Sher Khalsa

WOW. I just saw this thread. Firstly, I believe in Dasam Granth and am 100% against Prof. Darshan Singh and Kala Afghana and their views. Also, I have respect for the AKJ Singh's that I know. I have not been on the AKJ forums in years and can not comment on what has been posted there. But, those who are attacking Bhai Harpreet Singh, you don't know him, don't know his way of life - don't know anything about him. Do yourself a favour and stop the attacks before you bankrupt yourself with the huge karmic debt you will never be able to repay.

This had nothing to do with pro or anti Dasam Granth

How is that relevant? If it is relevant please paste the relevant section of the Criminal Code so we can look at it. Also, the Criminal Code of Canada is a federal statute and, as such, applies equally to all provinces. It applies equally to all, then are all the rules the same, across the provinces? You can't see the connection between anybody is able to carry a knife with a 3 to 4 inch blade and Sikhs carrying Kirpans as freedom of religion? If Sikhs are not allowed to carry a kirpan then it becomes an infringment on their rights as Canadians. It seems like you want to prove me wrong so pull up the criminal code and tell everyone which section speaks on knife carrying. And if there is not a section like this that exist, then just say it doesn't exist. Here is the whole code http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.html here you go sir, http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.30.html If the link does not open up then please go to section 30 of the criminal code of Canada. Darshan laal has been recongized as an excommunicated person from the Khalsa Panth, ruling given by the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahb ji. Every Sikh or person that calls himself a Sikh or is a member of a Gurdwara or any other Sikh organization must obey the order given by the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib ji (not to associate or let him(Darshan Laal0 speak at a Sikh function). This ruling applies to everyone. Since Darshan Laal knew his presence and giving a sermon will cause problems(we saw violence break out in UK and will violate his conditions) and he is going against the Supreme Authority(Sri Akal Takht Sahib ji) and he was well aware of what will take place (the peace will be disturbed) then in my opinion his actions were intentional and deliberate. Which means a judge can give a ruling where Darshan Laal is not allowed to speak at any Sikh function, until the Supreme Authority of Sikhism gives him the right too. Otherwise Darshan laal will try to speak again at a Gurdwara and cause problems in Canada again. It is not my intent to prove you wrong, but to have a well thought out discussion without jumping to conclusions. In regards to Canadians having the right to carry a knife that is 3-4 inches in length, I haven't looked at the Criminal Code to find that Section but assuming that it does exist, I would comment as follows: 1) The Courts have recognized that the Kirpan is an "ARTICLE OF FAITH", if it was to be defined as a knife, we would be in trouble. I strongly recommend that no one refer to it as a knife or a weapon - it is an ARTICLE OF OUR FAITH that we are required to have on our person at all times. Also, most people should have a kirpan between 6 and 12 inches in length, that would not fit in the 3-4 inch exemption for knives that you referred to. That being said, a kirpan is not a knife and should not be defined as one. 2) There is case law around the kirpan and we need to be careful on how we represent our faith and articles of faith to the general public. Relying on a provision in the criminal code around knives will do no good but will have a lot of negative repercussions. In regards to Section 30 of the Criminal Code, I can assure you that it does not apply to this situation and Darshan nor anyone affiliated with Sikh Lehar Centre will be charged for what happened at the protest. This is what it comes down to in my mind. 1) Sikh Lehar Centre was established to cause trouble and preach Kala Afghana/Darshan propoganda 2) Darshan is not to speak at any Gurdwara as per Akal Takht 3) Sikh Lehar Centre has allowed Darshan to speak despite Akal Takht ruling 4) Singhs have been upset with Sikh Lehar Centre since it opened and with its members and supporters 5) Singhs heard Darshan was to speak on Friday at Sikh Lehar, they gathered at Glidden Gurdwara to organize a protest to stop Darsahn from speaking 6) An hour before going to Sikh Lehar from Glidden Gurdwara Singhs received notice that Darshan was not going to speak and that the program was cancelled 7) Protestors decided that since they will still go to Sikh Lehar Centre, out of the large group of protestors a small groups sole purpose was to fight and they were heard saying things like "get ready to give your head" 8) Protestors arrived and tried to enter the Sikh Lehar Centre and were denied entry and were told that the program by Darshan was cancelled (people may say denying access to a gurdwara is means for violence BUT Malton Gurdwara, Dixie Gurdwara, Rexdale Gurdwara have all denied access to different people at different times and are all a 10 minute drive from Sikh Lehar Centre - so it does not make sense for anyone to take a stand only here and not at the others - that is hypocrisy) 9) Mangat was pulled grabbed by 1 angry protestor and then another prominent protestor yelled "Fardo" and Mangat was then rushed by a group of people, at that time his face was stomped, his hair was pulled, he was punched in the face and stabbed 3 times. 10) After the protest certain members of the protest went online and boasted about their accomplishments 11) The issue blew up in the media At the end of the day, based on the above facts which have been verified by protestors who were there to support those who were against Darshan and to speak in support of Dasam Bani , and were disgusted by what they saw, what happened was not justified. The whole purpose of the protest was to stop Darshan from speaking - he was not even at the program - MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Whatever happened after that was out of hate and ego - not based on Sikh principles. In 84' mobs of hindus attacked Sikhs in Delhi - in mobs - it is easy to attack people in a mob - that is not bravery - any coward can do that. It's sad that the protestors acted as a mob and even worse used a Kirpan on a unarmed man who was not even fighting. A kirpan should never be used - as you can see from what has resulted from this incident. If the protestors had kept their calm, thought about the big picture, and stopped once they achieved their goal - they would have full support of Toronto Sangat. From those who know the facts, it as almost unanimous that Darshan Ragi is an evil person and Sikh Lehar Centre is up to no good, but that the attack should never have happened and was not justified based on the facts and based on Sikh principles. Its not a question of whether you are against or support Darshan its a question about what happened at the protest and whether is what justified or not.

How is that relevant? If it is relevant please paste the relevant section of the Criminal Code so we can look at it. Also, the Criminal Code of Canada is a federal statute and, as such, applies equally to all provinces. Please post the relevant section of the Criminal Code under which Sikh Lehar Centre/Members or Darshan Laal can be charged and explain. I don't think you are correct. I don't agree with their views and believe Darshan is a GOI agent that is purposely causing trouble to turn public opinion against us and to split the community. Sadly, because the protestors got out smarted and outmanouvered and lost their cool - Darshan is winning at this game.

Upon what basis have you stated that the majority of Sikhs worldwide do not support Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale? I have not watched "A Sikh Story", please set out the points that it made which lead you to beleive that it exposed Sant Ji - so that they can be addressed point by point based on facts.

GPS. Just because you talk more and post more doesn't make your view more right. I've been reading these threads and anyone who posts a different view than yours - you label them a kala afghana supporter or a darshan ragi supporter. From what you have posted you are not properly informed about the events that led up to and transpired at and after the protest. At the end of the day, the truth can be hidden, distorted and misrepresented - but the truth still remains the truth. What happened that day is what happened no matter how you massage it.

You should get your facts straight. The gurdwara was not goign to be turned into a funeral home. In fact, 19% of the building would have been used to store dead bodies and the other 81% would have remained a gurdwara. Never in our history, has a funeral home and a gurdwara been in the same building. In fact - guru sahib doesnt give any importance to dead bodies. Also, they wanted to raise a black nishan sahib at the gurdwara with 19% space zoned for dead bodies - which also has no basis. Anyways, some of the sangat that is now helping operate Old Rexdale, even offered those that wanted to convert 19% of it into a funeral home land in brampton for free to build a funeral home, or offered to build it themselves at their own cost at a different site - aslong as a gurdwara and funeral home were not mixed... those that wanted to turn it into a funeral home refused. Peoples intentions become clear once you learn the facts. The intentions of the funeral home crowd was to promote themselves with no regard to Gurusahib's satkaar. If they wanted a funeral home so bad, they could have had one free of cost at another site, but they only wanted a funeral home inside a gurdwara. If you don't believe what I have said, please check with the City of Toronto and check the zoning and the Ontario Municipal Board's decision on the matter - where only 19% of the buildign was to be a funeral home and the other 81% had to stay a gurdwara and guru sahib was going to remain parkash.

The Muslims are the ones doing the genocide

I think its a practice that should be discouraged.

I dont think anyone here actually celebrates Christmas - in the christian way. Seems like most people enjoy the holidays, put up a tree , etc. I am almost positive that no one hear drinks 'jesus's blood' or goes to 'mass'. ---- It comes down to whether you think a Sikh can enjoy 'non-sikh' holidays. That is up for debate, will it effect you spiritually or not, thats a choice that has to be made on an individual level. I know personally I love the christmas holidays, the days off are great. --- Also I'd be careful to proclaim anyone a Sant, including Jesus Christ. We have know way of knowing whether Jesus was a Sant or not. --- end of the day, none of this is relevant. At the end its a relationship between you and Guru Sahib. And yes it is a sacrifice, a sacrifice of LOVE --- and that love is what drives rehit, not the other way around. You can follow every possible rehit out there, but until you have that love from within, until you realize god within, until you start nurturing your soul (simran, bani), - everything you will have done will be useless. Look at these other religions they think if they follow a certain rehit, they will get to heaven, if they dont they will go to hell. Guru Sahib said its all about remembrance of god, love for god 24/7, and I believe from that will flow REHIT.... and without the first part - the rest is useless -- now how Christmas effects your relationship with god, is personal to you, and only you. whoever comes on and makes rules that a sikh can celebrate this, and cant celebrate that... is in a dangerous cycle and missing the point

tell me what i said that ticked you off? did i make fun of christianity? no! did i say christians are wrong? no! did i say Jesus was wrong? no! did i say that only Sikhy is right? no! did i say disrespect any faith? no! did i say what christians need to be doing? no! You come in here and read one of my post and decided to explode without even reading my others ones. Celebrate what you want, go do what you want on christmas, go put up what ever lights you want. Go sing what ever song you want. Since you wanna invite me so much stuff, ok. fine. Tell me which christmas song guru gobind singh ji sang? tell me how many presents he handed out on dec. 25th. Tell me how many lights he put up, tell me how and christmas trees he put up. Tell me what he did on that day that people say is celebrating christmas. ?????????? Can you please tell me when Guru Sahib surfed the internet, or went on MSN?

The commitee has nothing to do with this. Paathis and Granthi take care of day to day stuff, commitee just pays bills, gets visas, does repairs. this could have happened at any gurdwara. its easy to blame people, but they should only be blamed if its really their fault. It isnt the commitee that does parkash and sukhasaan of guru sahib. it isnt the commitee that gives the kid a lighter or match. it isnt the commitee that left guru sahib unattended

Thats the same mistake the babbars made in boycotting the election. You should learn from history, not repeat it.

eveyrone run, hide... kanga police is on the loose

I would say it is a part of rehit that can boost your spiritual jeevan. I personally do not keep sarbloh bibek, but to deny some of its benefits is wrong. But bibek of not eating from outside i believe is definetely important. In amrit sanchar, when the amrit is prepared, it is prepared in sarbloh, while bani is being recited into it. The vibrations from the sarbloh and the bani, make water into Amrit. When these vibrations go inside us they uplift our vibrations. (When our vibrations rise, we are spiritually uplifted). So it makes sense, that if we prepare our food in sarbloh while reciting bani, we will get good vibrations from that, which will go inside us, and help keep our good vibrations going. Even if we do not prepare our food in sarbloh, we should atleast be reciting bani while preparing our food. When we eat from outside, there are no positive vibrations going into that food. Infact there may be negative vibrations going into the food. When we read bani do bhagti, we are raising our vibrations, so it would make sense not to eat food that will lower those vibrations we are building, it would make more sense to eat food that will help us maintain where we are at or even raise it. There is a whole science about these 'vibrations', and many papers have been written about them by people of many faiths, these vibrations are something that no one can deny exists. And at the end of the day, we are here for one reason, and one reason only. To do bhagti, which directly raises our vibrations (thats the science behind it), so to do something that doesn't raise, and may lower those vibrations, is counter-productive. That's what I believe.

it makes no sense to reset this board, there are a lot of topics that members have put a lot of time into, debating, and researching, and typing up thoughtful posts. the admin has a terrible policy of deleting things when they get heated, instead of just locking it. That just throws away the time people took out to write their posts, thats like a slap in the face to people who took out time to write thoughtful posts.

the gurdwara in question probably is not a corporation, and is privately in someones name or in trust. many gurdwaras are like this

From Bhai Gurdas Ji's Vaaran gur BweI sMquSt kr crnwimRq lY muK ipvyhI] gur bhaaee santhushatt kar charanaamrith lai mukh pivaehee|| Man by becoming gurmukh- Guru oriented, makes his life meaningful; he reads Gurbani and makes others understand (the importance of) bani. He satisfies his companions and takes the holy water touched by their feet i.e. he inculcates complete humility. pYrI pvn n CofIAY klI kwl rihrws kryhI] pairee pavan n shhoddeeai kalee kaal rehiraas karaehee|| Humblytouching of the feet should not be repudiated because in the dark age, this quality is the only asset (of the human personality). http://searchgurbani.com/main.php?word=fee...r=1&pauri=3

is it in gurmukhi or english

naamdharis should not be allowed on gurdwra stage, they dont believe in SGGS Ji as guru, why would you put them on stage in a GURdwara when they dont even acknowledge GURu as GURu.,

From what I can see, this is a translation of Dasam Granth. Why would you want to get the translations out of the library? I personally have no problem with translations of bani being in a library. How else can the general public have access to Sikh resources? Translations and transliterations are not bani and don't need to be treated as such. Things are a bit different if the original is along side the translation but even then I don't think you need to have this removed from the library. If you really want a mission, the British Libraries have many puraatan hand-written saroops kept without any rehit at all. Try to arrange proper maryada for those. Even at Lahore Fort museum, a saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib is kept in a display case (though covered partially with a rumalla). AGREED

ummmm pakandi baba stop preaching stuff u know nothing about.... go to namstang's thread on the debate videos, check out baba hari singh answering the sant question.. on who is a sant and where sant is mentioned in gurbani.... dont spread stuff if u dont know... the key is katha, no one listens to katha, they use their own brain and think they know it all... listen to katha learn educate ur mind, thas wats the youth is missing these day.

thanks for posting that.. baba hari singh gives answers to common arguments on this message board such as... bibian in the panj... meat... the sant title... must watch

Committee Constituted on Dasam Granth Issue Wednesday 27th of December 2006 International Human Rights Organisation Ludhiana, Punjab - The Panthik meet assembled on the 23rd of December constituted a 7-member Prosecution Committee comprising of Harnam Singh, (Damdami Taksal), Principal Gurmukh Singh (Akhand Kirtani Jatha), Gurmat College, Patiala, Giani Sher Singh Nihang (Buddha Dal), Gurdwara Manji Sahib, Ambala, Baba Avtar Singh Nihang, Sursinghwale (Tarna Dal), Dr Jodh Singh Pbi Uni PTA, Gurcharanjit Singh Lamba, Editor Sant Sipahi and D S Gill Chiarperson IHRO. D S Gill will act as coordinator of the committee. The committee will prosecute all those opponents, who criticize Dasam Granth, in Courts through books, newspapers and other media and in the courts of law. The Sikh Meet, comprising of Sikh groups, institutions and scholars on 'Sri Dasam Granth and its spiritual and historical aspects', organised by the International Human Rights Organisation (IHRO) at Sri Guru Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Sarabha Nagar, Ludhiana, on December 23, 2006, after discussion, resolved as under: 1. That Sri Guru Granth Sahib is Guru of the Sikh Panth, as has been ordained by Guru Gobind Singh and Tenth Master's Bani- Sri Dasam Granth is sacred Bani and it has bee accepted so by the Sarbat Sangat worldwide. 2. That all those who doubt or create misunderstanding about Sri Dasam Granth, the Bani of Guru, are enemies of the Sikhs and are stooges of Brahminicals (Biparwadis) who are bent upon to rundown the Khalsa from its ideology by creating confusion about the (Dasam) Granth of the Khalsa. 3. That the antagonists of Sri Dasam Granth, while gratifying the Biparwadis, are playing in hands of intelligence agencies which are entrusted with the task of taking Sikhs away from their political issues and Panthak goals by involving them in unnecessary controversies (in the Panth) relating to Dasam Granth, Raag Mala, etc. 4. That the Sikhs have only Dasam Granth, besides Sri Guru Granth Sahib, as scripture that manifests the wondrous Khalsa. Dasam Granth is the only inspiration and source of Khalse di Rehat, Khalse de Udesh, Khalse de Kakaars, Khalse da Khanda, Banis of Nit Nam- 'Jaap Sahib', 'Chaupayee Sahib' and 'Tuve-Prasaad Sawayeeae', etc, Ardas of the Khalsa, Khalsa Mehma, Concept of Dharam Yudh, Khalsa de Jakare- Deg Teg Fateh, Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh, the character of the Khalsa and the concept of Charhdikala of the Khalsa. "Therefore, we are of the view and strongly believe that Dasam Granth is Granth of the Khalsa, without which Khalsa is meek and docile (tameable), and only he or she can correctly comprehend Dasam Granth who has full faith in the ideology of the Gurus. 5. That Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the only Scripture of the Sikhs, which has been conferred, with the status of the Guru by the Tenth Master. This status cannot be accorded to any other Sikh scripture. We also caution those who are wittingly or unwittingly trying to create confusion (doubts) on this count. 6. That these days, the adversaries are trying to condemn Dasam Bani quoting it as Triya Charitar. Not only that, they even do not hesitate to give a bad name to the Tenth Master of the Sikhs. "We want to clarify that the Triya Charitar's full connotation is 'Charitropakhyan' (a Sanskrit word) which literally means tale, true or lift up. And Bhai Mani Singh in Bhagat Mala has said, "Charitar have been there so that Singhs do not get indulged or trapped in women's intrigues and machinations." 7. That the so-called controversy about the Dasam Granth was finally resolved in 1931 when the entire issue was reviewed under the aegis of The Darbar Sahib Committee of the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC) which vindicated the earlier conclusions that the Dasam Granth was entirely the work (Bani) of Guru Gobind Singh. Thus, no individual has any right to create doubts or confusions about the Dasam Bani but after the Bhasauris, new Bhasauri types include Gurtej Singh (former IAS), Harbhajan Singh (Missionary), Gurbax Singh Kala Afgana, Joginder Singh (Spokesman), Rajinder Singh Khurana (Khalsa Panchayat) and Mohinder Singh Josh who have contributed nothing on Sikh thought, Sikh philosophy and spiritualism. "We, therefore, caution the Sikh Sangat to beware of such persons and to ignore them outrightly, calling upon them to stick to their Panthak, national goals and religio-political issues. We also warn the opponents and them to stop criticising the Dasam Bani." Other persons who participated in the meet included: Dr Harpal Singh Panuu, Prof Anurag Singh, Bhai Manjit Singh Taksal (Mehta Chowk), Principal Ram Singh (Study Circle), Bhai Hardip Singh, Taksal, Bhindran, Manjit Singh Clacutta, besides IHRO activists M S Grewal, Avtar Singh Gill, Sukhdev Singh Ramgarh Sibian, Tejwant Singh Grewal, Anmol Singh Grewal. 31 representatives attended the meet. (D S Gill) Chairperson

You have an opinion, which i respect. But I disagree with u. Sukha Singh has been of inspiration to many to start keeping kesh and following Guru G's path. I think its good that YOM has been someone from a different background. His story is inspirational. I love meeting him when i get the chance to do so. Tell me brother, have you met him? Just ignore him, all they do is criticize others, thats what they do. He'll say he stands for the truth this and that.... but everyone can judge for themselves what the missionaries really are, especially international akali and his buddy khalsa fauji. Their just bitter that their whole crew in toronto right now is excommunicated. who excummuncated? Vedenti... He is excummunicated... he is not jathedar of akal takht... he is a pakandi and a pujaree i want to be excommunicated out of your panth which is taksal which full of bhraman reets and it is filled up with bhakand... who cares what vedenti does... vedenti is nothing... simple he is a waste.. he is a RSS thug and has ties with them.... supporter of gurbalas pathshahi 6, dasam granth advocate etc... I dont care what sukha singh does but too make someone like that youth of month ?... what inspiration will he give? read tria chariters? what is your answer to this sher khalsa? tell little kids to read this or bibian? if your a man which you claim to not be excommunicated then lets go on Sikh Philosphy forum and do aarth of charitars? you down? its sad that you make fun of such pavitar name as akaali This thread was about Sukha Singh being youth of the month, not on tria chritar, Santa Singh, Sukha, or Badal. How do you get of saying that Sukha singh is a Sukha addict? Many Nihungs do not take Sukha - Baba Nihal Singh being one of notable name. Their is a common theme with you in every thread. You use every opportunity to go around and bash others, without thinking. As for the Taksal you are always bashing, the same Taksal that stood up to a whole governments army, and gave countless kurbani for thechardi kala of the panth all your points against taksal are refutable. I previously gave an example of how the list you made is flawed and you misinterpret what is written in Gurbani Paath Darshan. I wrote about the maryada of sohila sahib in a previous post and how it came out. If you don't want to accept it thats fine, but the problem is you go out and shamelessly attack Taksal, you will pay for this when you are forced to answer for yourself to Dharm Rai (oh wait, do you even believe in dharm rai? - since you cant see them or feel them or scientifically prove them). Now lastly, you are so ensecure that you feel the only way to justify your views on Sikhi is to go and put down others. If you are really secure in your beliefs you would be able to stand firm in your beliefs and not worry about what others do and not go out and bash others. Before you go and start trying to 'punk' panthic jathebandis look towards yourself. Whether you like it or not all your best buddies are excommunicated for the PANTH right now. You can make whatever excuse you want to justify it - BOTTOM LINE YOU BUDDIES ARE ALL OUT OF THE PANTH and since you still communicate and deal with them i consider you at the same status as them. Isn't it funny that your bapu ghagga said that Akal Takht doesnt have the guts to excommunicate him and now hes out. And further, your prof sahib who runs an academy, the one who goes on the radio full of hate straight punking others. I heard he is known to make the best chicken around, and this great Sikh leader/prof of yours, hes so great that he couldn't even get his children to walk on this path, instead he has them out partying late at night. I DONT WANT TO GET INTO STUFF THATS HIDDEN UNDER "YOUR PARDAH", thats not my point. My point is before you try and go rescue the panth, look at your buddies and the people you associate with and your views. and see where it has gotten you and your crew. if you havent figured it out, i'll tell you. ITS GOTTEN YOU NO WHERE. your just full of hate and eerkha, so are your buddies. your buddies are excommunicated. you guys dont have any spirituality coming out of you. your ideology gives rise to ppl like ghagga who say guru nanak ate halal meat out of fear. it gives rise to people like you who are afraid of other singhs, when Singhs who walk the spiritual path eradicate their fear. Man, WAKE UP ! ... i dont like having these type of discussions, but you just insist on them. CHECK YOUR SELF !