Sarbloh

Thanks for sharing. I live a few doors away from an elderly Pakistani Muslim couple. Everytime they see me in the morning the uncle always shouts out "Patialay Day Malikoo, Sat Sri Akaal". He also refers to Harmander Sahib as Darbar Sahib, which is quite pleasant. Nice couple, they make more of an effort with us then my Punjabi "Sikh" neighbour who seem to be freaked out by my dumaala and giggle when they see me in my bana!

I believe the origins of the modern Khanda symbol as we know is as per what Mahan Singh has written about above. Regardless of the age of the Khanda symbol it is still agreed by the Panth as a symbol representing our Kaum (faith and spiritual nation) which we see in our Nishan Sahibs and other articles of faith. The ownership and responsibility of the Khanda as a logo does fall on the Panth Khalsa as it presently stands. As accountable Sikhs we should take responsibility of the incorrect promotion of the Khanda symbol particularly so when it is used for corporate gain or non-Gurmat related actives. Otherwise all we carry on doing is tolerating a misrepresentation (which has now become a stereotype) of the drunk, dancing, unintelligent, overindulging Sardar community.

Besharam!! Well it's not far from the truth really. Looks the restraunteur is trying to tap into the "Sikh" market and is after the "Sikh" pound. I sometimes wonder why, as a community, we have failed to protect the abuse of the Khanda as a symbol. I think today people associate the Khanda more with Gangstas than with Gurdwaras. The average joe bloggs will see the khanda on back of a rude boys hoddy, hanging above the dashboard of a rude boy's car, tatooed on someone arm, on the shop front of their local off-licence and then maybe on the nishan sahib of our Guru Ghars.

http://www.abshar.co.uk/site/ When will these venues (see link above) stop promoting themselves with the Khanda Sahib? Why does the symbol of our kaum need to be paraded as an advertising logo for bars, restaurants, off-licenses. I called up the venue today and requested to speak to the Manager regarding the use of the Khanda in his advertising and shop-front. He declined to speak to me and said unless I have a booking there's no point discussing this. Perhaps it's time to start challenging business's who use the Khanda as their logo? It's interesting to see people think of the Khanda as a symbol of "khaan-peen" as a pose to dharamic.

Don't get me started on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Parkash utsav! Well, at least the Sikh radio stations made an effort. Looks the Gurpurps are left for the Sukhsagars and Amrit Bani radio stations to celebrate while the modern mega-Gurdwaras squeeze as many weddings in their multi halls as they possibly can.

As per our Sikh calendar, yesterday was Gurpurb (Joti jot Sri Guru Amardas Sahib and Sri Guru Ramdas Sahib and Gurgadi of Sri Guru Ramdas Sahib and Sri Guru Arjan Sahib). Visiting my local Guru ghars yesterday, not one held diwans during the day to celebrate Gurpurb. Instead the all the Gurdwaras hosted a whole array of lavish weddings. Bently's and Limos blocked the entrances of the Gurdwara. Women dressed as though they were going to dance in the rain in some bollwood movie. Rude boys swearing away. Even the maha multi-plex Gurdwaras with several halls were double booked with weddings. On one Gurdwara wall by the entrance several white wedding guests wearing the Gurdwara’s rumallay on their heads were enjoying a good natter and smoke whilst other “sikh” guests dosed around outside the Gurdwara. My local Gurdwaras felt like they were hijacked by manmat yesterday! What was happening down your local Gurdwara this weekend?

Waheguru! :WW: Well Said!!

Can mothers with children attend?

JSS, I have to disagree with you there. The presence of the namdhari "guruship" and constant re-representation of Sikh history and Maryada do have a direct impact on the Sikh panth. The problem is many of us are not prepared to see it like that and seem to look for evidence of historical conflicts. I think Singh 132 has given a good summary.

The BNP also use teh SIkhs to justify their cause in this respect, essentially they are saying "we are not being racist, look even the SIkhs complain about this issue". Yeh but his telling the truth isnt he. If the leader of bnp is opnely talking about this subject then fair play, but it would be even better if someone from more popular parties such as tories and labours did but they ignore thei issue of 13 year old white girls being used as sex slaves in north. Pimping is one of the oldest "trades" in the world, just like prostitution. It's not relgion, cultural or ethinically driven, it's immoral. Pimps come from all backgrounds. So the BNP cleverly highlight a grooming issue in the north because the groomers are of muslim backgrounds. What about the pimps who groom girls thorough drug pushing etc, from white backgrounds? Is that any more acceptable?

The Darbar Sahib looks amazing in the pictures above. Well done to all the sewadars.

Oh well. As they say a bad workman always blames his tools. Either take your wish list to your local Prabhandak committee or better your jeevan so that atleast you don't see those stories as "stupid and made up " and jusr "nursery rhymes". Instead of waiting for an example to be set stop being a numskull and become an example. whats wrong with what that list, these type of things should be taught in Gurdwara. Nothing wrong with your wish list, I agree with all your points. But I sense that all you are doing is passing blame onto others. What we need to realise is that we are not solving the problem because we are the problem. Each an everyone of us wants to blame the system and even blame Sikhi for everything that we see as wrong. An elder Nihang Singh once told me that all the Kamiya (shortcomings) you see in others are your own Kamiya, no body elses! Maharaj shows us see our own Kamiya in the actions of others. If you would rather listen and do the mehma of the vichaars of Nick Griffin to a Granthi Singh's than that's your own wish. I would rather back the Granthi Singh's vichaars because I know he is attempting to talk about Sikhi even though he may lack those professional presentation skills you desire!

Oh well. As they say a bad workman always blames his tools. Either take your wish list to your local Prabhandak committee or better your jeevan so that atleast you don't see those stories as "stupid and made up " and jusr "nursery rhymes". Instead of waiting for an example to be set stop being a numskull and become an example.

I dont really see the point in comparing Mr Griffin to Ghandi and Nehru. BNP wil never gain enough support to win an elections But we need Politicians to addresss thse type of issues, labour wont cos they dont want to loose pakistani votes. Do you really really think the majority of people take policticians like Nick Griffin and his agenda seriously? Wake up 'sikh_youth_uk', we live in a politically correct society where the views of BNP represent a right wing minority. Most people distance themselves from groups like the BNP. Do you think people will take your issue seriously because the BNP back it?!

Well said! If only some of our youth thought like that. Anyway all those "Singhs" who have sleepless regarding their Muslim and Hindu neighbours here's a quote: “The face of the enemy frightens me only when I see how much it resembles me”

It's an author's opinion!

LOL. Were you expecting him to be in a kurta? Getting freaked out by a young persons fashion is a sign of becoming an old codger!

Stop being so naïve! Are people that hell bent on Islamic grooming that they would vote a fascist party in? To vote for the BNP you are either a racist with a racist agenda or just plain stupid!

Stop your lies!!!!! We have a common cause - freedom from oppresion,Babbar Khalsa and other Jathe had traning camps within Pakistan,are you going to say they were scared as well???So what if India gets divided I don;t care ,thats our aim,Pakistan would never attack Khalistan due to the good historical relations between east Panjab and west Panjab,ie: Sikh Muslims in Panjab=Panjabis SIKH MUSLIM CONFERENCE LAST MONTH IN PANJAB They only want brotherhood to get at our sisiters u mug. You lot are seriously loosing the plot. Vocally siding and agreeing with the BNP in order to get your propaganda across is plain stupid and will not win you any legitimate support.

Are you talking about organ donation or bone marrow? As in the kes would need to be shaved in order to remove the organ or bone marrow, is that the situation you are talking about?

LOL. We all know Muslims are now the main target of BNP racism and it looks like some of these Sikh "awareness" groups want piece of the action. The British National Party are a hardline fascist group. The BNP see racism against Muslims as a vote winner. Muslims are an easy target for fascists. This is why the BNP singles them out for abuse. Under British law, Muslims do not exist as an ethnic group, and so technically cannot be the victims of discrimination. In other words, the BNP can goad Muslims and get away with it. This is why the BNP was campaigning against Muslims even before 9/11. By getting support from Muslim haters in other ethnic groups, the BNP are fostering more division and race hate. These Sikh and Hindu BNP supporters represent only a handful of fanatics. They speak for noone but themselves. The BNP claim that it is not Asians but only Muslims they have a problem with. This is not true. ‘Muslim’ is often used as a codeword for ‘Asian’ precisely because of gaps in the law. All ethnic groups exist as a target for the BNP. Racism is at the very heart of the British National Party. It is racism that separates it from any other political party. And it is racism that attracts many of its members. Griffin’s BNP may hate Islamic fundamentalists now. But this has not always been the case. After his faction took control of the NF, they began to make some strange alliances. They met with representatives of Colonel Gaddafi’s regime through the Libyan People’s Bureau in London, and expressed support for Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini. Griffin and other NF leaders are known to have taken an all-expenses paid trip to Libya during the late 80s, as guests of the Gaddafi regime to obtain funding. National Front News wrote at the time: “Common interest must be turned into practical cooperation. Those involved must work to nail the media lies which are used by our enemies to try and divide us and make us afraid to be seen standing side by side with Third Way nations such as Libya and Iran”. Ironic that Griffin once allied himself so closely with Muslim countries that he now condemns as terrorist states. But political gymnastics have been constant throughout Griffin’s life. His bizarre ideologies have changed like the wind.

There are clear double standards within our community and leadership when it comes to preferences on dehadhari groups and their leaders. There is a sudden large issue made about Darshan Das’s son attending a Hindu centre by Sikh councillors and Gurdwara prabhandaks but these people play politically correct with the Naamdhari parchaar and propaganda. The majority of people claim to be offended by the actions of Ram Rahim because it is high profile but those people are relaxed by open literature that there is a live human lineage of Guru’s linking back to Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj or claims that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj lived on this earth for 203 years, most of which was in hiding as a “Baba Ajaipal Singh”. In some areas in the UK we even included the Namdhari Gurdwara as part of the local Council of Sikh Gurdwaras. If that's not going to confuse the Sikh community I don't know what is. Has anyone read the "fabrications" section of the above website? Please see the views on women and amrit, Guru Gobind Singh Ji not taking Amrit, Anand Karaj being an invention, Guru Granth/Guru Panth and of course "Guru" Ram Singh. Most of the Namdhari parchaar appears to revolve around the idea of a great "conspiracy" by the British and Singh Sabha Movement to hide the existance of them.

The Chaudry's back again!! Someone told me he is passing himself of as Sikh minister in the HMS prison service. Anyone able to verify that?

This topic needs BUMPing.

Fair comments. Speaking for myself, I am not questioning the sanctity of Sri Akal Takht Sahib. However, I am questioning a document on Akal Takht headed paper being presented to the Sangat as a Hukumnana when we know there is a protocol to contents of the text and presentation of an official Hukumnama. Some Singhs in Amritsar are unaware of such a Hukumnama being released which specifies a Sikh is accepted through the adoption if Singh and Kaur in their names which needs to be proved with official documentation. This not only puts illiterate Sikhs from rural Punjab in a situation but also opens up a loophole of claiming an allegiance to Sikhism by simply changing ones name by deed poll. This exercise is not as painstaking as one thinks and as mentioned above an express service is available, where there is no limit to the amount of times an individual can change his/her name in the UK. We can end up with another manipulation of the Singh/Kaur name through people adopting them for the sake of getting married.