BhForce

Your parents first mistake is in allowing you to carry on a non-marriage "relationship" for seven years. As your parents seem to not have any sense of shame, I don't know how they can now claim to stand on whatever sort of principle they claim to be standing on.

ਨਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਰੇ ਪਰਬਤਾਂ ਅਸਮਾਨ ਖਹੰਦੇ। Naa Tisu Bhaaray Prabataan Asamaan Khahanday | The sky-touching mountains also are not of much weight (than the ungrateful person). ਨਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਰੇ ਕੋਟ ਗੜ੍ਹ ਘਰਬਾਰ ਦਿਸੰਦੇ। Naa Tisu Bhaaray Kot Garhh Ghar Baar Disanday | The visible forts are also not as weighty as he (the ungrateful person) is; ਨਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਰੇ ਸਾਇਰਾਂ ਨਦ ਵਾਹ ਵਹੰਦੇ। Naa Tisu Bhaaray Saairaan Nad Vaah Vahanday | those oceans in which will the rivers merge are also not as heavy as he is; ਨਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਰੇ ਤਰੁਵਰਾਂ ਫਲ ਸੁਫਲ ਫਲੰਦੇ। Naa Tisu Bhaaray Taruvaraan Fal Suphal Faladay | the fruit laden trees are also not as heavy as he is ਨਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਰੇ ਜੀਅਜੰਤ ਅਣਗਣਤ ਫਿਰੰਦੇ। Naa Tisu Bhaaray Jeea Jant Anaganat Firanday | and nor those innumerable creatures are as heavy as he is. ਭਾਰੇ ਭੁਈਂ ਅਕਿਰਤਘਣ ਮੰਦੀ ਹੂ ਮੰਦੇ ॥੮॥ Bhaaray Bhueen Akirataghan Mandee Hoo Manday | In fact the ungrateful person is burden on earth and he is evil of evils. ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੩੫ ਪਉੜੀ ੮

Just a small quibble: Bhai Gurdas ji did not write any prose, only poetry. So rather than the way you phrase it above, it would be better to say: his doctrinal and metaphorical verses are separate from his historical ones. Both of them are written in poetry, though. The key point (which @Sukhvirk1976 misses) is that the mere fact that a line is written in rhyme does not mean that is non-factual.

Where did you get this and who wrote it?

Ah, that would actually be "the boat of the Sikhs is sunk".

Brother, you've got to provide a summary of it, as opposed to expecting us to wade through hours of footage to be able to respond to your post. On the topic of corruption, it is commonly assumed by our people that Sikhs/Punjabis/Indians are corrupt, and that the English are not. Maybe, maybe not, but some people say that the English, while they were in India, were corrupt. So I wonder whether this documentary may help to expose the roots of the current-day corruption in India, rooted in the colonial administration.

38degrees.org ? The website is non-operational, and the domain is defunct. Have any other references? Donald Trump withdrew from the secret Trans Pacific Partnership treaty as the first thing he did. Have any information anything else coming?

Yes, it can be, because in Sikhism, the self is a part of God. Therefore reflection on one's self is meditation on God. This concept is called Aatam Raam, God within Self: ਆਤਮ ਮਹਿ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਾਮ ਮਹਿ ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨਸਿ ਗੁਰ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ॥ Aatham Mehi Raam Raam Mehi Aatham Cheenas Gur Beechaaraa || The Lord is in the soul, and the soul is in the Lord. This is realized through the Guru's Teachings. ਭੈਰਉ (ਮਃ ੧) ਅਸਟ. (੧) ੧:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੫੩ ਪੰ. ੮ Raag Bhaira-o Guru Nanak Dev ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਨੁ ਸਮਝਾਈਐ ਆਤਮ ਰਾਮੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ॥੨॥ Guramukh Man Samajhaaeeai Aatham Raam Beechaar ||2|| The Gurmukhs train their minds to contemplate the Lord, the Supreme Soul. ||2|| ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੨) ੨:੩ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੮ ਪੰ. ੧੪ Sri Raag Guru Nanak Dev ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮੇਟੇ ਚਉਥੈ ਵਰਤੈ ਏਹਾ ਭਗਤਿ ਨਿਰਾਰੀ ॥੧੬॥ Thrai Gun Maettae Chouthhai Varathai Eaehaa Bhagath Niraaree ||16|| Eradicating the three qualities, dwell in the fourth state. This is the unparalleled devotional worship. ||16|| ਰਾਮਕਲੀ (ਮਃ ੧) ਅਸਟ. (੯) ੧੬:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੯੦੮ ਪੰ. ੩ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜੋਗ ਸਬਦਿ ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨੈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਏਕੁ ਮੁਰਾਰੀ ॥੧੭॥ Guramukh Jog Sabadh Aatham Cheenai Hiradhai Eaek Muraaree ||17|| This is the Yoga of the Gurmukh: Through the Shabad, he understands his own soul, and he enshrines within his heart the One Lord. ||17|| ਮਨੂਆ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਸਬਦੇ ਰਾਤਾ ਏਹਾ ਕਰਣੀ ਸਾਰੀ ॥੧੮॥ Manooaa Asathhir Sabadhae Raathaa Eaehaa Karanee Saaree ||18|| Imbued with the Shabad, his mind becomes steady and stable; this is the most excellent action. ||18|| ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨੈ ਸੁ ਤਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥੮॥ Aatham Cheenai S Thath Beechaarae ||8|| One who understands his own soul, contemplates the essence of reality. ||8|| ਗਉੜੀ (ਮਃ ੧) ਅਸਟ. (੮) ੮:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੨੪ ਪੰ. ੧੦ Raag Gauri Guru Nanak Dev ਫਲੁ ਪਾਵੈ ਬ੍ਰਤੁ ਆਤਮ ਚੀਨੈ ॥ Fal Paavai Brath Aatham Cheenai || Earn the fruitful rewards, by observing the fast of knowing your own self. ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਥਿਤੀ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੩):੩ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੮੪੦ ਪੰ. ੪ Raag Bilaaval Guru Nanak Dev

Calling someone shameful and someone a apostate are totally different things.. I love how your relativism helps you justify their actions.. I guess you think its OK to just lie Yes, they are different things, but they are both in the same category of condemning someone. You are unable to see this, because in your mind, it's bad to be strict in Sikhi, so therefore it's OK for you condemn the Singhs who are strict in Sikhi. On the other hand, @jkvlondon and others don't have the right to condemn someone for being lax in Sikhi because in your mind, it only works one way: lax can condemn the strict, but not vice versa. I did not get into the specific matter of whether they lied or what they did at the Gurdwara was good or not. I am merely commented on the fact that you condemned them while at the same time crying out when someone condemned Jagmeet Singh.

How could that be possible? Is the NHS not organized as 470 separate individual local trusts?How could the government sell NHS off even if it wanted to (which I see no evidence that it wants to--especially with a minority government)?

Anything's possible, but I think he is a Sikh, because you must surely know that there are plenty of people like @Sukhvirk1976 in our community. Although I recognize it can be tedious explaining Sikhi to him, I think it is worth it because most of the people that come to this forum don't log in and post. They are the casual Sikhs, and they harbor many of the same misconceptions as Sukhvirk. So think of your answering Sukhvirk as answering the doubts of those lurkers.

Yes, there are many people who defend the kaum even if they personally aren't very strict in Sikhi. The point though, is that there are many among us who don't back the quam. Compare that to Muslims where they are very, very united.

Punjab National Bank is not a Sikh dominated bank. That would be Punjab and Sind bank.

True. ਗੁਰੂ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਏਕੋ ਗੁਰ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਲਾਏ ॥ Guroo Sikh Sikh Guroo Hai Eaeko Gur Oupadhaes Chalaaeae || The Guru's Sikh, and the Sikh's Guru, are one and the same; both spread the Guru's Teachings. ਆਸਾ (ਮਃ ੪) ਛੰਤ (੯) ੮:੫ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੪੪੪ ਪੰ. ੮ Raag Asa Guru Ram Das ਗੁਰੁ ਚੇਲਾ ਚੇਲਾ ਗੁਰ ਹੋਈ ॥੧੬॥ Guru Chaylaa Chaylaa Guru Hoee ||16 || Then the Guru and the disciple become identical. ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧੫ ਪਉੜੀ ੧੬ ਪੰ. ੭ ਗੁਰੁ ਚੇਲਾ ਚੇਲਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਰਿ ਚੋਜ ਵਿਡਾਣੈ। Guru Chaylaa Chaylaa Guroo Kari Choj Vidaanai | In this stage the wonderful feat of becoming Guru by the disciple and vice-versa is enacted. ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੧ ਪੰ. ੩

Well, your first mistake was having a boyfriend. But I can't really blame you for that, because probably no one at the Gurdwara every told you not to date. The "bhais" just do kirtan, they don't tell young people what they're supposed to do to live a happy Sikh life in the West. Anyway, it's not a bad thing that you discovered the truth. You should be happy that God showed you the reality, not sad. Don't think about death, God gave new a new lease on life. In the future, you should not date. You should ask your relatives to find a good man for you to marry. This is the real truth. Try to do paath of Shabad Hazarey every day: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Shabad_Hazaray Shabad Hazarey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_L-fO3ocZo Also you can listen to Dukh Bhanjani Sahib: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83WnhAU4BWg

Are you the same person who said in the thread about Jagmeet SIngh's fiancee: It's OK for you to call them shameful, but @jkvlondon can't call her patit? So it's OK for you to condemn someone, but not OK for someone else to do so?

Do you know that they took an oath on a gutka? If you would spend more time in Sikh circles, you'd know that Sikhs (other than Capt. Amrinder SIngh) don't take oaths on gutkas.

Yeah. ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਮਨੁ ਪਰਬੋਧੈ ਅਪਨਾ ਪਾਛੈ ਅਵਰ ਰੀਝਾਵੈ ॥ First, he instructs his own mind, and then, he leads others. ਆਸਾ (ਮਃ ੫) (੪੩) ੨:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੮੧ ਪੰ. ੧੧ Raag Asa Guru Arjan Dev Maybe not 100, but very close. I'm not talking about whether 100% of them have memorized the Koran, or do Namaz 5X a day. But rather stuff like standing up for their kaum when required. So take someone like Gigi Hadid, an almost totally Westernized girl whose father is Palestinian and mother white, and who lives the standard model life, and shows almost every inch of her body. When it comes down to it, she sides with the Islamic "ummah": 'You're a f**king <banned word filter activated>' - Gigi Hadid calls out Islamophobic tweet after New York terrorist attack Not the case with our people. Yeah, good advice. I think the Amritdharis should extend and olive branch, and the monas should meet them halfway. Granted, some won't give up the shraabi lifestyle, but at least they can acknowledge the goodness of the Sikh way.

No problem. No, I'm not pulling you up. I was just wondering what you thought "patit" meant. Well, there are some abuses which are purely meant for offense. For example, Jagsaw calling you a woman if he knew you weren't. Similarly, bi**ch is merely offensive. Patit, however, is descriptive. Well, as far as me personally, in my post in this thread I stated that I'm not an expert on determining hair-cut status from afar.

Since you applied the term maybe you should also be brave enough to define it! Just to recap, I did not apply the term. @jkvlondon did in this post here. You should know that because you replied here thus: It seems obvious that you think the word patit has some meaning, and you know what it is, otherwise, why would you have responded? If "patit" were nothing more than a minor abuse, like "nincompoop", would you have replied "How and what right do you have to label her a nincompoop"? Anyway, if you think "patit" has no meaning, why did you bother to reply? The reason I asked you what you think "patit" means is because you were so offended at the word's use. I wanted to clarify why you were offended, and part of that is to ask what you think the word means. If you have no earthly clue as to what "patit" means, then how or why are you offended at its use?

You're not going to be able to turn Canadians' views by creating yet another Sikh-Canadian newspaper or radio show. Instead what young Canadian Sikhs need to do is get a degree in journalism and then get on to mainstream news networks like CBC or whatever. Then you'll be able to speak to Canadians.

Just wondering, what do you think constitutes being patit?

What? You might want to brush up on English grammar, bro: https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/english-grammar

Well, I think that he thinks he's the only "Siana Banda" period, and will insult anybody, including those (such as me) that agree with him on that point of rehit! If you ask him to stop insulting people ... then you yourself will get insulted. Yeah, that's why, while I affirm the general principle that an amritdhari needs to marry an amritdhari, I realize we can't know the specifics of any given situation.

Up to here, you were basically fine. I thought you were deliberately calling a man a woman, but you're basically saying you got his sex wrong. Fine, whatever. But, no, you can't just stop there. You have to go and insult people (me, in this case): Whatever, Jagsaw, I'm a lemming and a coward, and you're a super-Sikh. Happy? You just reaffirmed my point about you not merely making arguments, but having to insult people as well. Were you going to rebut his post? Or just talk about how wonderful you are and how pitiful everyone else is? What business is it of yours if he does check in to Sikh Sangat on a regular basis? The fact is that most of the posters here post a lot some times, and other times (when they must be busy), they don't. Even if they did post continuously, so what? Your post just goes to show how full of yourself you are.