BarinderSingh

ਮੁਖ ਭਗ 9 मुख भग 9 CHAPTER 9 ੩੩ ਸਵੈਯੇ ३३ सवैये THIRTY-THREE SWAYYAS ੴ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹ ॥ ੴ स्री वाहिगुरू जी की फतह ॥ The Lord is One and the Victory is of the Lord. ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥ स्री मुखवाक पातिशाही १०॥ The utterance from the holy mouth of the Tenth King : ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥ सवैया ॥ SWAYYA ਜਾਗਤਿ ਜੋਤ ਜਪੈ ਨਿਸ ਬਾਸੁਰ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਨ ਨੈਕ ਨ ਆਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਸਜੈ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਗੋਰ ਮੜੀ ਮਟ ਭੂਲ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ जागति जोत जपै निस बासुर एक बिना मन नैक न आनै ॥ पूरन प्रेम प्रतीत सजै ब्रत गोर मड़ी मट भूल न मानै ॥ He is the true Khalsa (Sikh), who remembers the ever-awakened Light throughout night and day and does not bring anyone else in the mind; he practices his vow with whole heated affection and does not believe in even by oversight, the graves, Hindu monuments and monasteries; ਤੀਰਥ ਦਾਨ ਦਇਆ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹ ਏਕ ਪਛਾਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਜੋਤ ਜਗੈ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਖਾਲਸ ਤਾਹਿ ਨਖਾਲਸ ਜਾਨੈ ॥੧॥ तीरथ दान दइआ तप संजम एक बिना नह एक पछानै ॥ पूरन जोत जगै घट मै तब खालस ताहि नखालस जानै ॥१॥ He does not recognize anyone else except One Lord, not even the bestowal of charities, performance of merciful acts, austerities and restraint on pilgrim-stations; the perfect light of the Lord illuminates his heart, then consider him as the immaculate Khalsa.1. ang 1351 http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=1351&english=t&id=119503

Yoga is a cheap "medicine". Its like eating chocolate knowing the taste will only last for a short while. Yoga does not attack the true problem that resides in a person who is stressed, depressed, or facing other emotional problems. Ever seen a Direct to Consumer commercial for depression medicine? "If are feeling as so and have problems doing a, b, and c this drug is for you? Ask your doctor about it" They use incomplete syllogism to make the viewer think he has the symptoms for depression. At this rate everyone in the world at the exception of a few would be on this drug (yoga). Truly, people that promote this incomplete syllogism fallacy argument have not heard of the true medicine. Go back to the sacrifice of Sri Guru Arjun Dev ji or sacrifices made by Bhai Sati Das and Bhai Mati Das. What are we missing? What do we need and what can we live without? Gurbani does not only rid a person of stress, depression, or other emotional problems, but shows (does it for you) a person how to manage these issues. Some call this management miracles, but Gurbani call them the benefit of following Gurbani (True Guru). Gurbani says in the pain to celebrate. ਜੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਤ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਅਰਾਧੀ ਦੁਖਿ ਭੀ ਤੁਝੈ ਧਿਆਈ जे सुखु देहि त तुझहि अराधी दुखि भी तुझै धिआई ॥२॥ Je sukẖ ḏėh ṯa ṯujẖėh arāḏẖī ḏukẖ bẖī ṯujẖai ḏẖi▫ā▫ī. ||2|| If You will bless me with happiness, then I will worship and adore You. Even in pain, I will meditate on You. ||2|| ਜੇ ਭੁਖ ਦੇਹਿ ਤ ਇਤ ਹੀ ਰਾਜਾ ਦੁਖ ਵਿਚਿ ਸੂਖ ਮਨਾਈ जे भुख देहि त इत ही राजा दुख विचि सूख मनाई ॥३॥ Je bẖukẖ ḏėh ṯa iṯ hī rājā ḏukẖ vicẖ sūkẖ manā▫ī. ||3|| Even if You give me hunger, I will still feel satisfied; I am joyful, even in the midst of sorrow. ||3|| ang 757 Yoga taken from the ancient vedas is caught in the fire of three qualities (gunas) and does not know how to show the way to the fourth state. For this reason they cannot go beyond good and bad. They see stress as bad and Gurbani corrects this by saying stress is not bad, but your concept is wrong. Gurbani says living in good and bad is living in duality. Surely, yoga can provide that moment of good (release from stress), but it does not last. Gurbani shows the way on how to gain that eternal peace by going above good and bad. What is the issue according to Gurbani? Gurbani says you are lacking in something in your life. This something is a gem which cannot be replicated or substituted with anything else. Ultimately Gurbani calls it Satgur Parsad (blessing of the true Guru). We humans need his Parsad for peace. It is very important to note when given this parsad, no pain in the world can take this eternal peace. As parents we want the best for our children and don't want them to suffer. So the parent holds back the candy, while watching the child cry for the candy. The parent knows the effects of such short lived pleasures will hurt the child for the years to come. The Guru sees us as his children and provides us with specific instructions on how to receive this Parsad from him. The bad children that turn their faces away from the parents always chase after short lived adventures and peace. They tell the parents you don't know anything and are fools. The parents at this point watch the child go through the turmoil of this short lived pleasure waiting for the child to wake up from the deep sleep and come back home. Why do people turn to yoga (short lived pleasure) because most of the time they want an easy way out. It can also be the result of Sikh garb wearing people are promoting these false pleasures as the way to true peace. It's time for these children to wake up and come back home. Enough time has been spent in the turmoil. Enough time has been spent in the three qualities (gunas). Take one step toward the Guru and the Guru takes thousands of steps toward you. Give up selfish behavior; it has only driven you further from the Guru.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਚਾਰ ਹੀ ਬੇਦ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਕ ਤਿਹ ਕਰਮ ਚਲਾਏ ॥ ब्रहमा चार ही बेद बनाए ॥ सरब लोक तिह करम चलाए ॥ Brahma composed all the four Vedas, all the people followed the injunctions contained in them. ਜਿਨ ਕੀ ਲਿਵ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ ਤੇ ਬੇਦਨ ਤੇ ਭਏ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥੧੯॥ जिन की लिव हरि चरनन लागी ॥ ते बेदन ते भए तिआगी ॥१९॥ Those who were devoted to the Feet of the Lord, they abandoned the Vedas.19.

Sampardas Gursikhs saw Gurbani as unique and vedas as no where close to Gurbani. Vedas writer was not able to comprehend Vaheguru while writing the vedas and niether could he after. Framework of vedas is based on finite knowledge. Framework of Gurbani is based on infinite knowledge. Framework of Gurbani is the Guru in all his forms. Vedas is a collection of doubt, misunderstanding, ignorance, and ego. Vedas is written by a devta fighting with Vaheguru trying to understand Vaheguru but ends up revering maya. The creater of vedas is struggling to understand creation. Gurbani framework is no struggle to understand but to show the way.

Please dont go against actual Sants like Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji because of the misrepresentation by this poster. I think these type of people are here to create divisions and hatred toward Gursikhs. This is not a debate against sampardas but the misrepresentation of sampardas. These evil forces have been put in Sikh circles to divide and conquer. Sampardas and other gursikhs saw eye to eye on majority of topics. I agree with Bijla Singh. All insults and no proof.

Sarbat Da Bhalla is not such a simple concept to grasp as it is being made out to be. Sarbat Da Bhalla in Indira Gandhi's case was to take her out. This is Sarbat Da Bhalla because for one it happened in Hukam. Everything happens in Hukam so it is Sarbat Da Bhalla. Vaheguru never thinks bad for anyone. Then again this term is not understood because the people using it will cheer on their sports team, hoping and waiting for the other team to lose. Sarbat Da Bhalla is on a temporal level still in Hukam will look for the "greater good" (can't find a term to define it, so just call it greater good). Take Indira Gandhi. She showed her true colors and the world knew she was on a rampage to wipe out Sikhs. Beant Singh and Satwant Singh did the greater good for her and rest of the world. They took her out. If she continued to live, she would have continued to kill and cause destruction. Many attempts were made for her to understand and talk the issue out before the attack of 1984. She refuse to have a peaceful deal. Much more destruction would have continued to happen if she lived. Khushwant Singh is no saint or should ever deserve praise from Sikhs. For Kushwant Singh to call for the attack of Sri Darbar Sahib and blow it up shows how less he cared for religious places and human life. I cannot even imagine saying to anyone to attack a Hindu Mandir or Muslim Mosque no matter what these two groups did to us in the past centuries or will do. He was a selfish man looking for his own glory even at the cost of others lives. You cannot force a person to become a Saint or try to follow moral and ethical ways of life. In this case Sarbat Da Bhalla did take place as Khushwant Singh refuse to change his ways. So there is no other way other than the sound of the Dharamraj hammer hitting the head.

Have you read Bachittar Natak?

Thank you everyone for there answers. Is there anyone in north america or in the uk?

You should read the words written of the Sikh Gurus. There teachings are compiled in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If you start asking Sikhs, they will direct you in the wrong direction 99% of the time. There are alot of debates constantly taking place on main practices of Sikhi. To ignore all the chaos go directly to reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. For a link to read Sri Guru Granth Sah8b ji type into google search: Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji english translation. There is a pdf file that will come in the search. This link will take you directed to it. Just as you slowly discovered Sikhi in your life. Slowly learn from the Gurus teachings. Two teaches that you need to know before reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib. 1.Sikhs only believe in one God and his 11 Gurus who teach God's way of living. 2. If you become a Sikh. Only bow before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as Your Guru. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the current and for all of time Guru of the Sikhs.

Where can I get a good dilruba from. It will br shipped to canada Please help.

Many people listen to rags and they find it very soothing and relaxing. Many times Sikhs also are caught up into this false soothing and relaxing rituals. The Guru speaks on listening to raags directly here: ਰਾਗਿ ਨਾਦਿ ਮਨੁ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ रागि नादि मनु दूजै भाइ ॥ Rāg nāḏ man ḏūjai bẖā▫e. In raag and song, the mind is deeply caught by the love of duality. ( I corrected the mistakes the translator made) ਅੰਤਰਿ ਕਪਟੁ ਮਹਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਇ अंतरि कपटु महा दुखु पाइ ॥ Anṯar kapat mahā ḏukẖ pā▫e. Filled with deception deep within, one suffers in terrible pain. ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟੈ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਇ सतिगुरु भेटै सोझी पाइ ॥ Saṯgur bẖetai sojẖī pā▫e. Meeting with the True Guru, one is blessed with clear understanding, ਸਚੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਰਹੈ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ सचै नामि रहै लिव लाइ ॥४॥ Sacẖai nām rahai liv lā▫e. ||4|| and remains lovingly attuned to the True Name. ||4||

Im sorry you feel that way but there was no abuse from my end.

Basically this is the wrong way. Sing, listen, and read Gurbani. I will look later on this in Gurbani but I am certain Guru Sahib speaks against these practices. Chandi di Vaar is one Bani that will give you the true essences.

Naam Sunae, Naam Sangrehai, Naamae Liv Laavo I hear the Naam, and I gather in the Naam(Nam Simran); I am lovingly attuned to the Naam(merging in Nam) Raag Gauri Guru Arjan Dev I dont wonder because i know Sants have received knowledge from the only true Guru and they dont say focus alone on Nam Simran, but also do seva, and Dharm di kirat karni. Gurbani says only a Brahmgyani can know another Brahmgyani. How do you know who is a Brahmgyani? The word parsad does not come in the above Gurbani line. The Sadhu in this shabad is not giving anything. The Sadhu is telling the seeker to meditate on the Gurmantar. The word Dhasiaa means to tell and not to give. Very interesting to note here again is that it says Gurmantra. Meaning the Sadhu did not get this mantra by his own efforts, but was told by the Guru to medidate on Gurmantra and to tell others as well. In this whole shabad a person is getting instructions of who is the True Sant at first, what kind of instructions a True Sant would give, and lastly what to do and why. The line translates into: The Sadhu has shown the way to the seeker by telling the seeker to meditate on the Gurmantra. Yes and the Gurus are from Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Guru Guru Granth Sahib ji. They have the ability of Satgur Parsad and no one else. Surely others can claim they do have this ability, but Sikhs know by Gurbani that Gurparsad is only received by the 11 Gurus of the Sikhs. Barinder said: Gurmukhs put a lost soul in the correct path, but never take the place of the Guru. The Guru is Vaheguru and Vaheguru is the Guru. However the same does not work for a Gurmukh as it does work between Vaheguru and Guru. The Guru is not the production of Vaheguru but himself. A Gurmukh is a production of Vaheguru after following the specific instructions given by Shabad Guru to where Gurparsad was received to become a Gurmukh. The Gurmukh once was caught in maya, but the Guru was and never will be caught in maya. The above line does not say the Gurmukh is the Guru, but rather very clearly says the Gurmukh is the receiver and Vaheguru is the giver to the Gurmukh. It is not saying the Gurmukh gives the Amrit. The line translates into: Vaheguru is the Gurmukh, Vaheguru is the giver, and Vaheguru is the one who gives Amrit to the Gurmukh to drink it in. This specific line is planting the message of humility to the reader. Even though with Guru Sahibs kirpa you have become Gurmukh or will become a Gurmukh. It is Vaheguru who made it all happen or will make it happen. Dont lose yourself in ego and start thinking I am so great to follow such a noble and received the title of Gurmukh. Focus on the feet of the Guru and keep your attention on the Shabad Guru. You are on the hunt for tuks in Gurbani to support your previous post. Dont do this. This will drive you mad and deeper into ego. Let go and focus on the Shabad for what it is. Let the rain of the Shabad fall on your face and take in the message. You are not fighting me in this discussion, but yourself. Its an inner battle that has given you the illusion of being a battle to prove to me what you want to say.

Thank you for your response. I see where you are coming from, but once again I would disagree on some points. We are digressing from answering the question of what is Naam and how to achieve it. However the points you touched on are also important to address. I do agree with you here as I have seen it firsthand. There is a irrational fear with some people when the word Sant is said. However on both sides of the extreme there is a phobia. Those that push the Sant word use it incorrectly and attribute it very loosely where critical analyse is thrown out the door. I consider myself on no side of this debate . Gurbani perfectly says Sants do exist. It is no mystery to me or irrational fear they do not exist. Very correctly said, majority does not decide what is correct in Sikhi. The Guru is the judge in Sikhi. Do you know of any Shabad that supports this result of what Naam is? Can you please put down the ang number so everyone can have the benefit of quick access to the whole shabad. It makes everything easier when discussing Gurbani. What you say above is what you perceive Naam does, but doesnt say what Naam is. I somewhat agree, but will be searching more on this topic of what Naam does later. I was more interested in what Naam is. I believe you are translating the word Sadhu here wrongly. The Shabad starts with praising Vaheguru on how Vaheguru blesses a person with repeating his name. The central line in regards to the reference of Sadhu in this shabad is the following: ਜਬ ਤੇ ਸਾਧੂ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਪਾਏ ॥ਗੁਰ ਭੇਟਤ ਹਉ ਗਈ ਬਲਾਏ ॥ जब ते साधू संगति पाए ॥ गुर भेटत हउ गई बलाए ॥ Jab ṯe sāḏẖū sangaṯ pā▫e. Gur bẖetaṯ ha▫o ga▫ī balā▫e. Since I found the company of the Holy, and met the Guru, the demon of pride has departed. The company of the Sadhu is the Gurus sangat and along with the presence of the Guru my ego has burnt away. Taking the whole shabad the conclusion comes the Sadhu in this Shabad is the Guru. The shabad is presented below. Mājẖ mėhlā 5. Maajh, Fifth Mehl: ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵਉ ॥ प्रभ किरपा ते हरि हरि धिआवउ ॥ Parabẖ kirpā ṯe har har ḏẖi▫āva▫o. By God's Grace, I meditate on the Lord, Har, Har. ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਇਆ ਤੇ ਮੰਗਲੁ ਗਾਵਉ ॥ प्रभू दइआ ते मंगलु गावउ ॥ Parabẖū ḏa▫i▫ā ṯe mangal gāva▫o. By God's Kindness, I sing the songs of joy. ਊਠਤ ਬੈਠਤ ਸੋਵਤ ਜਾਗਤ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਸਗਲ ਅਵਰਦਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥ ऊठत बैठत सोवत जागत हरि धिआईऐ सगल अवरदाजीउ ॥१॥ Ūṯẖaṯ baiṯẖaṯ sovaṯ jāgaṯ har ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai sagal avraḏā jī▫o. ||1|| While standing and sitting, while sleeping and while awake, meditate on the Lord, all your life. ||1|| ਨਾਮੁ ਅਉਖਧੁ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਸਾਧੂ ਦੀਆ ॥ नामु अउखधु मो कउ साधू दीआ ॥ Nām a▫ukẖaḏẖ mo ka▫o sāḏẖū ḏī▫ā. The Holy Saint has given me the Medicine of the Naam. ਕਿਲਬਿਖ ਕਾਟੇ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਥੀਆ ॥ किलबिख काटे निरमलु थीआ ॥ Kilbikẖ kāte nirmal thī▫ā. My sins have been cut out, and I have become pure. ਅਨਦੁ ਭਇਆ ਨਿਕਸੀ ਸਭ ਪੀਰਾ ਸਗਲ ਬਿਨਾਸੇ ਦਰਦਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥ अनदु भइआ निकसी सभ पीरा सगल बिनासे दरदाजीउ ॥२॥ Anaḏ bẖa▫i▫ā niksī sabẖ pīrā sagal bināse ḏarḏā jī▫o. ||2|| I am filled with bliss, and all my pains have been taken away. All my suffering has been dispelled. ||2|| ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਅੰਗੁ ਕਰੇ ਮੇਰਾ ਪਿਆਰਾ ॥ जिस का अंगु करे मेरा पिआरा ॥ Jis kā ang kare merā pi▫ārā. One who has my Beloved on his side, ਸੋ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਸਾਗਰ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥ सो मुकता सागर संसारा ॥ So mukṯā sāgar sansārā. is liberated from the world-ocean. ਸਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਜਿਨਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਛਾਤਾ ਸੋ ਕਾਹੇ ਕਉ ਡਰਦਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥ सति करे जिनि गुरू पछाता सो काहे कउ डरदा जीउ ॥३॥ Saṯ kare jin gurū pacẖẖāṯā so kāhe ka▫o darḏā jī▫o. ||3|| One who recognizes the Guru practices Truth; why should he be afraid? ||3|| ਜਬ ਤੇ ਸਾਧੂ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਪਾਏ ॥ जब ते साधू संगति पाए ॥ Jab ṯe sāḏẖū sangaṯ pā▫e. Since I found the company of the Holy, ਗੁਰ ਭੇਟਤ ਹਉ ਗਈ ਬਲਾਏ ॥ गुर भेटत हउ गई बलाए ॥ Gur bẖetaṯ ha▫o ga▫ī balā▫e. and met the Guru, the demon of pride has departed. ਸਾਸਿ ਸਾਸਿ ਹਰਿ ਗਾਵੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਢਾਕਿ ਲੀਆ ਮੇਰਾ ਪੜਦਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੧੭॥੨੪॥ सासि सासि हरि गावै नानकु सतिगुर ढाकि लीआ मेरापड़दा जीउ ॥४॥१७॥२४॥ Sās sās har gāvai Nānak saṯgur dẖāk lī▫ā merā paṛ▫ḏā jī▫o. ||4||17||24|| With each and every breath, Nanak sings the Lord's Praises. The True Guru has covered my sins. ||4||17||24|| ang 101 Blanketed remarks are being made without any support. In your translation you added the word Naam, but this word does not come in the Gurbani line. Adding the word Naam would strength your argument, but it would be misleading and outright wrong translation. I believe this shabad also must be understood by looking at the whole shabad. ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ गउड़ी महला ५ ॥ Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 5. Gauree, Fifth Mehl: ਮਨ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਈਐ ॥ मन राम नाम गुन गाईऐ ॥ Man rām nām gun gā▫ī▫ai. O my mind, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord's Name. ਨੀਤ ਨੀਤ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਵੀਐ ਸਾਸਿ ਸਾਸਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ नीत नीत हरि सेवीऐ सासि सासि हरि धिआईऐ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Nīṯ nīṯ har sevī▫ai sās sās har ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai. ||1|| rahā▫o. Serve the Lord continually and continuously; with each and every breath, meditate on the Lord. ||1||Pause|| ਸੰਤਸੰਗਿ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ॥ संतसंगि हरि मनि वसै ॥ Saṯsang har man vasai. In the Society of the Saints, the Lord dwells in the mind, ਦੁਖੁ ਦਰਦੁ ਅਨੇਰਾ ਭ੍ਰਮੁ ਨਸੈ ॥੧॥ दुखु दरदु अनेरा भ्रमु नसै ॥१॥ Ḏukẖ ḏaraḏ anerā bẖaram nasai. ||1|| and pain, suffering, darkness and doubt depart. ||1|| ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਪੀਐ ॥ संत प्रसादि हरि जापीऐ ॥ Sanṯ parsāḏ har jāpī▫ai. One who meditates on the Lord, by the Grace of the Saints, ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਦੂਖਿ ਨ ਵਿਆਪੀਐ ॥੨॥ सो जनु दूखि न विआपीऐ ॥२॥ So jan ḏūkẖ na vi▫āpī▫ai. ||2|| that humble being is not afflicted with pain. ||2|| ਜਾ ਕਉ ਗੁਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਦੇ ॥ जा कउ गुरु हरि मंत्रु दे ॥ Jā ka▫o gur har manṯar ḏe. Those unto whom the Guru gives the Mantra of the Lord's Name, ਸੋ ਉਬਰਿਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਅਗਨਿ ਤੇ ॥੩॥ सो उबरिआ माइआ अगनि ते ॥३॥ So ubri▫ā mā▫i▫ā agan ṯe. ||3|| are saved from the fire of Maya. ||3|| ਨਾਨਕ ਕਉ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮਇਆ ਕਰਿ ॥ नानक कउ प्रभ मइआ करि ॥ Nānak ka▫o parabẖ ma▫i▫ā kar. Be kind to Nanak, O God; ਮੇਰੈ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਵਾਸੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਹਰਿ ॥੪॥੭॥੧੪੫॥ मेरै मनि तनि वासै नामु हरि ॥४॥७॥१४५॥ Merai man ṯan vāsai nām har. ||4||7||145|| let the Lord's Name dwell within my mind and body. ||4||7||145|| I insist on people reading and translating Gurbani as a Shabad instead of cutting Gurbani off at tuks or half tuks. Not to sound like a broken record, but many Sants break Gurbani tuks or only say one tuk out of context to support what they want to preach. This is very comman among missionary kathavachaks as well. Sant Parsad does not equal Gurparsad. The third pauri clears this blanketed statement up by tell us the Mantra of Akal Purakh is given by the Guru and takes a person out of maya. The second pauri is saying a Sant can bless a person with repeating Vaheguru or reading Gurbani. This blessing can only come from the Sant because the Guru has given the Sant the ability too after the Sant followed the Gurus path. Sant parsad is nothing close to giving Naam as the shabad clears in the second and third pauri. Gurparsad is only given by the Guru. Im not questioning anything other than your reasoning on calling Bhagat Ravi Das as Guru. Bhagat Prahlad is called Sant Prahlad by Bhagat Kabir ji. Is Bhagat Kabir ji discriminating because they were part of different community? Your reasoning is flawed. Guru Arjun Dev ji called Ravi Das as Bhagat Ravi Das. You are changing what Guru Arjun Dev ji said. .

I would like to suggest one thing. Can we gather up all the missionary preachers and ship them off to this imam house. They are his long lost brothers and this family reunion must take place.

Thank you harsharan for taking the time out to write on this topic. You have brought up some interesting points. I started this thread to get input, and to search this topic deeper. You speak of doing simran of Naam only. What do you mean by simran? This is what I have come across so far in Gurbani: ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ सतिगुरु दाता मिलै मिलाइआ ॥ Saṯgur ḏāṯā milai milā▫i▫ā. The True Guru, the Giver, is met when the Lord leads us to meet Him. ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਮਨਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਸਾਇਆ पूरै भागि मनि सबदु वसाइआ ॥ Pūrai bẖāg man sabaḏ vasā▫i▫ā. Through perfect destiny, the Shabad is enshrined in the mind. ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਹਰਿ ਸਚੇ ਕੇ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਣਿਆ नानक नामु मिलै वडिआई हरि सचे के गुण गावणिआ ॥८॥९॥१०॥ Nānak nām milai vadi▫ā▫ī har sacẖe ke guṇ gāvaṇi▫ā. ||8||9||10|| O Nanak, the greatness of the Naam is obtained by chanting the Glorious Praises of the True Lord. ||8||9||10|| ang 115 Different Shabad on same ang of 115 ਸਬਦੈ ਸਾਦੁ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਤਾ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣਹਿ सबदै सादु जाणहि ता आपु पछाणहि ॥ Sabḏai sāḏ jāṇėh ṯā āp pacẖẖāṇėh. Those who know the essence of the Shabad, understand their own selves. ਨਿਰਮਲ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਬਦਿ ਵਖਾਣਹਿ निरमल बाणी सबदि वखाणहि ॥ Nirmal baṇī sabaḏ vakāṇėh. Immaculate is the speech of those who chant the Word of the Shabad. ਸਚੇ ਸੇਵਿ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਨਿ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਵਣਿਆ सचे सेवि सदा सुखु पाइनि नउ निधि नामु मंनि वसावणिआ ॥५॥ Sacẖe sev saḏā sukẖ pā▫in na▫o niḏẖ nām man vasāvaṇi▫ā. ||5|| Serving the True One, they find a lasting peace; they enshrine the nine treasures of the Naam within their minds. ||5|| So far what is Naam question has not been answered. However Gurbani points to serving Vaheguru and chanting his praises to attain Naam. On a unrelated topics you have one theme in your posts, which is the promotion of finding a Gurmukh to receive Gurparsad. I would disagree with your interpretation because the Gurmukh does not need to be found for a Sikh that is. The Guru (Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji) is there for us to understand. Gurparsad is not for a Gurmukh to give, but only to receive. Only the Guru can provide anyone with Gurparsad. Finding a Gurmukh to learn and find a positive influence is great. It makes a person drive harder for Naam. Gurmukhs put a lost soul in the correct path, but never take the place of the Guru. The Guru is Vaheguru and Vaheguru is the Guru. However the same does not work for a Gurmukh as it does work between Vaheguru and Guru. The Guru is not the production of Vaheguru but himself. A Gurmukh is a production of Vaheguru after following the specific instructions given by Shabad Guru to where Gurparsad was received to become a Gurmukh. The Gurmukh once was caught in maya, but the Guru was and never will be caught in maya. In one post you write Guru Ravi Das ji. The Guru (Shabad Guru) never called Bhagat Ravi Das ji as Guru. Why do you call him as Guru?

It is Vaheguru. The letter Va in punjabi makes no W sound. Not even the slightest W sound is made. It is a hard V sound.

Yes, so Rai in Sri Guru Har Rai Sahib jis name is a last name and so is for Sri Guru Gobind Rai before taking amrit.

ime. Ram Chander married Sita. From this union two sons were born, Lav and Kush. Sitas sons, Lav and Kush, both became kings. Two cities were raised in Punjab, one by Lav, Lahore, and the other by Kush, Kasur. Both became very famous. Kush and lav reigned for a long time. Their sons and grandsons also became rulers. It is mentioned that Kushs descendent, Kalket and Lavs decendent, Kalrai had innumerable sons. Kalket possessed peerless strength, and expelled Kalrai from the city of Lahore. He fled to Sanaudh country (south of Delhi), where he married the kings daughter. The son born in his house of that marriage was named Sodhi Rai. The Sodhi clan began from that time The sons and grandsons, who sprung from Sodhi Rai, were all called Sodhis; the Almighty Lord extended the clan further. They became very distinguished among men and their wealth increased day by day. They exercised independent sway and conquered the kings of many countries. (29). They spread religion every where, caused umbrellas to wave over their heads. Sodi Rai, who had become a king, had two sons, named Jagat Rai and Prithvi Rai. Appointing Prithvi Rai as Raja, Sodhi Rai took his elder son Jagat Rai and made invasion of Lahore. http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/sridasamgranthsahib/bediandsodhidynasties.html They where sodhi but just like any linage there is a rift where sons create there on family linage using different last names. As is the case in Sodhis where one side started using Rai.

Sri Guru Har Rai Sahib ji. Rai is a last name. Sri Guru Gobind Rai Shaheed Jaswant Singh Khalra. Known only by last name of Khalra. Bhagat Dhanna JATT Guru's Bani tells which lineage the Gurus are from. Nothing wrong with knowning last names and keeping them entact. It is the ignorance which needs to be corrected.

It is a complete fabrication and what does telling them have to do with your lie?

The direction was to add singh or kaur to first names. Keeping family names is not wrong act. AActing in ego because of family name or any name is wrong.

Can anyone help with answering this question? What is Naam and how does a Sikh practice it?

This is the craziest thing I have heard. Saying canadain government was bought out. One of the biggest case of terrorism and Canadian government was bought out by one person. His assest would have been taken away anyway because they would be procedes of crime when he would have been convicted of terrorism.