Mat Pulo Rai

_Human_ you have every reason to ask if there is a God, i disagree with 99% of the people in here, im perhaps not making many friends, it’s just for me your either right or your wrong, when it comes to Sikhism. The virus within our Minds and our Sikhs is of interpretation, most will not agree as they have grown up with this mental reasoning, those who do know that when it comes to the cracks of it, our personal feelings dont mean squat when it comes to truth, “The universe doesn't owe us condolence or consolation; it doesn't owe us a nice warm feeling inside” -Richard Dawkins, many people believe in the notion of God because it gives them comfort and peace(this is not wrong if you come to this conclusion through reasoning, and not pure assertion) “The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.” -Christopher Hitchens, To those who assert that there is a God full stop, with no explanation, I say have never really cared enough to study Sikhism for hours or days for an answer or carefully taken in written or Audios of Gurmukhs. Asserting there is a Fire Monster, one cannot prove there isn’t one, so by your logic there must be one, how foolish does this sound, insert any other old Greek god Myth, Zeus exists you can’t prove he doesn’t so he must. “When considering the truth of a proposition,one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one isn't. Religion is one area of our lives wherepeople imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.”- Sam Harris, author and Neurologist “People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next.” -Sam Harris, Knowing something with one’s heart should not be a way of reasoning; one should look at all the information, evidence, facts or theory in front of us, and do our best to decipher it, through our own mental capacity and peer discussion, all Im asking is people to spend 20 mins of their life a day, and think about the things they believe and why, and come to a rational conclusion. For the question if there is a 1 creator, I say it with great awe and bewilderment that the answer is Yes

Thanks for sharing

Fail typo haha, though i wouldn't mind a back rub :biggrin2:

Baji if your serious about this, give me a message, ill tell you how i controlled it and Guru kirpa have been free of this for 3 years Also lol Kaljugi living up to his name, making Mischief :laugh2:

Its a shame, that on a forum for Sikhs no ones asked how to meet God, just questions on how to expand there knowledge.

Yes

Haha only them 1980's Kids will get this :biggrin2:

5 singhs to bring maharaj to your Home after that if your going to do a akand path then there should be 1 person always within the room listening to the bani, your whole family should be spending 3-4 hours a day minimum listening, as only by listen can you get full blessing of Sat Guru, the other thing is to make a rota for the evening, who will take the 12am-3am shift then 3am to 6am, hopefully after this time your family will have gotten up, which will give you time to rest for a couple of hours, and then go back to listening to Gur Bani. Just recently i was blessed to attend to a akand path at a friends house, and spending those 3 days with Guru MahaRaj was extremely beneficial to my Jevan, so try to get 6-8 hours of sitting and listening to Guru jees Bani, may be hard, but remember its only for 3 days so get as much Laha as you can.

Nice story Baji, but that Kid kicking that Girl for No reason just made me LoL. like aww what did she do to take a kick to the chest Ha. Sry if it looks like im derailing your Topic, but some might be swayed with stories like this, im not one for stories being the bases of why you should believe, it may seem innocent, but stories are the ways that So called Sikh giaanis and parcharacs use to portray there message, which ive come across as not being true to the belief of Sikhi, the story of Baba Deep Singh is one, where people have said that there head wasn’t severed, Tbh it doesn’t matter (though it did) in the context of Gurbani, as it states one can move without hands/feet look without eyes. Shalok, Second Mehl: 2 . akhee baajhahu vaekhanaa vin kannaa sunanaa | To see without eyes; to hear without ears; . pairaa baajhahu chalanaa vin hathaa karanaa | to walk without feet; to work without hands; . jeebhai baajhahu bolanaa eio jeevath maranaa | to speak without a tongue-like this, one remains dead while yet alive. . naanak hukam pashaan kai tho khasamai milanaa |1| O Nanak, recognize the Hukam of the Lord's Command, and merge with your Lord and Master. ||1|| This is the avasta where you do things with your Shukam shareer (spritual form) this is how Baba Deep Singh Jee carried his head without it being attached to his body, amazing right. The message im trying to portray is that Sakhia arnt bad per say, only ones which are within Gurbani, Dasam Granth, Bhai Gurdaas Jee varas should be spread, as you know they haven’t been tampered or molded to meet an agenda. I personally like the one of where Bhagat Naam Dev Jee is left to be killed by a drunken elephant and God intervenes, the Shabad is beautiful.

Someone translate

Ive got in tape form =/ i havent got the right system in my room to record the audio of the tape... Is amazing though tell the sangat put your thiaan here and you will get Parkaash of equivalent to thosands of suns, put it here and your Roum Roum will start put it here and you will start to hear Shabads, but he laughs and says you lot wont get this, only those that put the time in to doing simran and bring there mind to a single point with no thoughts can achieve this.

@KalJug Totally agree with your analyses, from a sikh point view what western press, media, Mags, are showing is a beauty driven society, and is a marketing tool in which large companies pump hundreds of millions of pounds a year on trying to sell their products, from skin care, to cloths to cosmetic surgery, this is partly because it’s a part of our mind frame, all that has happened is over the centuries its become more capitalized and now a multibillion dollar industry, it’s not that the media has brought this way of thinking to society it’s that they have seen the trend and created products to tailor peoples wants, which intern women with their size 0 figures are shown on Tv, and give people there refrence of what is culturally expectable, It’s not only western cultures which have shown this favoritism to beauty its has been seen in our indian culture for 100's of years with light skin being preferred over dark skin, a slim figure over being overweight, or what is deemed as beautiful on their wedding day. More so physical beauty and how to please men stereotype have been within all societies over the world, (not just a western phenomenon) whether it’s been the Indians with their books on how to please men in bed, or african women elongating there necks as it was a sign of beauty, or the Belly dancer stereotype in the Arab world.. it all comes down to men wanting to look attractive to women and women to men, so they go to extreme extents to conform with the norm at that time, it’s just we have the size 0 now, 70 years ago it was super mum with thin waste wide hips and a smile It was only after the Feminist movement in 1960s that got people wanting to branch out and find their own way to look, and in Africa having a long neck was a sign of beauty and a way to attract boys “Small girls may wear brass collars from the age of two to five years old, as it is more comfortable to lengthen the neck slowly. The alternative is rapid and painful lengthening of the neck at around the age of twelve, when girls first begin to compete for the attention of boys, (You've got to keep in mind this is without the bubble of media and is a tribe based notion of what it deemed a attractive look for Girls) quote from wiki, and there loads of different examples over the world where women of the time have conformed to what the notation of beauty is in there society, be that European, Asian African or Western. But from a Sikh view point it’s all just rubbish, Gurbani has such a cold and Harsh analogy of what the prasuit of Beauty is bisattaa asath rakath paraettae chaam | you are just excrement, bones and blood, wrapped up in skin eis oopar lae raakhiou gumaan |3| - this is what you are taking such pride in! ||3|| Way to put things in to perspective

Lol really you believe that??

Well tbh that’s how it works, Kaal uses our own thoughts against us, so something you might think of, might become true, negative or positive and you connect that to God, but you dont know how God interacts with us, so are basing this on what you think God does. How it works is this life is game against the Punj choor, they are ones active in our life second to second, and depending on how much we are entrapped within Maya, the force put on us varies, we dont know this due to not knowing enough about Guru jee Writings and listening to Sants who have played and won this game, Sant isher singh, Sant waryam singh ji are examples of Gurshikhs with knowledge of the other side and the Game. So due to this our state of mind according to Gurbani is drowning or called asleep within Maya. To test if you are trapped is simple, take a seat and close your eyes and sit there and try not have a thought, if you can go 20 mins to 1 hour without any involuntary thoughts you are not controlled by Kaal, punj choor, but if doing simran or path your bombarded with thoughts you fit that example of asleep. My advice is to listen to audios of Sant Isher singh Jee, also Sant Buppinder singh jee, who is currently alive and doing parchaar on True Sikhi, which is Spritual based which is the Mind, Atma, Punj Choor, learn about how they affect the mind, and this will tell you whether its Ego effecting you or Attachment and so on. My advice is to listen to a Bachan a Gur Mukh once told me, he said if everyone just followed 1 shabad of our Sat Guru, they would never come within chrasi again. jaijaavanthee mehalaa 9 | . beeth jaihai beeth jaihai janam akaaj rae | Slipping away - your life is uselessly slipping away. . nis dhin sun kai puraan samajhath neh rae ajaan | Night and day, you listen to the Puraanas, but you do not understand them, you ignorant fool! . kaal tho pehoochiou aan kehaa jaihai bhaaj rae |1| rehaao | Death has arrived; now where will you run? ||1||Pause|| . asathir jo maaniou dhaeh so tho thaero hoe hai khaeh | You believed that this body was permanent, but it shall turn to dust. . kio n har ko naam laehi moorakh nilaaj rae |1| Why don't you chant the Name of the Lord, you shameless fool? ||1|| . raam bhagath heeeae aan shaadd dhae thai man ko maan | Let devotional worship of the Lord enter into your heart, and abandon the intellectualism of your mind. . naanak jan eih bakhaan jag mehi biraaj rae |2|4| O Servant Nanak, this is the way to live in the world. ||2||4|| . Heres a link to the shabad being Sung by one of our Jewel Kirtanis from the 1900's http://www.sikhnet.c...ar-ko-naam-laih

This will just come down this group believes this other group believe this.. Kinda a idiotic argument, theres alot of disagrements in between groups to what they believe is true, like Sant Jarnail singh has said Raag Mala is bani but Bhai Randeer singh from what I've learnt has said its not, this is one of many. its a shame im not on a higher level so could tell you from experience, but i can talk about where I am, and not above. But my post has explained how guru shiabs gave amrit its through shabad, and How guru jee says that 5 piaaria make water in to amrit is written within Sukhmani shiabs, its through dristi (there eyes/vision)

All the universe is made from the 5 elements, so everything. The Mool of Maya is Such and the Mool of the 5 elements is Maya. So everything you can see is Maya, Guru is above Maya and cannot be reached by Kaal/Maya, this is called Joth/Unhadh Remember Guru Shiabs Joth traveled from one body to another, and that same Jooth is with in Sat Guru now, hence we give sat kaar to the form that Guru has taken, but not in idol worshipped. I think people are misinterpreting me, Of cource you belive Guru Granth Shaib is your Sat Guru, as the Light (Joth) of Vaheguru is within the Bani, but if people believe that Guru Shaibs told us to idol worship them in physical form, your wrong, the love for Vaheguru is of the Mun and Vaheguru, the body has no relevance apart from being a vessel, guru shaibs is saying detach from Maya and come back to your true home which is above Maya. Cant be any clearer than this.

This is exactly what i mean Thats true, But Guru Shaibs have said there are Balahaar to anyone who has Met God, and are worthy of worship/seva, called sant ke seva but that Sant, Mahapurkh would never allow his/her worship to be done, much like Sant Kartar Singh walked out of the Gurdwara, when they started doing Jakaras when he walked in, when he was asked why did you walk out, he replied No man should be praised in the court of the Lord. So we should be wary of anyone who allows them selves to be bowed down to.

Not much of a teacher, if he doubts without doing his own research. I hope he isnt your Science teacher.. as if he is man i would get the hell out of there, next he'll be saying i don't believe there was a dude called Einstein or Newton purely on the basis that he hasn't met them T_T

Lol drink from my feet?? Hell no, only if you knew what my socks smelt like Alias its a common assertion that Guru Shaibs gave charran Pual, but this is false, subsequently its due to this belief that fake sants sadhs and gurus get away with having there congregation do charran pual. But even if these Sadhs didnt, it wouldn’t make it not true per say that Gurus didnt do this. That’s not my argument. The argument for of idol worship of the Humans body or any Form made from 5 elements is forbidden. I'll explain why Bhagat Trilochan Ji says this Body is Maya and any attachment with it is a false activity and will cause you to take rebirth. goojaree | Goojaree: anth kaal jo lashamee simarai aisee chinthaa mehi jae marai | At the very last moment, one who thinks of wealth, and dies in such thoughts, sarap jon val val aoutharai |1| shall be reincarnated over and over again, in the form of serpents. ||1|| aree baaee gobidh naam math beesarai | rehaao | O sister, do not forget the Name of the Lord of the Universe. ||Pause|| anth kaal jo eisathree simarai aisee chinthaa mehi jae marai | At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts, baesavaa jon val val aoutharai |2| shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. ||2|| anth kaal jo larrikae simarai aisee chinthaa mehi jae marai | At the very last moment, one who thinks of his children, and dies in such thoughts, sookar jon val val aoutharai |3| shall be reincarnated over and over again as a pig. ||3|| anth kaal jo mandhar simarai aisee chinthaa mehi jae marai | At the very last moment, one who thinks of mansions, and dies in such thoughts, praeth jon val val aoutharai |4| shall be reincarnated over and over again as a goblin. ||4|| anth kaal naaraaein simarai aisee chinthaa mehi jae marai | At the very last moment, one who thinks of the Lord, and dies in such thoughts, badhath thilochan thae nar mukathaa peethanbar vaa kae ridhai basai |5|2| says Trilochan, that man shall be liberated; the Lord shall abide in his heart. ||5||2|| That includes the body of the Gurus, as they gave no extra reverence to their body which was made from 5 elements, why? Because these elements are Nass Waan (ending/not forever) eaehu sareer sabh mool hai maaeiaa | This body's source/origin is Maya dhoojai bhaae bharam bhulaaeiaa | in love with duality, it is deluded by doubt. The underlying Message by Guru Jee is detach from All Maya, sukham (spiritual maya) and element based. Guru Gobind went as far as saying that anyone calling me God would go to Hell jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai | mo ka dhaas thavan kaa jaano | yaa mai bhaedh n ranch pashaano | 32 | Translation:- "Those who call me God, will fall into the pit of hell. Regard me as a humble servant of the Lord and have no doubt about it." All this body is, is temporary vessel for the Mind and other Sukam Jeevs (spiritual beings ie Punj choor ect) Guru Nanak Dev Jee started Sikhi of with 1 (ik oankaar) this is called our Mool (Origin) mool jaan galaa karae haan laaeae haan | Speak with those who know the Primal Lord, and renounce your evil ways. mool n bujhai aapanaa vasath rehee ghar baar | He does not understand his own origins; the merchandise remains within the door of his own house. As for Sadh sangat your right about the Reverence of them within Sat Gurus writings, they are called the Beloved ones. ko aan milaavai aj mai pir mael milaaveae | If only someone would come today and unite me in Union with my Beloved. ho jeeo karee this vitto cho khanneeai jo mai piree dhikhaaveae | I would cut my living body into four pieces for anyone who shows me my Beloved. But the more you read about Sant kee Mahima the more you will see what the person doing Ustat is asking for, its Darshan, and being gifted Naam. (I haven’t done justice to the greatness of his Beloved, but I hope this shows there reverence within Guru Bani) Now I'll cover how Guru Shaibs gave Amrit before Guru Gobind left the duty to 5 Piaaria They gave Amrit from inside by making that person do Shabad Abiaas. anmrith ras sach anmrith bolee gur poorai anmrith leechai jeeo |3| The True Essence is Ambrosial Nectar; through the Ambrosial Words of the Perfect Guru, this Amrit is obtained. ||3|| sathigur saev anmrith ras chaakhae |3| Serving the True Guru, they drink in the Amrit, the Ambrosial Nectar. ||3|| What is Guru Ke Seva gur kee saevaa kar piraa jeeo har naam dhiaaeae | Serve the Guru, O my dear soul; meditate on the Lord's Name. If we call our selfs the Followers of the Immaculate Guru, and we want to be pleasing to them saa saevaa keethee safal hai jith sathigur kaa man mannae | Fruitful and rewarding is that service, which is pleasing to the Guru's Mind. What is that Service jo saas giraas dhiaaeae maeraa har har so gurasikh guroo man bhaavai | One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind. Alias, the message of Guru sahib from the day they started preaching was to detach from Maya and give no reverence to the living world as it is Naas Waan (ending) that included his and our physical body, they always attached Gods children to their Mool (origin) which is Vaheguru, and never themselves. As this is the only Eternal Pursuit. sathagur sach prabh niramalaa sabadh milaavaa hoe |1| rehaao | The True Guru leads us to meet the Immaculate True God through the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause||

No he wrote that with the Biggest troll face ever seen on this Forum, im not worthy :respect:

I lol'ed so hard

Evil :D

Hi my names Jas, am i doing it right??

Hmm reading this i can see a point, if you know someone who would kill there own daughter before or after because of tradition, should be boycotted as goes for fake saints who collect money in the name of Sat Guru and so on. But we can easliy slip in to hate and judging, which Guru shaibs has said only God has the authority to. As for talking to monay, hmm well again you have a point, if all they do to have a good time is go to partys, drink and so on, i would advice not to join them, but you have things like school, collage and work, where you are around people like this all the time, what do you do not talk to them that ridiculous, imo If you followed this to the tee i could just imagine that scene where you get that akward kid thats always sitting on his own during lunch