MisterrSingh

Stockholm Syndrome. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." Etc.

It's impossible engaging with people who possess his type of mentality. You're more likely to get something out of an exchange with a brick wall. There is no chance of any form of contemplation on their part that they MAY perhaps need to reassess the beliefs and opinions they hold so dear. To consider such a thought is tantamount to succumbing to devilry, lol. I wouldn't give a 5hit normally, but he's considered to be somewhat emblematic of western Sikhs and our beliefs, but he doesn't speak for me and he never will.

There was a significant period of emigration from the Austrian Sikh community to the UK from approx 2001. Most are now well settled and have assumed British citizenship. There's still a sizeable Sikh community in the country, though.

You have a point. The Langar system should remain as it is, open to all regardless of race, gender, etc., BUT there needs to be perhaps the presence of "security" / enforcers to remind some of these elements who do consider Langar to be nothing but a soup kitchen that IF they step out of line, they will be ejected. You can see it in the eyes of SOME of these individuals; they're taking the pi55 and eating the food, and they know that very rarely anyone is going to step up and sort them out IF they take liberties. Not all of them but a few. The old uncles and babeh can't do a thing if they needed to sort someone out; the bibyah would be less than useless. Unfortunately, all younger guys are at work during the week, so I don't see from where that presence will arrive. But, yes, this issue needs to be discussed among whichever official Gurdwara group / council we have in the UK, and then advice should be disseminated to all Gurdwaras in the country. It's something that has the potential to escalate if not tackled now. Of course, we must deal with this potential problem in a way that reflects favourably on us as a faith and a community. Behaving as if these homeless guys and drug addicts (let's be honest, most are addicts) are a nuisance or a threat that need to be corralled like unruly beasts is not the way to deal with it. It kind of defeats the purpose of langar.

Logic would dictate two outcomes: based on my own personal experiences I am either suffering from a mental illness of some sort, or there is "something" of the unseen out there, and despite what the world and its people would tell you, there's more to existence than what we've been lead to believe. I'll let you decide which of the two choices is the truth, lol. As for the mechanics and the "logic" behind it all, I wouldn't pretend to know how any of it works. It's a mystery to me. I have my theories but they're nothing more. Some of it tallies with what others have noted, whereas some of it differs wildly from traditional thought even in esoteric circles. I wouldn't give this subject too much thought. As much as it's an exciting or interesting topic, there's very little we can do in a practical way that can affect much of what happens. Believe in the Creator, abide by His rules, and get on with your life. I'm honestly tired of even contemplating this aspect of existence. Let's just say the game is unfairly stacked against the players who have no intentions of playing dirty. For those who have no conscience on the other hand... Don't make me expand on the above. I have no wish to discuss this issue any further.

Was abortion as we know it today (exterminating life in the womb) possible back in the day, or did they use to wait until the kid was born to get rid of it?

Makes me wonder where things went wrong when all of the above brilliant points need to be reiterated at all. What ARE they teaching in these sects? Rhetorical question. I know what they're doing, and it's messed up.

It is my responsibility, I agree, and it's something I've understood and undertaken from a young age with diligence. It is a battle each and every day, yet because I have a natural affinity for Sikh teachings; am curious, stubborn, and dedicated, so I persevere. Same can't be said for 95% of the people in our quom who, through no fault of their own in most cases, want someone to do it for them. So, do we write them off because they'll never achieve? Lost causes unable to unearth the inner Godhead because their mindset is diametrically opposite to what it should be, which is exacerbated by a Gurdwara and parchaar system that is arguably the most un-spiritual system one could hope for, which runs along the lines of a production line that aims to cultivate unquestioning sheep? Imagine if the Sikhi of our Gurus had started out in a manner that resembled the Sikhi apparatus of today! What a terrifying thought. The problem is our people crave to be led; to be told what to believe and what to think. That doesn't sound like an attitude that's conducive to salvation, that is unless we've been mislead, and salvation isn't as difficult and rare as we've lead to believe?

Have you stepped inside a Gurughar in the past 400 years, lol? Maybe I'm frequenting the wrong type of Gurdwaras, but when did you ever feel any of the clowns desperate to part us from our pound coins were striving to create a realisation of the true Godhead in each and every person? The subtext has always been one of binary choices. Incredibly conditional. I'm not having a go at you personally -- and I'm not defending Christianity in a roundabout way before someone gets the wrong end of the stick -- but the theory is so very far removed from the practice. Modern parchaar is, beneath the surface, not too different from missionary (i.e. in the classic sense of the word; not what it's become to be known in Punjabi circles) methodology. A dreamy, mellow method of delivery should not be mistaken for the actual message beneath the surface that's being espoused, which is, "Follow or be condemned to hell." Hell: technically, we're told there's no such place according to Sikh beliefs, but apparently it's somewhere that exists when it needs to keep the lowly rabble in line, lol.

The problem is that now his elevated media profile and his status have convinced him -- and others -- that they're doing the right thing, and that those people who are extending words of caution (or stronger, in some cases) are the un-Sikh villains of the piece. Nobody from the people he surrounds himself with is ever going to advise him to tone it down and look closer to home, so in effect he's trapped himself in an echo chamber where he will never consider any constructive criticism or advice that runs contrary to his personal ideology. That's an incredibly precarious and unhealthy way for someone to exist, even moreso for someone of his position. He seems drunk on a stubborn sense of self-righteousness. This is what happens when you impose particular Western moral ideologies on a completely misunderstood Eastern spiritual doctrine. One side will always be diminished and come off worse for wear, and it's no surprise the aspect that suffers the most is the one that's least understood, or at least understood in the most basic and superficial way.

So many unanswered questions.

Neither approach is incorrect. Balance must be achieved based on context and circumstances. Sometimes it is necessary to help the non-Sikh over the Sikh; at other times one must prioritise the Sikh's needs. Clinging to extremes and absolutes ("I will only ever recognise the plight of the Other because -- through a misguided interpretation of Sikh self-sacrifice that's actually rooted in fear and ego -- the Other can never be wrong" or "All non-Sikh issues are irrelevant to me") is not the way to act in the true spirit of our faith. Remember, "Without Fear or Favour" - "Nirbhau Nirvair." It's all there at the very beginning.

Too many wannabe Bhai Khaniyeh in the quam, and not enough Baba Banda Singh Bahadhurs, although, ironically, the Bhai Khaniyeh wannabes act not out of a deep seated conviction that their acts are rooted in Truth, but because they don't have the heart and the courage to take the difficult and unpopular decisions, which is, funnily enough, the exact opposite of what the actual blessed Bhai Khaniyah and Baba Banda Singh managed to achieve. Arguably two polar opposing philosophies according to contemporary ethical and moral thought, but viewed through the prism of Gurmat there is NO contradiction between the two approaches.

It is a valid point, though. Why do they all have that small-framed, unthreatening, bespectacled, beta male quality? Other men inwardly chuckle to themselves when we encounter guys who look like that. They visibly feel threatened and shrink away even if you're just walking past them innocuously. I can't imagine what their women must feel when she sees her man so clearly intimidated by virtue of someone merely existing. Probably internally curses her parents or her vicholla for finding her someone so ineffectual, lol. A PhD ain't gonna keep her safe and protected, lmao, although it will admittedly pay the bills of their spacious and luxurious home, and have enough over for a couple of holidays every 6 months or so, which, let's be honest, is all that truly matters to the modern Sikh female. It's probably low testosterone levels on the part of the guy.

Yes, correct. Cameron sort-of commiserated with Sikhs, and admitted what happened was shameful, but stopped short of an apology. I think they call it "lawyer speak" where instead of outright stating, "I'm sorry for what we did" they phrase it as, "I'm sorry you feel such pain" thereby the onus is thrown onto the aggrieved party, lol. It's very devious but it's done to avoid any unnecessary legal entanglements.

In that particular exchange, whites have placed themselves in a disadvantageous situation -- on the backfoot I guess -- owing to certain factions within their own society who possess a suicidal altruism that refuses to acknowledge the Other could possibly ever have less than honest intentions. Couple that with a fatal desire to live up to the white saviour complex, they're staring down the barrel of a rather dark future for themselves, and still they refuse to acknowledge that they might be seriously mistaken this time around. Muslims (in terms of their populations that reside in foreign countries), by and large, know when to close ranks for a common cause. Even the lapsed and non-believers possess a vague sense of loyalty and belonging to Islam, even for appearance's sake in the most superficial or cultural sense, for the sake of the collective, whereas whites are all too eager to express their individuality and impartiality even at the expense of their own people and prospects. The moral and intellectual vanity of the "educated" white will prove to be its undoing. They have been brainwashed into working against their own interests. It's fascinating how it's been done over such a relatively short period of time. Objectively, for us brownies in the West, the coming decades will prove to be some of the most fruitful if the right opportunities are taken. Everything is literally up for grabs.

It's quite amusing when you consider that the most brusque and least intelligent member of a low trust society (such as Punjab) would still consider him or herself to be more... capable (?) and more of a rounded individual than the most intelligent and thoughtful member of a high trust society. Bravado and street smarts can take a person quite far in a sense.

Occasionally I get the sense the western media seems reluctant to rub Muslim noses into their various hypocrisies, almost like they're protecting a potential persecuted minority (yeah right) in that typically egotistical, white liberal way, or they're just plain scared of being Charlie Hebdo'd.

Regardless of opinions on Islam, her family must be distraught and so utterly embarrassed. It's behsti, but not in an honour-killing sense, but more along the lines of their daughter becoming this huge sideshow in the West on account of fleeing the country and her faith. I'd assumed the Western media would play it down in order not to incite and upset the growing Muslim population, but they really seem to be hammering this story, lol. Surprising.

Less Bane, more Batman? ?

Unrealistic to expect any human to adhere to that level of consistency in belief and practice so that one may actually fulfill the conditions of what makes a "true" Sikh? Or is the true reward found in the journey, and not so much the destination? Anyone who claims -- or even inwardly prides themselves -- to be a "true Sikh" most likely isn't.

I can't say I'm surprised. Disappointed, perhaps. It is true that being a Sikh is like traversing the edge of the finest blade.

I understand and agree with self preservation; not blinking first, etc. It may seem inconsequential and petty, but some of these sickos derive cheap thrills from some of the most worthless and smallest occurrences, and sometimes it's fun to deny them the satisfaction of those victories. BUT I don't agree with a blanket application of these methods. There's no discernment on our part of who deserves it and who should be spared. We struggle to adapt and roll with the punches.

I'm not suggesting it was a past life chum. But, you're right, it was simultaneously unsettling but strangely comforting; that I'd "finally" been reunited with this particular person even though I'd never met them previously. We were finishing each other's sentences, and there was a weird sense of trying to bring each other up to speed on our respective life events leading up to meeting. Lol, it's not as dodgy as it sounds.

There was someone. I only knew that person for 3 months, but as soon as I met them I was struck by how familiar everything was between us. There was a strange shorthand between us that came almost within moments of meeting. It was like being reunited with a very old friend and picking up from where we'd left off.