dehra's

[sissy]

'Maaf Karnaa but how has a group of naked roaming saadhus, who shave their heads and smear ash over their bodies (ie. Udaasi) helped Sikhi's existence???'

sher phaji, i have been to a dera run by udaasi's who do not roam, let alone roam naked and do not shave their heads and smear ash over their bodies.....

the person kinda responsible for the dera has always had uncut hair, wears a pug etc....he doesn't wear a kara or kirpan and wasn't allowed to marry so yes they do consider themselves as a bit separate from the khalsa...he maintains the building where the dera is placed, does aarti and community work (sewa)....what about these udaasi's?

admittedly im still confused about the role of these udaasi's etc in sikhi (if someone can please clarify!!!) but lets not write all udaasi's or ne oter group off as roaming naked shaven-haired people when that is not the case

i don't think understand why some feel the need to be udaas (sad!) and not be allowed to mary etc to worship waheguru....

bhul chuk maph

[sher_panjabi]

Sorry if i have mada a generalisation - if you check out the websites of the Sanatan Sikh people who propagate the idea that Guru Ji divided sikhs into sewa panthis, nirmale, udaasi and nihungs... on their websites most of the pics of the udaasis are with either shaven heads or dreadlocks - and they have ash smeared on them.

Also from personal experience - the Udaasi which i have come across = shaven heads and some had dread locks - and there "Baba" or people they followed was naked saadhu (udaasi).

the video which paaji kindly gave the link to:

in there one person nicely says:

"Baba Sundar Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale, the 11th head of Damdami Taksal (the Sikh education institution started by Baba Deep Singh with the blessings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji) was asked by people how can we ensure the Sikh Panth remains strong and in chardikala?

Baba Ji replied: Everyone should unite and have one main institution where young children should come at a young age. THe first thing they should do is wear all Panj Kakkaar (follow Rehat), take amrit, then learn Nitnem, then learn about Gurmat followed by learning about non-Sikh religions and practices... then these people will be ready to do parchaar and they will never fall down with their Sikhi..."

I totally agree!

However question:

Do Nirmale, Udaasi and Sewa-panthi believe Amrit is necessary? Is it only compulsary for Nihung Singhs? (as preached by Sanatan people)

The video is good - if we accept what Baba Sundar Singh Ji says then Udaasi, Nirmal, Sewa-panthi as well as Nihungs should all take Amrit (compulsary), wear Panj Kakaar and all be educated with knowledge of Baani and Gurmat.

[Guest Akaal108]

Whole discussion on udasi is very complex.. I don't know much about them either but i can direct you to few links:

here are some of them:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...highlight=udasi

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...highlight=udasi

What the SGPC say Udasis are Sikhs, says SGPC chief

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20021210/main7.htm

Role of Udasi in Sikh panth is to spread Guru Nanak Dev Nirankar and Sahib baba siri chand maharaj name to the all over india especially masses in south india..they are consider missionary..however, they are no where same as christian twisted missionaries..they spread sikhi via translating sikh scriptures in different languages teeka/steeks so normal people can take laha of gurbani because gurbani updesh is Sanjha....they tend to follow- Nanak Naam Chardi-kalah teriae bhanaie sarbat da bhalla.

I do think udasi panth and khalsa panth are different ..different approach, different intiations , different beleifs etc but they are sikhs of sahib baba siri chand maharaj who was a son of siri guroo nanak dev nirankar (and no one can deny that fact).

And please don't reject baba siri chand maharaj by saying he didn't listen to guru nanak dev ji hakum..yes he didn't ..no doubt but in later people ..it's historical proven that sahib baba siri chand maharaj realize his mistake because his ego was broken by guroo ram das upon meeting him.. hee realized it and work towards prema bhakti marg..at the end he was bahut puachaie hoye mahapursh/bhramgyani.

I think we sikhs now days just like sikhs of guru maharaj should respect udasi order and consider them sikhs.

It is a historical fact that all the Gurus loved and respected Baba Siri Chand ji. Guru Amar Das ji gave his eldest son, Baba Mohan ji to serve Baba Siri Chand ji. Guru Hargobind Sahib offered his son, Baba Gurditta, the father of Guru Harkrishan ji (7th Guru) to be Baba Siri Chand ji's devotee and successor. Baba Siri Chand ji gave the name "Amritsar" that is used today to the city that had been called Ramdaspur. And the place where Guru Arjan Dev ji waited daily for his meetings with Baba Siri Chand ji and his resting place are still marked by the historical sites of Thamb Sahib and Manji Sahib at the village of Barath. Babaji also gave water from his baoli (spring) for the Sarovar (sacred pool) at Tarn Taran.

When Guru Arjan Devji recited the first 16 astpadis (stanzas) of his Sukhmani Sahib (Hymns of Peace) for Baba Siri Chand ji, Babaji appreciated them so much that he said there should be more. Guru Arjan Devji then requested Baba Siri Chand to give the opening lines of the 17th astpadi. So Baba Siri Chand, following his father Guru Nanak Dev ji's example, recited "Aad Sach, Jugaad Sach, Hai bhi Sach, Nanak Josi bhi Sach..." True in the beginning, Eternally True, God is True now and will always be True This line appears as given by Babaji in Guru Granth Sahib ji and is recited as bani today

[sher_panjabi]

Please check out:

http://www.panthic.org/news/132/ARTICLE/1158/2005-03-27.html

[GuruManeyoGranth]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

As far as I know, all Nirmaley Sants mentioned above definitely encouraged us to take Amrit, join Khalsa and follow Rehit. I don't know much about SevaPanthis, but whenever I see them on Alpha Punjabi, their leader, Sant Jagmohan Singh SevaPanthi has full Sikhi Saroop with Kirpaan. I don't really know much about the Udasis.

I hope this thread doesn't turn into one of those Sanatan vs Tat Khalsa style bashing debates. Overriding majority of us will agree that the Sanatan stuff pure cr*p. But let us not make them divide us, because the very few Sanatan people out there are doing damage to all the Sikh youth - I'm sure they're just sitting back and laughing. What we should be doing is uniting and tackling the Sanatan parchar head on.

There are various Sansthaavas or Institutions within Sikhi, such as Nirmales, SevaPanthis, Udasis, Nihangs. These all have done parchaar to attach us to Guru Jee. But the Sanatan crew are using this to divide us into groups just like Hindus worship certain Gods, etc., etc.

What we have to remember is that Guru Jee is our only way to realise Waheguroo and we have to follow the Rehit given by Guru Jee. Although these Sansthaas do exist, we must not divide ourselves amongst them. They are only there to teach us about Sikhi and spread the love for Guru Granth Sahib Jee and Guru Khalsa Panth AND that we must unite as a Panth under the leadership of Akal Takhat.

This is what all great spiritual leaders/preachers of recent times of Khalsa have said, whether they be AKJ, Nanaksar, Rara Sahib, Harkhoval, MastuanaWale, Taksali, SadhSangatWale, etc., etc.,. Let's not debate every single difference amongst us - let's concentrate on Gurbani and Simran to inpire us towards Sikhi and improving our spirituality.

I'm getting sick and tired of the same old debates - let's not bring them up all the time. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this - it's bringing down the quality of the forum.

Bhulan Chufan Maaf Karo, Chardikala Reho :nihungsmile:

Waheguroo