there are verses in Gurbani that can fit both atheism/missionary thought and reincarnation/traditional thought. But there are other verses that only fit into traditional thought. So the verse above does fit into both. And that's fine. The missionaries ignore (don't mention) the verses that don't fit their paradigm. You, however, should read Gurbani yourself and see where they may be misleading you. E.g., ਮਾਣਸ ਜਨਮੁ ਪੁੰਨਿ ਕਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਾਈ ॥ mānas janam punn kar pāiā bin nāvai dhrig dhrig birathā jāī . Human birth is obtained through beneficent acts and accursed, accursed it is without the Name it and goes in vain. p493 It makes no sense to say that you gain this birth through punn (charitable acts) and then also say there is no reincarnation. The missionary interpretations are such a stretch.
  14. Yes, there is. The "new missionaries" (the 18 year old kids who enroll in missionary schools) are not in on the conspiracy. They're just trying to learn to be a preacher so they can earn some money (and perhaps go abroad). Many or most of them are well-intentioned, but they are being taught "sugar-coated atheism" as you say. The bigger conspiracy is the higher-ups. Some of them may be "in on it", others are just pure atheists who are playing a game to destroy Sikhism from within. Their institutions may be getting donations from anti-Sikh institutions because their interests align. Good attitude. Even if God doesn't exist (he does), Gurmat is the highest path. Anything else just leads to despondency and depression about a universe that doesn't care about you.
  15. Nature magazine says number of species in the world is about 8.7 million. Gurbani speaks of ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਲੱਖ ਜੂਨ (8.4 million species). This is remarkably close. ਚਵਰਾਸੀਹ ਲਖ ਜੋਨਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਦੀਆ ਸਭ ਹੂ ਕਉ ਤਦ ਕਾ ॥ "Thou have created eighty-four lacs of species and given to them all sustenance since that very time." p1403 Note: The word joni is used. It seems quite clear that joni refers to lifeforms and not life stages (unlike what the missionaries think). Just to make it even more clear: Kabeer ji writes: ਬਇਆਲੀਸ ਲਖ ਜੀ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਤੇ ਬੀਠਲੁ ਭੈਲਾ ਕਾਇ ਕਰਉ ॥੧॥ "Forty-two lacs of beings are in water. How can I bathe the Pervading Lord therein O brother." p485 So how is it that jooni is supposed to mean life phase or stage of life? The missionaries trying to convince you that "jooni" means stage of life is as if you went to the electronics store to buy a television and the salesman tried to sell you binoculars because you can also see (vision) far (tele) with a binocular. It's just such a stretch.
  16. The problem is that these theories promoted by the "missionaries" is that they (missionaries) don't go through Gurbani looking for what it says. Rather, they first have made up their mind that they don't want to accept reincarnation, and then blindly misinterpret every relevant Gurbani verse. Secondly, I'll admit there are verses that could be interpreted either way, but the problem (for them) is there are verses that simply don't fit in an anti-reincarnation theory without really stretching the meanings. The plain meanings fit a reincarnation approach. Saying that everything is a metaphor is a copout. You can see this right in Nitnem: ਜੇ ਕੋ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਵੇਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਪਾਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਰ ਥੈ ਕੋਈ ਪੁਛਹੁ ਬਿਬੇਕੀਆ ਜਾਏ ॥ ਅਨੇਕ ਜੂਨੀ ਭਰਮਿ ਆਵੈ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥ (Anand Sahib, 22) If anyone turns his back on the Satguru, he won't find Mukti. He won't find Mukti even if he goes asking wisemen. He will wander through countless lives (jooni), he won't find Mukti without the Satguru. The missionaries want you to believe jooni means phases. The plain meaning is simply life. Dictionary definition: ਜੂਨੀ ਸਰੋਤ : ਗੁਰੁਸ਼ਬਦ ਰਤਨਾਕਾਰ ਮਹਾਨ ਕੋਸ਼, ਪਬਲੀਕੇਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਊਰੋ, ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਯੂਨੀਵਰਸਿਟੀ, ਪਟਿਆਲਾ। ਜੂਨੀ ਦੇਖੋ, ਯੋਨਿ. ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੀ ਉਤਪੱਤਿ ਦਾ ਸਥਾਨ. ਆਕਰ. ਜਨਮ. ਭਗ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਅਜੂਨੀ. The word jooni is related to joni or yoni (which means birth canal or the starting point of a lifetime). The reason jooni couldn't mean phase is that it's related to yoni. Meaning that Gurbani is evoking the sense of a real birth, not just a phase of life.
  17. True. But, someone who is in the above categories will not volunteer to be a member of the Panj Piyare. Generally, non-practicing Sikhs know they're doing wrong and do not generally object to those who are living in the Rehit. Also, generally, Rehitvan Sikhs don't care that non-practicing Sikhs drink alcohol, cut their hair or whatever. It's just that they would object if someone tried to change the fundamentals of Sikhism.
  18. This is kind of weird wording. "Indian religions" will celebrate "Guru Nanak Dev ji's birthday"? This wording must have been provided a Gurdwara committee. If it were just the Government, they probably would have just said "Guru Nanak's birthday". I mean, do you think a Government would add PBUH after Mohammed? So, given as the wording was probably provided by a Sikh, why would they say "Indian religions"? I fully realize many non-Sikhs are shardaloos of Guru ji. But not the entire religions themselves.
  19. Oh, so you're saying that the UK Govt website quoted above does not reflect the actual law?
  20. The first lesson regarding charity that a Sikh must learn is from the first Bani, Jap ji: ਤੀਰਥੁ ਤਪੁ ਦਇਆ ਦਤੁ ਦਾਨੁ ॥ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਿਲ ਕਾ ਮਾਨੁ ॥ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਕੀਤਾ ਭਾਉ ॥ ਅੰਤਰਗਤਿ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਮਲਿ ਨਾਉ ॥ Pilgrimage, penance, compassion and charity, bring only a sesame (tiny amount) of honour (merit), if any. Whoever heartily hears, believes and loves in his mind, obtains salvation by thoroughly bathing in the shrine within himself. So, the first thing to know about charity is that no charity is above having love for God in your heart via Gurbani. Charity is useless without Gurbani. Therefore you need to sing Gurbani every day with love. Once you do that, you can give donations. If you're asking about specific charities, I would recommend asking family in Punjab and giving money to specific individuals (such as a poor Sikh whose ceiling fell in due to rain). I would recommend giving to Sikhs, not to United Way and other general charities. Those get plenty of money from Western governments and corporations, meanwhile some of our people are starving or in debt.
  21. Gurbani states that a Sikh must follow Guru's command, not just chant: ਸੇਵਕ ਸਿਖ ਪੂਜਣ ਸਭਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਸਭਿ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਊਤਮ ਬਾਨੀ ॥ ਗਾਵਿਆ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਹਰਿ ਥਾਇ ਪਾਵੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨੀ ॥੧॥ All the Sikhs and servant come to worship Thee, O Lord, and all of them sing the Lord God's sublime Gurbani. God approves the singing and hearing of those who accept the True Guru's command as perfectly true. p669 Gurbani also records that Sikhs are to follow even mundane commands of Guru ji, like sitting or standing up: ਸਾਕਤ ਜਾਇ ਨਿਵਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਆਗੈ ਮਨਿ ਖੋਟੇ ਕੂੜਿ ਕੂੜਿਆਰੇ ॥ ਜਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਹੈ ਉਠਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ਬਹਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਘੁਸਰਿ ਬਗੁਲਾਰੇ ॥ The mammon-worshippers go and bow to the Guru but their mind is base and filled with utter falsehood. When the Guru says 'Rise, My brethren', they cram and sit like cranes. p312 This should be sufficient to show that the commands of Guru are to be followed.
  22. Thanks for mentioning this, bro. A Sikh who eats Halal meat becomes patit (fallen). Under no circumstances should a Sikh eat any type of meat from a restaurant. I realize the Nihang Maryada of Jhatka, and I am not talking about that. Even if you know (or you think you know) that a given restaurant's meat isn't Halal, there is still no excuse for eating meat from there because eating a Big Mac burger is not Kshatri Maryada.
  23. You're totally right, though some people on this forum disagree. There are three things about non-practicing Sikhs: 1. They will almost never mind if it's evening time and you say that you'd like to do Rehras. It's not like you're asking to do Namaz. 2. They will generally be OK with giving their kids over to go to Khalsa School or Sikhi school at the Gurdwara on Sundays. 3. When and if they're ready to be religious, it's Gurbani they will turn to, not the Koran or Bible, etc. The #1 source for new Amritdharis is former non-practicing Sikhs.
  24. Did you read it, bro, or are you just referencing an article someone wrote? If you read it, could you provide a book, chapter, and page number so we could know as well?
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use