>Bikramjit Singh<

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! R.Singh Veerji You are quite right. The tuk has been translated wrongly by Pheena Ji. Every Steek I have come across translates the line in the way that you have quoted. Guru Gobind Singh is saying that he rejects the tenets espoused by the Korans and the Purans as well as the Ram of the Hindus and the Raheem of the Muslims. GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Bhainji from what you have written it does seem that your cousin may be a victim of Muslim conversion attempt. It is hard for someone who has arrived to a new country and does not know many fellow Sikhs. These Muslim conversion attempts firstly identify someone who does not know much about Sikhi and does not have many friends. They will do the usual pretending to be his friends. Show some fake interest in knowing about Sikhi knowing full well that that person does not have much knowledge. They will then start bombarding him with literature and how Islam has the 'answer' for everything. They obviously do not let that person discover the true picture that most Muslim scholars disagree over the minutest details. These 'friends' then look for opportunities when they can help him out and generally hang around him like a bad smell allowing the person no time to think about his situation. They try to become a part of that person's life so much so that that person starts to rely on them. That person then feels like they owe his Muslim 'friends' something and think that converting to their religion is a way of paying back their 'kindness'. I doubt that your cousin knows much about Islam but mostly has the Islamic propaganda that these people rely on. I do not have any contacts in Windsor but can I suggest that you try and post on the Tapoban forum http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/list.ppa?f=1 as most of the posters seem to be from Canada. It is a sad fact that although we have Gurd waras in most places in the world yet it is hard to find the kind of support that your cousin needs. Please update us on how you are getting on and feel free to PM me should you require any online help. GurFateh Bikramjit Cwif kqyb rwmu Bju baury julm krq hY BwrI ] kbIrY pkrI tyk rwm kI qurk rhy pichwrI Give up your Korans, and remember the Lord, you fool, and stop oppressing others so badly, Kabeer has grasped hold of the Lord`s Support, and the Muslims have utterly failed ( SGGS 477 )

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Is that the Russian Sukhmani Kaur ? If it is her then I think she works for Guru Nanak School in Hayes, Middx The full contact details of the school are-; Guru Nanak Sikh Secondary School Springfield Road, Hayes, Middlesex, UB4 0LT England Tel:020 8573 6085 GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Great to hear that Veerji. We need more people prepared to come forward and create multi-media for the community. Can I ask what Shabads or Songs you will be using in your video. Might I suggest 'Ek si Ajit, Ek Si Jujhar, Kalgianwale de laad pyaray'. I bought this tape in India in 1989 and it is one of the best religious songs I have heard. I'll try and locate it and give you some further information. Also you might want to watch the video made by Balait Da Sher Veerji if you haven't already http://forums.waheguroo.com/index.ppa?act=...=ST&f=13&t=7300 GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Just on a minor point. Can we keep to what Gurbani says and start to ADD bits on according to our own views? Nowhere in Japji Sahib does it state that Jesus and Mohammed are in Gian Khand. Had they been there, there is no doubt that Guru Nanak would have added their names to the list of the people in Gian Khand. Jesus and Mohammed might be important and well known around the world but Guru Nanak states that the countless number of Sidhs, Naths etc were in Gian Khand because they followed the path towards self realisation and fighting the five vices. Read any biography of Mohammed, even the ultra PC sanitised versions and you will realise that he gave full rein to the five vices and did not attempt to control them. So how can he be in the Gian Khand, the realm of divine knowledge? GurFateh >Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! I'm happy that Bush won. He's not the most articulate of people but having Kerry in the white house would have been a disaster. He is a appeaser pure and simple and he is one of those people who always cry out 'why do they hate us' whenever some Muslim terrorists set off a bomb in the US. Kerry in the white house would have been a victory for Ossama bin laden. GurFateh Bikramjit

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Google only passes out Gmail invites sporadically... so no one starts out with any. I know my brother got a bunch of invites on his first week of joining up... it took me more than a month and a half to get any. So... just wait and hope they come :wub: vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Google must lo ve me or something, they gave me a bunch of invites in the first week! :D If anyone wants an invite PM me . GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Yeah the Bibi seems really talented, I think she should have a great career in Gurmat Sangeet if she puts her mind to it It would be a waste of such a wonderful gift and talent if she didn't pursue a career in Music. GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Yup being on this forum and being in the company of so many Gursikhs makes me smile. If only the rest of the Sikhs could have the unity and the brotherhood and sisterhood we have on this forum. There is nothing Sikhs would not be able to achieve GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Gotta admit, there's some well talented ppl here GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Khalsapreet Veer I had a similar experience to the one you had. I was at a Sikhi camp in 1996 in Staffordshire. The Kirtan being sung was 'Humri Karo Haath dey Rachha' I felt the same feeling of oneness that you felt. I guess it's when for a split second your dubidha ends and you realise that everything is ONE. GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Ha ha Balwinder Kaur Bhainji mere Veer Mr Singh ne mainu gmail di invite bhej ditti. Dhanevaad Mr Singhji. Mainu tahanu pucchna vi nahi piya. Nah mainu sabak sikhna piya Ithey lokin amey horan noon gmail invite bheji jande nay. Jimay gmail 'going out of fashion' hoyi jandi hai GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Wow Bhainj, I'm from the same Jilla as yourself, Ludhiana though we're from the Jagroan side rather than Ludhiana city. I've been to India too many times, first was 88, then 89 for my sister's wedding, then 94,95,98,99,2000,2001, 2002 (twice), 2003 and 2004. GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! What's with all these gmail invites? And how comes people living in the middle of nowhere like Bhainji Jkaur ( aka malaysia/singapore wali ) have got gmail and me living in Southall ain't got one Someone send me an invite I feel well left out :lol: Gurfateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Agree with everyone on this thread even Akaal108 aka Neo. That's a first! Anyway Ak47 Bro your post is a timely reminder that we should not tar all with the same brush. There have been and there are some great Mahanpurushs who do a great deal of Sikhi parchar. As Mr Singh said we need to be Brahmgyanis ourselves to recognise a Brahmgyani so when we ourselves are of no account how can we try and judge who is and who isn't a Brahmgyani. Calling for anyone to be killed or burnt alive shows how foolish people can get when they let their irrational hate envelope themselves. GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Yeah it was a good programme, afterwards he went to himachal but I switched channels so don't whether he chatted to the Dalai Lama or not. About the beer drinking, I think Michael Palin although he has a dry sense of humour, he is respectful of people's traditions. I don't think he went to Harmandir Sahib the same day as he had a beer at the Wagha border. He was respectful of our traditions and did not that no drugs, cigarettes or alcohol are allowed in the complex. So I doubt he would have gone there after having a beer. It was good to see that the Singh who was with him and answered his questions was knowledgable and gave good answers. The langar scene was good especially when the Singh pointed out that it is not just the Harmandir sahib where Langar is served but also in all Gurdwaras. Palin seemed quite impressed with that. As well as the fact that the emperor Akbar had to sit in Pangat before we got Darshan of the Guru. All in all it was informative and knowing the many white people who watch his programmes I think it will give people a good impression of what Sikhs are and what we believe. GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Bhai Harbhajan Singh was a great soul. As some of the members said his greatest contribution was to bring thousands of non-Punjabis into Sikhi. This was the first time since the times of the Gurus that large numbers of non-Punjabis took to Sikhi and their presence has brought a new dimension of universality to Sikhi. Bhai Harbhajan Singh carried the message of Sikhi to the USA and his loss is a loss to the entire Sikh world. I congratulate this forum for creating such an eyecatching and graceful banner in honour of Bhai Sahib. If only we Sikhs could be unted at all times and not just at times such as these. GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Just a few of my views 1. Doing Kirtan at the Harmandir Sahib is a great honour but with it also comes great responsibility. As some of the members have said, doing any Kirtan in public means you are preaching to the Sangat, at Harmandir Sahib the pictures will be seen around the world on satellite TV. So the person doing the Kirtan is not only preaching to the thousands of Sangat in the Harmandir Sahib but also potentially millions of Sikhs around the world. So if the person does not even have the Saroop of a Sikh then what example are we showing to the younger generation of Sikhs? What will their reply be when we tell them that the Saroop is important? Won't they say 'but I saw a person without the saroop doing Kirtan at Harmandir Sahib' 2. The issue of this person doing Kirtan at other Gurdawaras has no bearing on allowing him to do Kirtan at Harmandir Sahib. Those city Gurdwaras are owned by local Sangats and their committees' sole aim is to get the greatest number of Sangat in to listen and get as much Charawa as possible. Whatever affect, good or bad the sight of a person without the Saroop has on the Sangat is not an issue with these committees. 3. Someone has mentioned that these Rababis do a 'kurli' after doing Kirtan because Kirtan is 'Kafir's' Bani!! If this is TRUE then these people should be stopped from doing Kirtan in any Gurdwara. When Gurbani proclaims that 'Kalyug Mein Kirtan Pardhaana' then what these people are doing is just a business and far more disgusting is the fact that they show such irreverence to G urbani. 4. Natsilahk has given a great example, we Sikhs of today seem to lay great stress on the so-called descendents of various historical persons. This person claims to be the descendent of Bhai Mardana but we all know that Bhai Mardana lived a Gursikh lifestyle so if this person is right then somewhere along the line the family must have fallen from their Gursikh status. So this person has no automatic right to be allowed to do Kirtan at Harmandir Sahib. 5. I would much rather fight for the rights of Sikh Bibiyan to be allowed to do Kirtan at Harmandir Sahib then waste time fighting for someone who seems to have no faith in Gurbani but solely as a means to fleece the Sikhs. Kandola Veerji Were those who used to do Kirtan at the Sangat of Guru Arjan Dev or in the Sangat of any of the Gurus 'Hindus and Muslims'? Those people were Sikhs and there is no historical record of any 'Hindu' or 'Muslim' doing Kirtan in the Gurus' Sangats. The tradition of Rababis goes back only to the times of Maharaja Ranjit Singh when the adminstration of the Harmandir Sahib was run of the lines of a state department. As in all departments Hindus and Muslims could be employed so also in the Harmandir Sahib. After the British tool over they regularised this arrangement even further by officially giving the Kirtanias and the Rababis their share in the Charawa. Don't waste you time in sending emails to SGPC for these type of people whose sole reason for doing Kirtan is for making money. Instead send emails to the SGPC to allow the Sikh Bibiyan to be allowed to do Kirtan in the Harmandir Sahib. GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Mr Singh Excellent post Bhaji! You are so right, if God wanted anyone to be punished because they did not worship Him then He would deal with that person in the twinkling of an eye. This is one of the main differences between Sikhi and Islam and probably one of things that a Muslim can never understand about Sikhi, Waheguru bears neither enmity or hatred towards anyone, Wahguru as the Mool Mantar states is both Nirbhau and Nirvair IK ONKAAR SAT NAAM KARTA PURKH NIRBHAU NIRVAIR AKAAL MOORAT AJOONI SABHANG GUR PARSAAD There is only one god Truth is his name He is the creator He is without fear He is without hate He is timeless and without form He is beyond birth and death, The enlightened one He can be known by the guru's grace Inversely having been taught from a young age the concepts of God in the Mool Mantar it is difficult for us Sikhs to understand a God like Allah who hates people who do not believe in him so much so that he demands their deaths if they reject him. Yasmin Surely each person has the right to choose whatever religion they wish to belong to? Maybe that is too radical a belief for you. Punishment for harm done we Sikhs can understand, if the person committed a crime or assaulted anyone then he should be rightly punished but killing someone just because they no longer believe in Islam is barbaric and not civilised person could ever agree with that. Another radical concept from Sikhi, we Sikhs are taught to care about our fellow man no matter what their religion. Our 9th Guru, Guru Tegh Bahadur was martyred for standing up for the rights of Hindus to practice their beliefs without oppression. Even though the Guru's teachings are in variance with the beliefs of the Hindus. GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Japnaam Singh Totally agree with you Bhaji. I think that hating the US and disagreeing with it's policies is the trendy thing to do at the moment. Just a question for those who think that the US is bad can you imagine what the world would be like if the US didn't exist? No wonder Muslims hate the US so much it is one of the main countries that stand the way of their dream of world domination GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Yasmin It seems that you have the attitude that if someone doesn;t agree with you that Islam is a 'peaceful' religion then that person is not open minded!! This is really funny because by stating that you see nothing wrong is killing someone just because they do not wish to remain a Muslim you have shown just how dangerous a threat Islam is to the free world. You chose not to answer my question from my previous post The reason that I did not comment greatly on Mehtab Singh's post was because he was referring to Bahrain and Oman which are quite free societies when Saudi Arabia has full Sharia in operation. GurFateh Bikramjit

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Thanks Mehtab Singh for the information. In Saudi Arabia it is official policy as part of Sharia law not to allow any non-Muslim places of worship to be built. In fact anyone even carrying a non-Muslim religious book is liable to be arrested! The funny thing is that Yasmin complains about Sharia law not being implementated fully but it is because of it's non full implementation that Sikhs and Hindus enjoy rights to free worship in Oman and Bahrain On the perception of Islam as a 'religion of peace' there is a great response to the recent CAIR survey about anti-Muslim attitudes in the US GurFateh Bikramjit Singh from http://www.jihadwatch.org/

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Yasmin I wish you would read what you have written and not mask it under the 'laws of God' excuse. You have basically said that it is OK to kill someone because they have exercised their right to freedom of religion as accepted by all civilised nations. Then you claim that it is worrying when non-Muslims feel so strongly that Islam is a threat to the freedoms that they enjoy. You cannot have it both ways. How can you then claim that Islam is a religion of peace? The Taliban were as their name implies were scholars or students of Islam. Their leaders studied Islam all their lives and they attempted to implement all the nonsense regulations that occur in the Hadiths. You have already admitted that you do not have that much knowledge of Islam but you think that you know your religion better than those like the Taliban who studied it all their lives I think you're version of Islam may not be recogised as such by the vast majority of Muslims. Sharia law is simply unworkable, this is the truth of the matter. What happens is that some countries just leave out the unworkable regulations of Sharia law but this does not show that Sharia law in it's entirety would work but just that even Muslim countries are aware that some regulations are simply not relevant for the 21st century and should be left in the 7th century where they belong. Lately even the Muslims in Nigeria have been protesting at the way Sharia law works :lol: <br> As far as I am aware the Taliban as well as Saudi implement the whole of the Sharia law. So you get the kind of discrimination against non-Muslims in these countries which if the opposite was the case for Muslims in the west they would be filing lawsuits against the government and ranting and raving about 'Islamophobia' A non-Muslim is not able to build any Churches, Synagogues, Gurdwaras or Mandirs in Saudi. This is because the Koran and Hadiths state that Allah wishes no non-Muslim worship in Saudi Arabia? How would you as a Muslim feel if the Christians in the UK said that all Mosques will need to close and no Muslim can worship because the UK is a Christian country? It's not the numbers it is the behaviour. How many Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus or other non-Muslims do you know that have slammed 2 planes into a skyscraper or have bombed a nightclub and trains killing hundreds of innocent people?

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! That is an age old excuse. If you point out the flaws in Sharia ( so called divinely ordained law) then Muslims always use the excuse that the country where the law is being practicised is not truely 'Islamic' How about Afghanistan under the Taliban? Weren't they 'truely' Islamic? I mean their leaders had studied the Koran and Hadiths all their lives, so how was it that they didn't implement the 'true' Islamic law? There are a number of countries where there is Sharia law and in each case it discriminates against non-Muslims. Let me ask you one simple question, why is it that under Sharia law a Muslim must be killed if he converts to another religion? I assume that you are living in the west, so tell me either you do not agree with this ( and all Islamic scholars agree that an apostate must be killed ) or you think it is correct and that a Muslim should not have the right to leave Islam. I await your answer. GurFateh Bikramjit Singh

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Nice to know I have you a laugh!! The anti-Cair site is run by just one guy who views CAIR as a threat to his country. He is getting sued by CAIR but according to most experts CAIR has made a mistake by suing him because it now means that his attorney can look into all the private records of CAIR and show them up to be what the anti-CAIR site alleges. Did you actually look past the title of the website or was the fact that it has 'anti' in it was enough reason for you to avoid it. Did you read where the CAIR leaders opening admit to supporting Hamas? How about the fact that four or more of their leaders are in jail for openly supporting terrorists? some advocacy group eh? Check this website, it's not anti anyone but it is run by the well known columnist and middle east expert Daniel Pipes, See what he makes of CAIR http://www.danielpipes.org/cair.ppa GurFateh Bikramjit Singh