SikhKosh

Eloping and marrying is not necessarily the same. Love Jihad is a phenomen very common in South India and now they are claiming it happens in UP too (no doubt, happens in most Islamic dominated areas). The man is talking of FIRs lodged by parents where they elope, and there the number of Muslim boys and Hindu girls is higher than vice versa. You can keep denying it but the subjugation of non Muslim women all over the world is a major proof of this, wheter its the strong majority rapes committed by 6% 'strong' Muslim community in Sweden or the grooming of non Muslim girls in the UK (Sikh, Hindu, ...), Kerala (Hindu, Christian), Ladakh (Buddhist), etc. How can you ever take that webpage seriously? It bases its entire data on the personal lives of celebrities. If thats the case then 99% of Sikhs marry non Sikhs as can be seen from Bollywood personalities such as Gulzar, Kanwaljit Singh, Poonam Dhillon, Geeta Bali (born Harkirtan Kaur), Kabir Bedi, Abhay Deol (dating non Sikh), Simi Grewal, Ranjeeta Kaur, Gul Panag, Raj Babbar, Tavleen Singh (journalist), and I can name you more than a dozen others. I can say that 99% of "Sikhs" in Bollywood/Indian media married non Sikhs, but can I say that 99% of Sikhs in India marry non Sikhs? No, actors have different lifestyles, etc. No one is denying that interfaith marriages happen in India, all Khans are married to Hindus (Sharmila Tagore, Saif Alis mother had to convert btw, just one of the few conversions) but the Hindu activist in the article is talking about eloping where grooming happened, i.e. fake love to make one convert. How come Muslims face the same kind of "allegations" everywhere?

Wonder why they are accused of the same thing everywhere. Rape, grooming and conversion of vulnerable non Muslim girls. Where Sangh spins narratives of victimhood, belligerence VHP leader sees conspiracy to ‘expand Muslim population, using Hindu girls as machines’ ‘Love Jehad’ is the new technique, says a grave-looking Chandra Mohan Sharma. But it is a ‘difficult art’, picked only after ‘madrasa-conducted training.’ “First, good-looking Muslim men are identified. They are given neutral names like Sonu and Raju.” These boys, Mr. Sharma says, are then given jeans, t-shirts, mobiles, and bikes and taught to behave. “They stand in front of schools and colleges and woo young Hindu girls. The first few times, our girls snub them.” But then, he says resignedly, they fall for it. “This jehad is about pyar se fasana – entrapment through love.” The bespectacled joint general-secretary of the Meerut division of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), ‘which covers all of western U.P.’, he points out with a wee bit of pride, is wearing a grey safari-suit. We are sitting in a small office next to the Khatauli railway station, off the main highway, in Muzaffarnagar district late on Tuesday afternoon. BEING THE PROTECTOR “Look at police records. Out of 100 girls who elope, 95 are Hindus who go with Muslim men. It is rare that Hindu boys get Muslim girls.” This, the VHP leader says conclusively, is proof of a conspiracy to ‘expand Muslim population, using Hindu girls as machines. We need to protect the honour of our daughters, bahu aur beti’. Ignore this as meaningless rant at your own peril, for Mr. Sharma was at the “mahapanchayat” on Saturday. The protection of ‘our women’ was the common theme in many speeches, as video recordings of the event, shown to The Hindu, reveal. There is now recognition that this event added to the agitational mood, added to the insecurity, and eventually led to clashes and violence. ... http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/where-sangh-spins-narratives-of-victimhood-belligerence/article5113769.ece?homepage=true

About the grooming - Love Jihad: True Muslims imitate Muhammad Ibn Abdallahs life. By this, they also have the right to kidnap and rape non-Muslim women as shown in Muhammads life (such as the women of Banu Quraiza tribe). Since Islam is a missionary cult that wants to dominate the world, they are much concerned with their population. This is why you will always see them having many kids, wherever they are. Secondly they actively promote marrying non Muslims and converting them (especially women). The Muslim youth trap vulnerable women in fake love and then exploit them. It happens everywhere. It happens in South India to Christian/Hindu girls, in Ladakh (North India) to Buddhists, etc. The less observant Muslims may not have the above point of view but find it lawful under Islamic code to rape or have sexual relations with dirty sl*ts as they say (goriah, etc) rather than making one of their own girls impure. This is why they will have fun with non Muslim girls and then settle for someone back home. Example of this is the "Sikh" girl who stabbed the pregnant Paki wife some years ago. Why does it happen to Sikh girls Altough majority of the cases come from non observant families, families that are too strict may lose their children too. I know of many cases (even Muslim girls) where the parents were really strict but once the girl starts going uni they mess up badly behind their back (maybe not appropiate here but all the amount of Muslim girls restoring their hymen in Europe etc). By really strict I mean that the boy may be allowed to have gfs, go out late but the girl can not even go to a girlfriends party. The lack of Parchaar is a major problem, Gurdwaras have failed us. In many countries many of the Sangat stopped attending Gurdwaras due to the constant fights and police coming. How can Sikh kids learn about the faith in such circumstances? Won't they be put off Sikhi? Secondly we spend too little time with our children. The first generation parents prefer working long hours to get a Gora lifestyle for their kids and then wonder why their kids get out of control in their teens. There are way too many parents who stop their children from getting into Sikhi (wearing turban, growing beard - 'if you do, you won't get married', once even met a moni who was forced to go to parlour by her mother). This negative attitude towards our own faith is lethal. Thirdly, even if there is parchaar it is always the same hippy thing: 'all faiths lead to God, Bhai Mardana was Muslim, etc'. Never do I hear the real kattar parchar we need: "don't marry non-Sikhs", "other faiths are indeed flawed, why else was Sikhi revealed by the Guru Sahibaan", even if there is a mona or moni they should have the Panthic Hamdardi to marry into Sikh families, learn as much about our faith as they can, be a positive asset to us.

This is a serious thing, several Wiki pages use her as an example to say that the British Sikh community is simply spreading lies regarding the forced conversions and groomings. Isn't there any journalist who could write a counter paper with proofs of the dozens of gangs busted recently? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Jihad#UK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Sikh#Communal_Issues

This thread is about the wrong translations floating around that do more harm then good. I started with this Shabad because I saw it being (mis)used on another multi-faith forum, but ANY Shabad can be clarified here.

Are you trying to say Gurbani accepts Islam as a rightful Path and tells one to follow the Quran and do Namaz?

Wrong Gurbani translations and ignorance are being used by several Dawah and Christian Missionary organisations. Even if not, it is our duty to understand GurShabad correctly, so lets use this thread to correct (wrong) prevalent Shabads. ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵਣੁ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਜਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥ ਅਵਲਿ ਅਉਲਿ ਦੀਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਸਕਲ ਮਾਨਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਮੁਸਾਵੈ ॥ ਹੋਇ ਮੁਸਲਿਮੁ ਦੀਨ ਮੁਹਾਣੈ ਮਰਣ ਜੀਵਣ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਵੈ ॥ ਰਬ ਕੀ ਰਜਾਇ ਮੰਨੇ ਸਿਰ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਮੰਨੇ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਵੈ ॥ ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ ਮਿਹਰੰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ 141, Guru Granth Sahib Ji Wrong translation: Where is anything like 'religion of the Prophet' 'faith of Mohammad' mentioned in the original Gurbani? Actual translation (taken from SearchSikhism): It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one can become a true Muslim (by surrendering completely to the Will of Waheguru), only then he may be called one. First requirement to become a true Muslim is to love the Dharam (religion) i.e. truth. Then cleanse the mind by sharing the wealth with poor and needy. This way false pride of possessions of worldly wealth goes away. Secondly, if the Gurbani tells one to become a true Muslim then why doesn't it say to recite Kalimah, the Quran, Namaz, go on Hajj, etc ? Muslim word is being redefined just like Jati ceases being celibacy when used in Gurbani context. Please post more Shabads and try to correct them.

An incident from Gur Ithaas: Now from Gurbani of Guru Arjan Patshah:

Independance day gift to Sikhs. When will Sikhs wake up? Khalsa is Baaghi or Badshah. Our innocents are being hanged. Our religion is being attacked. Our Gurdwareh are not safe, turned into Mandirs or attacked repeatedly. Agencies send criminals to spread terror in Punjab by killing rural Sikhs. Anti-Sikh cults and persons have full supports of the state. The mass murderers of Sikhs have been given promotions, are ministers or decorated high ranking officers. The life sentence of (Hindu) Kishori Lal, who murdered over 15 Sikhs in 84, is being commuted but 95 year old (Sikh) Asa Singh is arrested for an alleged robbery (happened in 1987) more than 20 years later (and is kept in jail illegally since persons over 80 can't be jailed). Time to work towards achieving our Halemi Raj. Train hard, lift weights like Singhs in Puratan times, take up martial arts or boxing, keep in your mind that you live with pride and die with honor. Without weapons and Kesh - you are nothing but a sheep - who can be led anywhere by the ear An order has come from the master, without uncut hair and weapons do not come before me Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji

Beautiful. Dhan Sikhi. We definitely need more Parchaar all over the world as seen in our past history.

Deepa Heranwala was mona when he became shaheed.

Everyone has the right to ask questions. Keeping Kesh does not make you holy, KPS Gill has kept kesh but has killed thousands of Sikhs while Navtej Singh Guggu a Mona Panth Dardi punished Ajit Poohla for his crimes against Sikh Nation. When Dera clashes happened in Punjab or riots in the UK it was (pendu) moneh who stood up for Sikhi (along with Amrtidharis). It is not right to shun them. SIkh Panth honoured Sehajdhari Sikh Bhai Kaura Mal who saved many Sikh lives in the 18th century & they are an integral part of Sikh community (they should however seek to become Amritdhari one day).

Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Sahib - many tried to test them but they were above all that. The most enticing (dancing) beauties were sent in front of Guru Ji by the Sri Lankan king Shiv Nabh, but Dhan is our Guru who instead adressed them as his daughters. Sikhi is truly the only unflawed Path started on Akaal Purakhs Hukam by Akaal Roop Guru Nanak Sahib

One point to note for the brothers debating Islamists: Aisha was not mature when she married Muhammad nor when the marriage was consumnated. She took her dolls with her when she went to Muhammads home at 9. The Muslim scholars have clearly said that playing with images or toys is only allowed for pre-pubescent children. Besides physical maturity does not equal to mental readiness for sexual relations or marriage. In Sikhi a women is more than just a lustful object (unlike Islam).

True. Many of us might hate Master Tara Singh but he had guts to stand in a crowd of Suleh and tear Pak flag. Yes they say the incident triggered the riots but still just showing the Anakh which we have lost. These Christian missionaries and Suleh kept quiet during our movement now even the dogs have started 'roaring'. In one of the articles one of the Punjabi Muslim leaders admitted that it was very difficult for them to operate in the 70s in Punjab and now it was too easy. Their love Jihad has started too, one case was reported in Moga and few have gone unreported.

Sikhs have been treated as second class citizens of India since 1947. Sikhs have been used and thrown away, wheter its in the wars against Pakistan or turning their barren lands into breadbaskets. S. Trilochan Singh continues to do a good job, altough I wish there were more committed Sikhs with such qualifications. I again stress on the need of practising Sikhs to get into IPS, IAS (police, advocates, ...) in India and politics in countries like Canada (on the lines of Jews in America).

Izhar Alam is not a Punjabi or from Malerkotla but he certainly is radicalising Malerkotla's <banned word filter activated>. He boasted of having 20 Muslim majority constituencies and said they could change Punjabs political game right in front of Badal in a rally - its becoming a serious concern.

One old Taksali Singh (forgot his name) proved in a multi-faith discussion how Sikhi is the most ancient religion. Baba Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale re-iterated the same in one of their interviews. You do mundan (shave head) you get a Hindu, you do sunnat (circumcision) you get a Muslim. But if you let a child grow up as nature wills, he will end up looking like a Saabat Soorat Sikh.

Agreed about having atleast 3 kids per Sikh family. Read this by Dr Gurmit Singh, don't know how true this is but won't be surprised if it is: “Low fertility among the. Sikh population can be gauged by the fact that in twenty one states and union territories have child population proportion below 12 per cent among Sikhs of these nine states have less than ten percent child population.” The actual reason of the low fertility among the Sikh population is the policy of the government, Recently Muslims of Uttar Pardesh constituted a committee of scientists to find reasons for the decline of fertility amongst the Muslims. The report of the committee was startling. It revealed that the reason for declining fertility rate amongst the Muslims was the policy of the government to populrise the Polio Drops. In Punjab too Polio Drops “Camps are frequently organized and it is reducing the fertility of the Sikh population." There is a big game going on. Assisted emigration of Sikhs out of Punjab, settling non-Sikhs into Punjab systematically, discrimination against people (mostly Sikhs) who studied in Punjabi medium in cities, no measures against drug abuse and smuggling, openly allowing distribution of drugs/alcohol in politics, it is all messed. After a genocide we are going through an ethnocide.

Generalising ^ Know of many cases were the girls were willing to convert but were still rejected because they were not Punjabi but black or white or muslim.

Sikh children need to be grounded more, a good pendu style thappar if needed when raising them. Besides, I have thought about it, but the fact that the non-Sikh partner agreed to a Gurdwara wedding shows something no? Shouldn't we go a step further and encourage the non Sikh partner to embrace Sikhi in Sehajdhari form and also raise the kids as Sikhs? As for the Sikh boys marrying non Sikhs, I've seen Sikh parents often tend to shun boys who marry Gorian or Sullian (or any other non-Sikhs), while they should instead be couraging to bring them into Sikhi and also the children. Theres many times the girls are even ready to convert but the parents don't agree.

I have often seen how many Sikhs wish others Eid Mubarak yet I never see them posting about Gurpurabs on facebook or other social media sites.

There are six type of Kalimas and the Shahadah (initiation into Islam) is one of them. Interestingly the Quran does not mention the Shahadah in its entirety and the Hadith report different versions.

Brother, don't be happy with the pseudo majority in Punjab. We have no majority in Punjab, the people counted as Sikhs also include all the Dera followers and especially with emigration of Sikhs to abroad and immigration of Muslims we surely are not at the 59% anymore. There are thousands of youths (Sikh) emigrate every year (illegaly). And we have no majority in Haryana, Rajasthan and Himachal, so we could work on some of these too. Baki veer, we slightly differ here and lets just agree to disagree. I'm thinking long term with the current resources and you are assuming mass level parchar will happen (SGGS translated in all Indian languages, less Gurdwaras built, Biharis and Punjabis educated about Sikhi). What you are talking of is a wish, brother not many are working in the direction. But why not help the poor Sikhs who have no houses and in the meantime build them homes in north India instead of south? This is why I don't believe in your theory that mass conversion will happen (theres dozens of stories like this all over India and even Hindu converts in Pakistan). Our 600 crore budget SGPC is corrupt and so are many of our Babas, we will have to work with the resources we have and not aim too high (talking about millions of converts and becoming majority in all India). Indian Express - 31 October 2000 SGPC let me down, says Tamil Sikh DHARMENDRA RATAUL AMRITSAR, OCT 30: Kandasamy Singh, a Tamil who adopted the Sikh faith is running from pillar to post to collect his dues standing against Shiromani Gurudwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC). He was appointed a parcharak (religious preacher) by the former president of the SGPC, Gurcharan Singh Tohra. He said that when he went to the SGPC office today, the officials refused to talk to him saying the president who appointed him had been changed and his name had been deleted from the list. Kandasamy who lodged a written complaint with the SGPC president and sent a copy to the secretary, said that he was astonished to see the behaviour of the SGPC officials.``I was appointed parcharak by Tohra who asked me to propagate the tenets of Sikhism in the distant land of Tamils. I organised various Guru Ka Langars in the rural areas and also operated a mobile library in Marai Malai Nagar in Tamil Nadu but I was told today that my name had been deleted because the president had been changed,'' he said. He further disclosed that he was influenced by Sikhism and adopted the religion in 1996 when he came to see his brother in Delhi who was a tailor in Karol Bagh.``I was eager to visit the Golden Temple and came here in 1998. I met Tohra who was so impressed with my conviction that he asked me if I could take up the task of teaching Sikhism in my native state. I accepted his offer and even underwent training in the Gurudwara here and at Chandigarh,'' he said. He further said that Tohra promised to give him Rs 4000 per month for the expenditure on various promotional activities. ``But I was so engrossed with the propagation work that I never demanded any money and today when I approached the secretary of SGPC, Gurbachan Singh Bachan, he refused to talk to me. When I approached the officials of Dharam Parchar Committee (DPC) they embarrassed me by saying they do not know English and I should talk to them in Punjabi instead,'' he said. He said that he was going to meet Simranjeet Singh Mann at his village tomorrow and would also lodge a complaint with the Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal. ``I am an advocate by profession and was delighted to adopt the Sikh way of life but the attitude of the SGPC and of the DPC was astonishing. Instead of rewarding me for my translation of Sikh history into Tamil I was meted out humiliating treatment in the committee office,'' he said. When Contacted Gurbachan Singh Bachan, Secretary, SGPC, said that he did not remember meeting Kandasamy Singh but he would definitely go through the complaint letter written to the president.``It is wrong to say that he was meted out such treatment because he was appointed by a former president. There is more than 90 per cent of the preachers appointed by Tohra and it did not mean that we would treat them discriminately. I would personally look into the matter and his grievances would be redressed,'' said Bachan.

Mehtab Singh, part of the discussion process is alright but could you tell me why the thread 'Respect of other religions' was locked? First two pages were appeasing the political correct thinking but as soon as Sikhs posted who did not fall for the political correctness it was locked?