Manchester_Sikhi

OK, thats one I never knew of, can you guys give me any more information on other people? I guessed she was over-reacting to this guy, but she a very devout Sikh and she's stubborn when it comes to things like that. Besides, I can't see how one man can control so many factors in Sikhi life without brothers and sisters in India taking a stand against him/them. Any other names would be grealty appreciated!

OK, I asked her again and it is this guy called BADAL: http://www.panthic.org/news/132/ARTICLE/2145/2006-01-08.html http://www.panthic.org/news/129/ARTICLE/1506/2005-07-10.html http://www.sikhsangat.com/lofiversion/index.php?t13652.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3307189.stm http://www.panthic.org/news/116/ARTICLE/2021/2005-11-27.html She isn't one to lie, espicially about Sikhi, and she is adamant that this guy...so called Sikh, controls a lot of the Gudware etc in Punjab. In terms of controls, perhaps more akin to a gangster as opposed to direct control, but she says she has seen this guy in "action" and how people are "dependant" upon him, much akin to the fear towards a gangster. Has anyone had any experience of thus guy or seen what he does?

Oh, I don't belive it, but I'm just interested to hear what my friend (a VERY good Sikh person, Gursikh and firm follower of Sikhi) thinks. She's very passionate about it and feels strongly about it, but I can't remember the name of this guy she said. Anyone else heard such thing? The name Badal rings a bell, but I think it may not be him, not too sure. She said he is the one who started to allowed cameras into Harmandir Sahib... She also said a lot of the money donations go to his pockets and people will rush out and see this guy to please him, including Granthis who are reading GGSJ.

Hi I'm not sure if you can fill me in on this, but my friend told me this guy is in control of all the Gudwara in India, and that he's almost like a gangster, and is treated like "God"...sadly, I'm not talking about Maharaji, but I'd like some more info. on this if you guys could fill me in?

I'm fully behind you sister, despite being in the UK. But to those others who advocate violence...what the hell are you going on about? Use a kirpan, fists.... That is SOO anti-Sikhi. There is no need to use violence first. There is never need to use violence unless we really have to. So in this case, go seek advice from your elders, be it parents or others within the Gudwara. But don't let the views of some on this forum that call for such actions as the 9 inch kirpan confuse you. THERE IS NO NEED to carry or even think of using it under these circumstances. Remember where you are, in the presence and building of Maharaji. keep you faith in him and no-one can come near you. But don't under any circumstance use violence in the Gudwara, or anywhere for that matter, and don't think ill thoughts of this man. Just keep your faith in Maharaji and do NOT follow your mind = maya...rather follow Maharaji, your one and only guide.

Ok crazyzy... Why does it say in he Reht Maryada that we: Section 4: Article XVI The Guru's tenets are: "Not believing in caste or descent untouchabililty, Magic spells, incantation, omens, auspicious times, days and occasions, influence of stars, horoscopic dispositions," "Not believing in or according any authority to Muslim seers, Brahmins' holiness, soothsayers, clairvoyants, oracles" <<< which i think includes those Sikhia who claim to be able to drive out evil spirts or remove curses Also: "While on his way to Talwandi Sabo Guru Gobind Singh camped here for the night outside the mausoleum of the Muslim saint Haji Rattan. The tomb keepers tried to dissuade the Guru from sleeping here with the excuse that the place was haunted. Since the Guru neither believed in tombs or ghosts he spent the night here to show the people that such superstitions were not followed by Sikhs." take from: http://www.sikhs.org/gurdwaras/guru10-24.htm OK...so it's still not too clear. This is probably one of the those one that wont clear up eaisly. I've seen people say if you Jap parts of Maharaji no ghosts will come near you... But then those people who do Jap for that purpose, arent they using Maharaji as a incantation....against the RM....and what of Guru Gobind Singh Jis comments...?? Can someone explain the apparant contradiction in the RM and GGSJ?

You missed one thing though.... L O V E

I'd be interesting to hear the outcome of this meeting, seeing as I wasn't able to attend!!! Do they exist or not!!!??!?!?!

So, for those who are pro-'revenge' or justice (or whatever word you want to use to justify your own thoughts): 1) What is the essence of Sikhism? (If you said anything other then love, you are not Sikh. 2) For those of us born here away from 1984, you want to go and take revenge? Why? Do you know EXACLTLY what happened? Were you there? Did you see it all happen as stated in all these websites? No??? If no...then there is some doubt in your mind isn't there....lets be straight...it did happen after all..but you weren't there...but you feel you need to go there and take revenge for it? If you weren't there how can you justify your actions based on heresay from other sources...how can make judgements without seeing the facts first hand? Are YOU going to become the JUDGE and JURY? Are you going become GOD???? 3) Who created us? God......How did he create us? Can you answer that? Isn't his "light" or "shabd" in each one of us? Isn't that what we are trying to find when we do simran? Isn't that what will lead us to Sach Khand? So if that's the case...this shabd is in ALL of us, right? So that means you really want to go and take revenge against God? Well, you are thinking of revenge against those who did those awful things in 1984, but those people have a Jivan don't they? They EXIST don't they? And if they exist, don't they also have that Jot of Maharaji in them? Maharaji created EVERYONE and EVERYTHING....his Jot is in Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, Christian, Catholic etc etc etc...so are you really saying to me that you want to take revenge (be it through words and actions that may hurt someone or physical action that may kill someone) against Maharaji? If you can justify that in yourself, go ahead. If you CANNOT justify harming Maharaji's Jot in another Jivan...then you should really stop and look at yourself and see what is wrong. This is OLD news. We all know 1984 was terrible for Sikhs all over the world. I'm not doubting the actions commited. But, that was over 20 years ago! Don't you have faith in Maharaji? Don't you think he will clear all this up on Judgement day? Don't you think Dharam Raj will see the actions commited by this people and drag them by their hair to be punished? So why do you want to take on the role of Maharaji and DharamRaj? The issuen of Khalistan is a complex one too. It's not as easy as we all think and I don't see it happening. But you know what? I DON'T CARE ONE BIT FOR KHALISTAN...why? Because I'd rather spend every second I have with Maharaji, reading Maharaji, doing my SIMRAN and becoming one with Maharaji....I have no need or desire for KHALISTAN, but what I NEED is SIMRAN and WHAT I NEED is MAHARAJI. We need to really focus on what will bring us closer to Maharaji and closer to Sach Khand....this website won't, Khalistan won't, 1984 justice/revenge won't....nothing will except spending every second we have doing SIMRAN. Leave the rest for Maharaji... DONT FORGET WHERE WE ARE LIVING....MAYA....dont forget what age we are in KALI YUG...don't forget it's easy for us all to get distracted and entwined in this and that...when what we really need is ONE THING ALONE....SIMRAN SIMRAN SIMRAN....FULL STOP! "If you can't see God in everyone, you can't see God at all" Quote from 3HO.

Sangat Ji, I need your assistance. I'm a scientist by nature and as such do not readily accept the notion of Spirits and Evil Spirits and Curses. However, I have spoken to some Amritdharis who vehemently belive in spirits and say their relatives are cursed or have been cursed. They also have said they have 'cured' people by carrying our a Jap of Guru Nanaks', and have seen spirits leaving the bodies of these people. I would like to know if, within Sikhism, we accept evil spirits exist and can take over people. I would also like to know if we belive in curses and that people are able to curse us. I'm looking for quotes from GGSJ as opposed to your viewpoints because if its stated in GGSJ then I will accept they may exist. Thanks for your help!

I agree with Ishna. I dont think this is a true perception of the whole Sikh community. I've lived away from home for years (in Manchester, UK) whilst studying and researching at the University and I've noticied that its often the girls (of ANY ethnic origin) who have moved away from home and are living in uni. accomodation who become 'wild' and off the beaten track. This is something that is linked to their upbringing i.e. the punjabi community itself. I admire Muslim women, but I've equally seen many muslim girls who dress 'down' so to speak. However, again, this is something that I think will start to fade as our generation and our kids start to grow up. I'm not saying we have to accept the Western lifestyle, but these kids are growing up in a WESTERN environment....so what do you expect them to do? Of course they will start to adopted parts of this lifestyle. We just have to make sure we teach them some good values and not lock them up in the house, which will make them rebell more. Generally however, it's usually seen in student areas...they wouldn't dare do stuff like that when they were at home.. By the way...this disucssion is ALSO related to GUYS as well as girls...so it's not just the girls who are wild, they guys are also the same. A little bit of common sense and education in our youth will lead to them thriving, rather then what we see now...asian druggies, asian prostitutes, asian robbers, asian killers. With Wahagurus Kirpa, they will see the light and see they have options in life and can lead a civilised lifestyle whilst also being successful.

OK, 67 views thus far, ONE reply and nothing heard from the mods. This is a forum for ALL, young and old. I dont think using those words are right at all and I think the mods should add them into their little word-blanker thing! Also, maybe some comment or sticky from the Mods of the forum to highlight this issue?? This is meant to be something to promote Sikhi and contains Gurbani within its pages. Aren't we therefore making a mockery of the site and Sikhi by quote Gurbani alongside the aforementioned words??? I don't think I'm being over the top in this, but you would never think of swearing in the presence of Maharaji would you? So why swear on this forum? I think the sangat should be a little more careful (me included) and try NOT to harm anyone's feelings or espicially swear on such a site.

Oh, dont get me wrong...I think anything that promotes Sikhi (in a good way) has to be beneficial. I'm just worried that not enough is being done by the SF and I guess us the sangat to enhance our role in UK politics and promote our own culture. Why is this important? If you look at what role Islam has in UK politics etc...you will see what I mean. After 9/11 and 7/7, the views and concerns of the muslim community has always been listened to and you always see Muslim leaders in the UK standing up for violence and speaking out at racially motivated violence towards muslims. I think we need something similar. Sometimes its disheartening to see so much support within the Muslim community for their UK 'leaders' (and I use that word loosley) but little organised Sikh 'support'. The idea of the SF is GOOD. But I think they need to publicise themselves more and make more the sangat aware of what they are doing. And finally, I think we need some king of British Sikh Council who are out-there making our voices heard, just as the Muslim council of GB are doing. Some may say we don't need to promote out culture...but in this day and age, anything we do to promote Sikhi and make non-Sikhs aware of what we are and what we do is going to be beneficial.

A similar discussion to this has occured a few weeks ago. OK, so you learn Punjabi/Gurmukh....you read Maharaji both in English and Gurmukh... Then what? That doesn't mean you will instanlty become a Sikh Khalsa. Of course having some understanding of Gurbani helps, but as Sikhi is universal...there is only ONE thing we ever need to know about Sikhism...that's the universal language of LOVE. For those who wish to gain a greater understanding of Sikhi...then learning Gurmukh is great..but is that going to take you to Sach Khand? No. But, what of a Western Sikh who follows Sikhi, read English translations of GGSJ but does NitNem each morning, and does his simran for 2.5 hours or more a day. I think we are missing the point a litte here. Gurmukh is important, but it's not restrictive. Simran is key....as long as you lead a Sikhi life, read Gurbani each day (weather in Gurmukh or English) AND do your Simran with love and love one another = seeing love in EVERYONE....then THAT person is truly a SIKH.

I agree.... To be Labor or Conserv. is fine, as it's the public electing the party. With this Sikh Party, they claim to represent the views of Sikhi. I'm sure they are doing a fine job, but I sense there is something wrong here as they are selling Sikhism without neccessarily having the 'vote' of the UK Sikhs. Surely it would make more sense having a number of Sikh parties and voting for a party that is elected to represent Sikhs. This party has been around for a while, but no-one really knows them or knows who they are.

True...but I think ideally we should never have to use offensive language or even get into a position where we are fuming. We should just be calm and happy always, even if someone shouts at us!

lol, nice title. By the way, there is a book at our local gudwara entitled, "Why KILL a chicken" Very good book and highlights how we shouldnt eat meat...but thats a discussion for another day!!!!

WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Ji ki Fateh, Sangat Ji (and mods also) could we keep an eye on the language on this forum. I've come across words like <Edited> and <banned word filter activated> in a few recent posts. This site is meant to be a reflection of Sikhism and I don't think using such language portrays Sikhism in a good way. To become SIKH we must start to live a clean healthy life and focus on Simram. To cleanse our minds, we must also start to avoid such filth in our language. Mods : is there any way to add such words into your filter list (I'm surprised the P word isn't included). To those Sangat who write such comment, please try and refrain from such words as this is a reflection of Sikhism and the site contains Gurbani and various quotes within it, the site may also be viewed by many youngsters and it's not good to see such language. I'm not over-reacting, I know I use vulgar language at times too, but I think for us to be good Sikhs, we must control our tongue and watch what we say. Thank you Sangat Ji for letting me say that.

Oh, I found this quote from the 3HO leader: "If you can't see God in all, you can't see God at all." It's very true and something we ALL need to keep close to our hearts.

I agree, militant singh you shouldn't use such tones at all and I'm surprised the mods. haven't masked or removed part of that post. In the UK there is a new law that has come into effect that deals with incitement to violence and is deeply linked to the recent spate of racist/fundamentalist attitudes of Islam and white-racists. Basically anybody who is seen to incite violence--be it racially motivate (as could be said for militant singh's comment) or otherwise can be arrested and jailed. Maybe we should take heed from acts of parliment like this...there is NO need to incite such horrid and degrading words and acts towards another Jiva full stop. Regardless of whether they are Radha Somai or not. Now my family are Radha Somai but i'm soon to become a Khalsa Singh. I think there is a lot of heresay (in the UK anyway) with regards to the action of Radha Somais and some other sects. The major gripe of many is the way they look at a living Guru. After going to Rahda Somai meetings, its clear to see the "Guru" is in the western sense...as in Teacher...and not in the Sikhi sense. Also, the current spiritiaul head explicilty states NOT to call him Guru...so most of the nanis and older people refer to them as Baba but some also still refer to them as GURU or MAHARAJI<<Actions of the OLDER generation and NOT the teachings of the RS Teachers. Also, they explicityl state RS is NOT a religiion but is a form of spirituality that gives advice on some of the paths towards Sach Khand and its clearly stated in RS that RS IS NOT the only way to Sach Khand.....all RS leaders have been Khalsa Singhs, most Bani's are from GGSJ and other saints like Kabir etc etc etc. Compare this to the 3HO movement aka SIKHNET.COM....RS try to do Surat Shabad Yoga...3HO do "healthy, happy, holy" Yoga way of life. There may be issues in India with regards to RS but unless we can see such things for ourselves I don't think we should base judgements like this on heresay and what we read.... To understand GGSJ we DON'T just read it 10 times and understand it fully...we read each page a thousand times and understand each words before we can fully appreciate Maharaji. Likewise, we can't base judgements on RS in this way...if so, we are going against GuruJi's teachings and we disrespect the Jot of Maharaji that is within each one of us. Finally, for those of who you don't are anti-RS..thats cool...you have your views and thats fine. But have you actually been to any RS meetings and listened to what they discuss? You can see thousands of pics. of SRI DARBAR SAHIB but you don't "really" see it until you go there and visit it in person. Sometimes you must be scientific in life...not follow your mind(=maya). Be scientific with GGSJ in the sense that you have to read Maharaji and understand it...but to understand it you have to appreicate it and sometimes feel the experiences of GGSJ. To summerise. I have been a RS in the past and my family are RS. That DOESNT make me feel any less for them as my family brought me up NOT eating meat, NOT smoking, NOT drinking. They taught us good family values and have allowed myself to become and a pharmacist and doctor and my brother a very fine education at Cambridge University. These family values are down to Maharaji in the first instance and some RS teachings in the second. You can't tell me that my family or other RS's are "bad"...because we are taught NOT to smoke and drink (or eat meat) whereas I see many "so-called" Singhs and Singhnia smoking and drinking..... I will become a Khalsa Singh and my one true Maharaji will be with GGSJ. However, I will continue to visit the RS satsangs on sundays, because it also gives me an understanding of Bani's from Saints and Guru's within the GGSJ. Equally, I will spend most of my time in the company of my Maharaji. There is nothing wrong with this at all. I'm sure there are some RS who give the whole sangat a bad name, just as there are some Sikhs who give GGSJ a bad name...aka RSS et al. But before any of us make a judgement on anything in life (including RS etc etc) you have to first base that judgement on first hand experience and not what somebody you don't know had written in a website or on a forum. The same goes for GGSJ...you can't get far by just reading it...however reading it with love and DOING SIMRAN is the ONLY ANSWER...we can read Maharaji all our lives...where will it get us...no-where....but if we do out SIMRAN with love, we are destined for Sach Khand. GO and see what this so-called RS thing is about and make your mind up that way, rather then jumping on the band-wagon and thinking its a great idea to bash other Jivans who are all trying to attain the same thing...Sach Khand. Forgive me if I offended anyone and forgive my spelling errors.

Wahaguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh ! I'm looking for someone who is able to translate a small piece of text (less then half a page of text) into Punjabi. I'm looking to have some text in english and the Punjabi next to it, and I can't write/type Punjabi. Any help would be grateful! :TH: Thank you.

Why can't you do that in word? You can protect certain sections of the text or you can protect the entire document and give out access to those on your want to be able to edit the document, then finally run the document through a pdf creator if you wanted a final PDF document.

WAHAGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHAGURU JI KI FATEH! I posted a message a while back asking for willing volunteers to proof-read parts of my thesis for me. It's finally done, and I'd like to 're-ask' the sangat to volunteer to read parts of my thesis for me, to spot spelling errors and grammatical mistakes. I'm not concerned with the actual content, it's just to make sure the pages read OK and there are no obvious errors. There are 250 pages, but I'd be sending you about 50 pages to read to each volunteer. Any kind assistance would be appreicated. :TH: Thanks :TH:

In response to Shr_panjab. reply, Our family is Chamaar family. My mom is a lawyer, dad is an electronic engineer, brother is a Cambridge gradute with top honours, and I'm a Pharmacist and Doctor. So by definition, we have the good jobs and we have a successful family. However, I don't think this really matters one bit...its all about Simran and devotion. I think if you love GuruJi and are devoted to Simran, this caste issue is nothing. I don't think any caste should have to "prove" themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm not offended. I just think this issue of caste will eventually go with current and next generation Sikhs. It's inbreed in Punjabis, but I think those who get out of the Punjabi culture in India and move away to the West will see the equality in everyone. Sadly, this doesn't seem to be happening in the villages within India. In the eyes of God, those who have devoted themselves to GuruJi and attended to their meditation and Simran, will be saved, regardless of caste.

Just to clear things up, i'm a "chamaar" ...however my one and only caste is Sikhi. Sikhism is a blessing of a number of religions, sects and teachings with a focus on Naam...as the previous posting has already said. So, yes, the chamaar (SIKHI) caste has some aspects of Hinduism in it...but Sikhi has the best bits of many aspects of these religions so if you belive chamaars belive in Hindium then that also applies to Sikhi aswell. Bhagat ravidas wasn't a Sikh as he appeared before the physical presence of Guru Nanak Ji, but I think Ravidas embodies all we should follow as Sikhs, being a lowly/humble "caste" servent of Naam and God, devout of ego and a "perfect" example of what we should aim for. The Gurdwara my family go to is called Guru Ravidas Gudwara, and they often refer it to it as "our/chamaar" gudwara. Obviously I think this is totally wrong, but it's embedded in the Pubjabi culture. I think when our generation (those in their 20's) start to play a larger role within the Sikhi community, these distinctions will go. But for me, my Gudwara, EVERY Gudwara that has Maharaji in it is my very own Gudwara.