singh987

I doubt such a verdict you be accepted. That is my observation. It seems to me that Sampradaa's enjoy their right to their own opinions and customs. Akal Takhat Sahib has issued several contradictory and conflicting hukamnamey in the past that a common person like me doesn't know WHICH one to believe! I have no biased opinion towards (neither against nor pro) dasam granth.. I have been actively researching the topic to establish a stance! There's too much fragmentation - everyone has thier own story.. all the information needs to be sifted and sorted!! Thats my two cents! Gurfateh.

When you have nothing constructive or of value to add to the discussion, people like you brand others as "Nindaks" and call an end to the discussion. Typical! Doesn't bother me though - all this "internet" courage and bhagtee - You people know your reality! :lol: People like you make me laugh. :D I don't see qwerty replying to my post and actually SHOWING ME where I have done nindeya! I have sneaky suspicion that bsgill and qwerty are actually the same person.

Excellent post Veer-Ji. You get to the core issue's that most would choose to ignore. I also contemplate whether the Khalsa nation/homeland was meant to be a metaphorical one or as well as a goegraphical one.. I read a thread a while ago about what the khalistan would encompass. Some of the suggestions/views made me laugh. Lets try to be good sikhs first and then worry about what our emblem/logo's/calendar's would look like. Besides, everyday is a shaheedi/prakash utsav for a gursikh. No 1 day is more or less special than another! Look around you - see him and his creation in all, everyone and everything. Akaaal Hi Akaaal! Tuhi, Tuhi, Tuhi, Tuhi, Tuhi, Tuhi, Tuhi, Tuhi, Tuhi, Tuhi, Tuhi. Lets make a pranh and beg our guru sahib to show us the way to be united and help us to walk on the path that they outlined for us. TO UNITY! TO ONE NATION! TO THE KHALSAPANTH! Bole So Nihaal - Sat Sri Akaal!

I'm sorry qwerty, can you please be a dear and highlight where i've tried to do nindeya of Bhai Ranjit Singh? My initial comment was that babbu mann topic was blown way out of proportion and self imposed by the sant samaaj, following this and reading bsgill's reply the essense of my subsequent posts was that I don't agree with how the awastha's and title's of "sant" "bramhgiyani" "mahapurakh" have been bought right down.. But do tell me exactly what nindeya I've done. Look forward to your response! Gurfateh.

Not necessarily, those who are absorbed by their own ego's can never change. Look at Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Son's, there are countless examples. Again stop trying to present me as someone who hates "sants" or the word sant - I assure you, I am an amrit dhari gursikh and have no such hatred! You're a cunning person. Eh? Again most allegations you've fabricated. I never mentioned about "controling" the sangat or anything. What's your point with all these baseless comments? There are large gatherings at pop concerts - they control crowds too. what's your point? lol. Call me a lair, call me a fool, call me blind. Bhai Ranjit Singh reads literature, books and articles. I have seen it myself - if you don't believe this then so help you god! Fair point - I will not refer to dharna's / dhadhi vaaran as kachi bani in the future - Thank you. Your second point however is utter rubbish. People follow Ram Rahim, Bhainearey waala, Ashutosh - they must also do this for some reason too. More of the same baseless rubbish coming from you. Of course not!! I never suggested there should be karaamaat's or iteration of "bani"!! What a preposterous and ridiculous interpretation of my comments! - Did Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Khalsa write his own bani or show karaamaatan to show his awastha! Do not call me a panearey waala follower. This head bows only to our 11 Guru's and the almighty. If you need to spew hatred against me, odan gaalan kad la - but do not accuse me of following some pakhandi! How is the place or time going to change anything? I edited my previous post and answered this there. Where did I say one shouldn't sing dharna? Where did I say show me chamatkaars? where does gurbani says I shouldn't see a sant in a teapot? What's your point? You think my argument/viewpoint/statements are baseless and weak because I refuse to quote Gurbani at every instance to help me to make a stand? You referenced Bhagat Naam Dev Ji in the previous post, I showed you how that shabad can be used in both sides of our debate. -Go read my last post again. Another example - you quoted "Bramhgiyani ki gath Bramhgiyani jaanae" - well by this logic - you nor I know anything about Bhai Sahib's Awastha, unless you also claim to be a Bhramhgiyani. Secondly since the general sikh public has bestowed titles like "sant" "mahapurakh" "bramhgiyani" onto many person, surely they must all also be bramhgiyani's for knowing said person's awastha. - See my point? For starters we're not arguing, I think of this more as a discussion - lets say aimed at helping me see your outlook. You're not wasting your time - if my outlook on a sacha mahapurakh is incorrect, then you are a wadbhaaga gursikh who can help a fool like me. Look - We're not arguing, you're trying to make defensive statements on things that I DON'T doubt!! I DO believe there are sant's and mahapurakhs! I DON'T want to do anyone's nindeya - and I have tried my best to no do nindeya - you can see through all my posts. Your comments like "you will not understand" show that you know your arguments are baseless so you try to cover yourself by trying to say that I don't believe in Sahib Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji. What a lowly way to carry out a debate and how cunning of you!! I hope it's clear to you that you have your viewpoint and I have mine - this is not a competition to say "I am right and you're not". Stop being cunning and trying to accuse me of being a pakhandi/nindak or whatever comes into your mind. I am an amrit dhari gursikh and proud of it! A final comment - you clearly don't posses the knowledge to even understand my query let alone provide an adequate answer. I will wait for a gursikh who does. Thanks for the good discussion anyway! Gurfateh.

That's a fair point, However, you've dodged my question. I asked whether Bhai Sahib's bachan's are indicative of their high awastha, most of Bhai Sahib's deewan's centre around sikh ithiaas, dharna's and some simran. You question my respect for Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa - well they're awastha was shown by their understanding of bani - ability to do viyakhya of chaldi bani - and their nitnemi jeevan. Furthermore - my dad spent some (not a lot) of time with Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale at darbar sahib, he tells me of thier 'noor', aura, persona and presence! All these were indications of thier high awastha. Furthermore thier bachans also indicated thier awastha - comments like "Physical death I do not fear, but death of the conscience is a sure death" do not get uttered by your average joe. Bhaaji, this statement doesn't hold up. Sangat doesn't disrespect learned pracharaks! People in the UK have regular rehansabahi's and you talk about not listening to bani for 10 minutes! LOL! How man 25 year old do I know with Gurmat knowledge? Quite a few actually - You'll find people abroad are not as manmukh as people in india/punjab. Whilst Bhai Ranjit Singh has been on "tour" in the UK, I had the privilege to spend some time with him. I have seen Bhai Sahib's preparations for deewan's take place in thier car - last minute catching up of the day's topics. Again nothing wrong with this. But Bhai Sahib's knowledge is gained through research and literature, just like any other pracharak. I'm sorry I made no such comments - you have me confused with someone else. Please don't fabricate nonsense! Personally no - I haven't spent a night at thier dera. I am however close (family friend) to a few members of thier jatha who HAVE and STILL do spend time with them, going on tours to america / england. Trust me, their (members of the jatha - not Bhai Ranjit Singh) antics are not worth discussing - that WOULD be nindeya and I'm not going to elaborate on that. I fail to see how they can be in the sharan and sangat of a learned "mahapurakh" and be so childish themselves! I am not talking negatively about Bhai Ranjit Singh - He is truly doing brilliant prachaar!! Please re-read my posts, I've always apologised if I've come across negatively and have stated my views are my own. Again - why are you comparing apples to oranges? Dhadhi's also don't have 100's of 1000's of "followers" who address them as "sant"... but this is besides the point. How many dhadhi's can you remember who attained "sant" "mahapurakh" "bramhgyani" awastha? - Poems and Kachi bani will only take you so far - je paar langhna hai ta naam da hi sahara laina paina. Re-read my post I said something along these lines when I explained what "sant" "bramhgiyani" "mahapurrakh" is. These awastha's mean one see's god in god's creation! So what's your point? A high awastha is required to see saintliness in god's creation... Which is why Bhagat Naam Dev Ji saw god. Did the dog see god in Bhagat Naam Dev Ji? Moreover, Are you saying that the majority of the common folks or lets say general public's awastha is high enough that they see mahapurakh/sant in Bhai Ranjit Singh? - I hope you can see the point I'm raising. Personally I couldn't care less - Like I said before - today it's one person in 5 years time it'll be someone else! Akaalpurakh is the ONLY entity we are to worship - we all strive to enter akaalpurakh's domain! Our guru's, bhagats, all enlightened beings have access to this domain! What is the word Guru? It means teacher. Who can teach? Someone who has knowledge. Our guru's had access akaalpurakh - They proved this by scribing his word in the form of Gurbani. THATs Why we call them guru's, They PROVED their status! - But What's your point?! What does this have to do with anything? - I have met him in 2006/2007/2008. Theek hai veer ji, I'm a moorakh. Which is why I said, If I am wrong - please do help lead me on the right path. I would however request that you re-read my previous post and actually resolve my queries rather than raising baseless points which provide no gurmat gyaan at all! Although I didn't appreciate your cunning tactics where you question my respect for Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa - Keep to the topic we're discussing, don't bring in other issues such as Dasam Granth and so on! By your method we might as well as bring in discussions about Quantum Computing too! Gurfateh!

@bsgill Firstly Bhaji, You've mixed up your replies to myself and m16 - no issue there though. I am not jealous of how rich Bhai Ranjit Singh is or isn't... It makes no difference to me, there are many richer and many poorer people on this planet - an example being those who donate goods to Bhai sahib do so because they are in a position to do so. Waheguru has given me my share of satkaar - much much much more than I deserve. Again - there are more popular and less popular people than Bhai Sahib - This kind of statement equates to nothing for me. I and Bhai Sahib cannot really be compared in many ways - I have absolutely NOTHING to be jealous about!! You didn't answer my question about why you believe or what evidence is there that Bhai Sahib is already at mahapurakh or bhramgyan awastha? Personally I don't believe these awastha's are attainable by 99.999% of people. What is bramhgyan/mahapurakh awastha? IMO It is the awastha of our guru sahibaan's - being able to see akaalpurakh in all his creation. How many sant's are you willing to compare to our guru sahibaan's?... Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji, does a lot of prachaar and many kirtan darbaars - so does every single established ragi singh out there and every single "sant" from every jathebandi - (granted not at the same scale) but are they all at mahapurakh/sant awastha? -of course not! Again, I pray to akaalpurakh ki mere varga paapi vi os akaalpurakh da naa lai sakey. I do not slander Bhai Sahib's efforts of prachaar, I praise them. You state that a true gursikh doesn't state or share his awastha - agreed 100%. That is why such gursikhs do not advertise themselves! They reveal them selves to a few and they have their reasons to do so. I stated my personal experience as a comparison - it was one of the strongest experiences of my life, it was no karamaat or chamatkaar. It was simply the power of bani that I could see flowing through this gursikh. I have not mentioned his name/location or anything like that. Think of this - why do we read bani? Because we know it is a proven way to align one's mind to be able to access the domain of akaalpurakh. Such is the power of bani!.. Now if I took some poem/song or other writings which may/may not have been written by someone who has attained true spirituality and had 100's of thousands of people recite them, would that be doing them the same good as Gurbani? - personally I believe not - yes I don't dispute such 'kachi bani' may help in some way... it cannot be compared to the power of Dhur Ki Baani - or naam simran. Bhai Sahib re-iterates ithiaas, saakhi's and engages sangat in some simran - which of Bhai Sahib's bachan's are indicative of Bhai Sahib's high awastha? - What am I failing to see? Everytime I have exchanged bachan/ met with Bhai Ranjit Singh - I have seen Krodh, lobh, moh and anhankaar - with which I have no problem, I am a bigger paapi than Bhai Sahib. But Gurbani states the qualities of a "sant" as someone who should have tamed the 5 bhoots to a high degree, if not completely. I have simply not experienced this with Bhai Sahib and I have met him 3/4 times over 3/4 years - I hope you understand where I am coming from. Finally I just want to say - who am I? 1 of 6 Billion+ people. I am a nobody, I have no desire to attract a following through my views. I simply wanted to share my views. I have no desire to exaggerate meaningless issues or to put down any Gursikh. Today Bhai Ranjit Singh is in the public domain, in 10 years time it'll be someone else and so on. It will always go on as it has! However I don't think that the general public should not be mis-led by people who jump on bandwagon's to call someone "mahapurakh" with no evidence to support such titles. All we're doing is lowering the status of titles such as "sant" "mahapurakh" "bramhgiyani. Please do answer my questions, because if I am wrong or my thinking is being over shadowed, I would definitely like to change it!! Gurfateh jio.

Erm... so what's your point exactly? :S Are trying to say Dasam Granth delivers a message which IS in line with gurmat or ISN'T?

Just what I need at this point in my life. Thank you so much Jassa Paaji! Gurfateh.

Gurfateh jio, I don't dispute that you're closer to Bhai Ranjit Singh, But Gurbani gives us the 'kasvati' (scale) to see what a true sant is like by nature - That kasvati is the root of my personal view. The 3/4 times I have exchanged bachan with Bhai Sahib, I have not felt the aura of a "mahapurakh". Of course, Bhai Sahib's awastha will change over the course of his jeewan.. and I will openly praise him with the title of "sant" when that happens. But please do state why you believe Bhai Sahib is already at mahapurakh awastha? When I have been in the presence of a true dasam pita da gursikh, his aura was so so intense, it caused me to experience tunnel vision. Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru. I apologise again if I have come across as a nindak. - Jan Nanak Dhoor Mangai Tis Gursikh Ki, Jo Aap Japai Awaraih Naam Japavaih.. No-one can dispute Bhai Sahib's seva and parchaar. I don't side with anyone singh sahib, my views are my own and not aimed at winning support from anyone or trying to support anyone else. Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Interesting discussion. I think the general public is too emotional in thier reactions. For Example, If some sant/baba gets portrayed in a bad light, 95% of people change their stance and distance themselves from said baba in an instant. Similarly, when something good is portrayed the same 95% of people want to be as close to the sant/baba to try and gain some attention. Personally, I don't care what babbu mann sings!! I think the issue was SELF IMPOSED by the sant samaaj. ALL parties involved made an episode out of a small thing, which really shouldn't have been discussed at so much length. I don't even see it as an issue TBH, so I have nothing further to add on the episode. I personally KNOW a few singh's (3) from Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale's jatha, who have done seva for 3-4 years with him. All I will say is, he is doing excellent seva for the panth, but bhai sahib is not at bramhgiyani, mahapurakh, sant level. That said, I don't condone people doing nindeya of anyone who does gurbani parchaar... So, don't take my comments negatively. I'm not a guru nindak or anti sikh or whatever some people on the forum may brand me as. My views have emerged having spent time with Bhai sahib and members of the jatha. No-one is born perfect, or as a bramhgiyani, through seva, simran and guru bakhish we can learn to love the naam daan that akaalpurakh has left for us. Yes we're sheep and need a leader - but guru sahib is with us! we don't need anyone else to claim to lead us when we have our shabad guru with us!!!

I would assume that it's an urdu phrase to praise Sant Ji.. "baba-e-kaum" would mean saint of the khalsa/sikh panth and "mard-e-mujahid" equates to "man of god"? My translation may not be a 100% spot on as I don't know much urdu, but that's what I would break it down to. Hope that helps.

Waheguru jio, Guru sahibaan mehar karan, mere vargey paapiyan nu vi naam daan, rehat daan bakhshan! Dhan Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj!

Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Jan Nanak dhoor mangey, tis gursikh ki, jo aap japai avreah naam japaaveah. Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru

@Sarbat da Pala: Why have you pasted this so called "chat" transcript? It's utter nonsense and doesn't need to be here. Please edit your post and remove this crap - it's clearly utter fake nonsense. Gurfateh.

But in this thread no-one has questioned Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or Dasam Granth, just maryada was questioned. Is it still righteous to raise the sword? - we are 2% of the world population, shall we raise the sword on the other 98% that doesn't agree with us? - or better still, lets raise it on the other 1.8% of us which are lost and mis-guided, that'll fix the problem! I don't understand what people are bragging about - what's the worst that can be done? You'll beat each other up? Break a few bones? Kill one another? - aaho that's how you'll wash your sins and help you fellow human being/sikh veer wash theirs. Plus, these kind of hollow threats don't scare off everyone.. some people have no fear of expressing their views, and they don't need to advertise it. Jadon guru da danda varna ah, koi awaaj nahi auni. Anyhow, I won't hijack this thread any longer. I'm sorry I just had to get that out of my system. Gurfateh.

Gurmukho, I'm pretty new to the community here, but my god am I shocked at some people's arrogance... what with all the threatening going on? Why are sikhs threatening other sikhs? - "oh If your weren't so scared, why didn't you come and raise your viewpoint?" I honestly believe some people have forgotten sikhi's true kind nature. Yes - pick the the sword when you need to, not at your own people...! To be perfectly honest, it's an abysmal state of affairs. Har kisey da apna hi panth nirala hai ajj kalh. But SHAME on the people that start oppressing others and enforcing their own religious views by threatening others. Might isn't right, Tyrants are always mighty. We bear arms to protect peoples beliefs, when did this change to enforcing beliefs? It's laughable how some people think they are in chardi kala with all this haumai and ahankaar.

Is zafarnama not a composition of dashamesh pita? Of course it is.Then why should not it be added. I may ask in the same way why Guru teg bahadar's bani was added? S. Inder Singh, you are coming off as a bit too hard on me, analysing deeply every word of my comments, I get the feeling that you think I am anti dasam baani. Well, I'm just trying to gain information and correct knowledge, so please assist with that. Please don't try to blow things out of context. Your statement holds no relevance to my quesiton, our Guru sahibaans were distinguished poets and learned individuals. They wrote many things, not all of it was baani... see my point? They CLEARLY collated the word of god into the form of Sri. Guru Granth Sahib. Earlier on you commented that all bani's of dasam granth had input of dasam pita. My reply was based on the information that bhforce paaji provided and my own understanding, my intention was to highlight the importance ANY of guru sahib's written baani. Please don't try and corner me on that opinion. I am afterall trying to establish if there is collusion of hindu mat in the dasam granth in its current form. On another note, I really HATED one of the video's by the nihang singh from tarna dal where he states (in his opinion) that if someone questions dasam granth then nihang singh's/khalsa singh's should just beat them up or "sodha laa dau". Well i'm sorry, if we start doing that how are we any different from the moghuls who opressed and scared people into following their religious beliefs. Anyhow, I will continue reading and thank BhForce paaji once more. Edit: I thought I mentioned this but clearly forgot: Gur Teg bahadur's baani was added because space was LEFT intentionally in SGGSJ by 5th paatshah for the saloks of 9th paathshah. They also ordained at that time that 9th paathshah will iterate more baani from akaalpurakh and that 6th,7th & 8th paathshaahi will not be adding any more baani.

Gurfateh, Excellent discussion so far guys, great contributions.. special thanks to BhForce bhaaji, loved your post. Ah, I didn't know this.. thanks for posting the puratan saroop info too.. helps a lot. A question, why was zafarnama added, we could have had the same compilation as dasam pita had created? Very much truth, yet they miss the entire point. OK let's call 2/3 the same as in the Hindu granths. It's the 1/3 that's important. It's in the 1/3 that: Guru Gobind Singh ji clarifies that the Avatars are not God The Avatars only had limited power as compared to God People should view weapons as the devi, and Guruji encourages people to take up arms instead of being cowards and waiting for a devi Shows the real status of the Avatars as being subject to Lust and Anger, etc., so how could they be God? Add additional material which is not found in the Hindu granths, and in which we could discern some meaning if we put our minds to it. Yes! this is exactly what my thoughts were. even if one baani was written by dasam pita, surely its a great boon for us sikhs! if there wasn't much collusion why was there a sodak committee (for knowledge's sake) Bhai sahib, is this because of the sant/sipahi concept? with guru granth sahib providing sant sikhiya and dasam granth providing sipahi sikhiya? Or is this just your personal opinion.. Please clarify For now, I have much to read/watch.. Thanks you very much for your kind assistance.

Singh sahib, this is a terrible question. You shouldn't need to ask how to do your own laundry!

Forgive me for saying this, but if as khalsa we're now going to start questioning whether we can marry another gursikh then it's a sad day for us. Shame on us for being so broken and divided. Shame on us for forgetting what guru sahibaan tried to teach us. Shame on us.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh. I'm new to this entire issue, I'm researching/reading around to gain information, I took amrit at a very young age so lack knowledge in many areas. I'll try best to explain my understanding quickly. I've had a few discussions with the youth, elderly, listened to katha and have been watching quite a lot of youtube matter related to this topic. -lecture by learned nihung singh - against dasam granth part 1-6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ndGV9Y - Tarna Dal Granthi Singh part 1-2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBkNRd - History of dasam granth - Taksaal stance on Dasam Granth part 1-2 I am an amrit-dhaari gursikh and wish to query some things about the compilation of the dasam granth. Please understand that I mean no disrespect or offence to anyone, I understand this is a sensitive topic but it must and should be discussed. Guys, for me, as it stands -> I'm well confused. I come here with no bias pro/against dasam granth and I will say as a gursikh, I can never ever doubt any baani written by dhan dhan dasam pita. May my breath be taken away in an instant if such thoughts were to even come close to my mind. My question is about the compilation of the current pothi/saroop of dasam granth. As far as I can gather, the present dasam granth saroop was not compiled by dhan dhan guru gobind singh sahib ji, but, at nanded sahib after massa ranghar's head was bought back? prior to this dasam granth was a collection of pothi's? (Please shed more light on this..) Can some learned singh/singhaniya please clarify if the current saroop of dasam granth was compiled as per dasam pita's original compilation which was lost during the vichorra? (is this even true?) Some "anti" party people have said that - dasam granth has been colluded with writings from hindu pothi's. How much truth is there in this? In the anti video's I came across, the guy leading the nindeya says 2/3rds of the saroop is of hindu writings - he references this with hindu books. I'm perfectly fine with guru sahib using saakhi's to aid explanation, however I wanted clarification because I believe people who are in my position are just getting biased views - either completely against dasam granth or giving it complete guru ship as was the case in a few videos I watched. Some anti party people mentioned that it was hindu run printing presses which colluded our baani with their own matter to attack sikhi.. As I mentioned before, I have no questions about dasam pita's writings. He is the supreme commander of the khalsa panth and I am a low-life paapi, however, this paapi mind starts thinking when it hears things which often mislead it. I just want some clarification. Again sangat ji, bhul chuk maaf karni, I am in no position to question baani.. I feel awkward just asking these questions, but I don't want to suppress them in my mind. Obviously any baani uttered by dasam pita is a gold mine for us paapi's, but do writings like the zafarnama hold spiritual relevance? (I don't know much about it but I thought this was a letter addressed to a moghul emperor who went back on his word?) Finally one thing eating at me is, Akalpurakh and/or guru would never leave the khalsa in any distress.. why has this issue gone un-solved for once and for all for ~300 years?! why is the common sikh - not highly spiritual like me just getting to hear about this - why is this an issue at all?! It's nearly 3 am! Please post your thoughts and correct me if I have gather incorrect information. Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh

Wjkk, Wjkf! i have been browsing the forum for a couple of days.... and i thought this is the place to ask/tell about some issues i have. i don't really know where to begin or how i'm going to express myself here, same in real life really and i end up not telling anyone. the general discussion is about gurughars.... and how i feel about them. i attend my local gurughar nearly everyday and have been doing so since i moved from india. At first when i was less involed the thought of the sikhi being so deep here amazed me. But as time went by and now i'm getting more and more involved in the gurghar, i have seen many things which i woudn't want to see.... then i feel that its the same everywhere... do forgive me but the politics that goes on in some places is deep down low... yet people show others that they are propers gursikhs where as all thy seemed to have gained is eerkha. not all people are the same... there are true gursikhs there.. but the thought of these people... i mean it's detaching me from the gurughar i wish i'd never known about these things!! and now when i'm there and i see people i thihnk about them... instead of paying attention on gurbani.... i don;t really know what to do i wonder if someone can help. i don't appreciate the idea (and i'v seen it being done many self nearly all the time) that people only have "dikhawa" they show to be quite something.. but as you get to know how they think it really puts you off... on top of this there's hypocirtism oh god here i go on with the list! it goes on foever lol.... i'm sure u guys know what i mean adn i don't really wana contiue down this line because i will just get angry! Coming to the point.... where has the shanti gone from the gurughars??? why is there arguments there? i mean people are to go there to put there differences aside yet i see people making differences on a dialy basis and this isn't just one place... Whats wrong with our people we have sdo much eerkha and jalan (jelousy) that we have started to corrupt the highest of places? and what kinda effect it has on the younger generation... i mean (besides the gursikhs out there) people attend the gurudrawa to socialise more then to meet the guru. and these regular programs they hold (sukhmani sahibs etc) it isn't a bad thing its very good.. but they end up calling there relatives to show off and don't even listen to half of the baani. heh! sorry but i'm waffeling again! i think this is the biggest issue we should face at the moment, the issue to clean sikhi up from the inside... our cultrue our religion is a beautiful gift .. a gift which the guru's and gursiukhs gave with their life and we repay them like this???? All i say is waheguru watches everything so lokan dey pakhand keetey kithey jaaney aa? i ask for forgiveness if i have instuled/offended anyone indirectly... i just wanted some one's opinion on this and i want to know how i can overlook these things and get rid of the tension in my brian, due to which i have trouble concentrating on anything!!! i bet you have of this post deosn't even make sense cuz i probably went off the issue! lol but hey i have too much going on in here!! sorry for boring you. Wjkk, Wjkf! -= R SiNGH =-

Waheguru ji Ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh! Firstly i'd like to thank the admins/founders of the forum, nice job! i'v only just found it!! the other thing is that i have seen some posts where people have been asking for kirtan. i myself use irc and have started sharing gurbani too. at the moment i am just trialing the idea as i am in a desi/punjabi channel on irc (for those who are familiar) and with the channels admin's help they'v arranged for a 10MBit Bot to host the files. I am continusly ripping gurbani cd's and putting them online @ very high quality. If all geos well and people do show interest then we can expand on the idea in some way. As it stands now i have uploaded 55 cd's and have about 130 more to uplaod.. so you can expect to find around 200 albums on irc and be able to download from a 10Mbit bot. please do show your support because as you probably know it's hard to get a new thing going! the other thing is we're all giving it our time becauise we want to distribute gurbani to all sikhs we're not getting any money or anything like that. If anyone is interested in helping to upload please do e-mail me @ rsallrules@hotmail.com but the main idea of this post is to give every1 the info on how to download the Gurbani Kirtan! For those who use irc you can find me (SiNGH) on /server irc.gigairc.net on channel #pr-mp3 & files are hosted on [pR]-Mp3-Religion bot. if you aren't familiar then you can download mirc client from mirc.com and then go to www.ircspy.com search for a keyword like singh or bhai to find the packs and connect to irc through there! if you still have trouble you can email me for assistance. once again your support will be appreciated! & please do come to check out the effort! thanks once agian -=R SiNGH=- Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh!