dallysingh101

'Transaction' implies a reciprocal exchange. I don't think this happened. I think these works were more about whites framing Sikh dharam into the narrow conceptualisations of the their times. This comes to mind:

Years ago, I translated a bit of Prof. Sahib Singh's preface of his Jaap Sahib steek. He talks alot about language and what he believes to be it's relationship with Sikhi. Have a read of this and let us know what you think about it in relation to your above post please.

Yeah years ago. It was very insulting. Also, to placate Sikhs and bring them along into the brit army too.......

Thankfully ain't heard it in a long while (decades), apart from the mouth of a drunk doaban twat who moved a few houses away when he was drinking with his buddy in a car outside. But yeah, back in the day, lots of olders (not in my fam though) would get like that after a couple of pegs. It's very normal with pendus, they just normally do it when there are just blokes and booze about. So that's why it's probably a surprise for you?

We know this. Why keep exposing yourself to their poison?

Universities?

Go by where you take amrit?

The way I see it. I (we?) literally can do f**k all about back home right now. Sadly. So it makes logical sense to focus on your locality, and help build strong satellite Sikh communities there. What little interaction I've had with desi pendus from back home here in the last decade or so doesn't make me hold these guys in high regard. That's not saying I haven't had great experiences with individuals when I was younger. To be honest, as someone from my generation, I can't recognise these Panjabis today and they are absolutely nothing like the first generation of Panjabis before me in any shape or form - down to attitudes and how they even look. Don't get depressed about things you can't control, focus on your immediate manor and what can be done there. And even if you can't do anything, just not adding to the fudhooness is something.

I hear that. I think this thing has to slowly change ground level up. Maybe it's already started?

Look most of our people are rural and barely educated. I don't think many understand the significance of these things? Or they have so many of their own personal problems with regard to day to day surviving that they are overwhelmed with that? That being said, we have preserved quite a bit - not that it excuses the above.

To me, it goes back to apnay having a primary identity that isn't Sikh (usually a caste one), my guess is a lot of such people, deep in their hearts don't really care. Plus if we have rampant sociopathy going on, they wouldn't care about anything other than their own wants/needs. If the allegations are true, someone put PP up to this? Who was it, and why?

What background are the majority of PP?

I would think online forums would be a better bet, and reach a wider audience myself? Or pay Sidhu Moosewala to sing it (for maximum exposure in the panth).

Bobby's had a drink I reckon. Lol This is how pendus talk when they've had a few.

I looked it up. I remember there was some comedy(?) program about an IT department in a school (I think). I think he was playing a nerd in that. I never ever watched it though, too white for me.

I think there was a basic like you outline. Then different movements added more banis to their samparadayas rahits? The movement was towards doing more, understandably?

Kashi House????

Didn't know actor Naveen Chowdhry was his first cousin. Don't recall any film he's in?

Yeah but Malwa folk do seem to 'soften' a lot of phonemes. That's why other dialects seem so crude to us maybe?

He does say this: "yes I agree with you. Many things they do in their community despite our union of language are alien to my sikh upbringing...including marrying relatives or girls half your age etc...language can unite us and create a discourse...but all the rest of these things are so different...I think the worst I have heard ours do is Honour Killings, though allegedly there was a Sikh member of a northern muslin grooming gang in the news some years ago...anyhow my views on this are on display in my story Gunda, which may offend some muslims, but grooming gangs are a fact"

Nah, this brothers probably got a good heart and has books to sell. He's already made it in the system as an accountant. He writes in Panjabi from some intrinsic drive. He knows he won't make any money from it.

Yeah, but his guard ain't up.

They guy I know who has most contact and interactions with these so-called sufi types is author Roop Dhillon. This is what he had to say about them (FTR I don't agree with a lot of what he says - highlights are mine): "This may explain it. The guys I know are more Sufi orientated which means they are of the same ilk as Santan Hindus and thus more in sync with Baba Nanak's Sikhi but not I guess the Khalsa. So then all I can say is the pro punjabi guys seem to be different. It is an interesting point for me that the pro punjabi ones are mainly hailing from within Pakistan and are also targeted as Indian spies or traitors by those that put Islam before national pride. Also that the ones we are talking about may specifically include those in the west who like Sikhs in the west bought the wounds of 47 with them and lets face it are the guys my generation fought in the clubs and pubs in the 80s and 90s because of the hate between our communities at the time. I think many of them further alienated themselves from Pakistan after 9/11 and its consequences and lacking any linguistic connection with the Punjab joined the international Islamic brotherhood in reaction to George Bush etc and now are more like the Arabs you describe. As I said take them individually.. anyhow one thing I am in agreement with you all...whenever I ask them about why they don't critize terrorism or all this grooming, there is no response, yet they are vocal about west picking on them. I have noted the ones I know in Pakistan disassociate themselves with these British products."

@shastarSingh If this manuscript is complete, we might have a full text. The question is whether this is translation of Lakkahn Rai's version or Tansukh Lahauri's - or another recension altogether?

I think many british raised apnay REALLY struggle to pronounce ਭ and turn it into a ਪ. I definitely do. Or is it a Malwai thing? I noticed as well (growing up) the norm was to use the sound (phoneme) associated with ਫ਼ instead of properly pronouncing the aspirated ਫ.