Non- Amritdharis Distrubting Langar And Parshad

[tarunjeet singh]

<<<Since when did Bhai Nand Lal ji become your/our guru? >>>

Bhai Nand lal is not my Guru, obviously you don't knowwhat a rehitnama is , a rehitnamay where the code of conducts that where dictated by the Guru's at certian tiems through out our history, so the above what have been said by Guru ji and noted by Bhai Nand lal

ms514 made a good point. Where does Langar come into the quote?>>

The word parshad does refer to langar aswell as degh

[Pheena]

<<<Since when did Bhai Nand Lal ji become your/our guru? >>>

Bhai Nand lal is not my Guru, obviously you don't knowwhat a rehitnama is , a rehitnamay where the code of conducts that where dictated by the Guru's at certian tiems through out our history, so the above what have been said by Guru ji and noted by Bhai Nand lal

You are right veer, i don't know much abuot rehitnamas.

How certain are you that this Hukamnama was dictated by our Guru? Is this just an assumption? Are you going on faith or is there a historical refrence to this?

I can certainly believe that some of the Rehitnamas were indeed verbally handed down, but are we to take this for granted that ALL Rehitnamas are from our Gurus and if they indeed were from our Guru then why is the credit given to Bhai Nand Lal ji or other Rehit writers? Certainly if the writer indeed was writing something spoken by one of our Guru the credit should be duely given to the Guru not to Bhai Nand Lal ji.

[Guest A Singh.]

"Pheena" Bhai Sahib Ji, I wholeheartedly agree with your statement that not all Rehatnamae are neccesarily reliable. Rehatnamae in all cases tend to be a product of their time, ie. a reflection of the Rehat followed by Gursikhs at the particular period when written.

Were I point out a particular Rehatnama as more reliable or trustworthy than others, I would no doubt select Bhai Nand Lal Ji's Tanakhahnama Rehatnama (which is what Bhai Tarunjeet Singh Ji has referred to).

Tanakhahnama itself actually takes the form of a discourse between Bhai Nand Lal and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. This particular Rehatnama is the oldest Khalsa Rehatnama available; one particular manuscript still remaining today dating only 10 years after the passing away of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj.

[Pheena]

thanks for that wondeful reply veer, i've got a simple question, what is the difference between a Tanakhahnama and a Rehitnama?

[Guest A Singh.]

"Tanakhahnama" is the name of the actual text written by Bhai Nand Lal, in the same way another text is called Sakhi Rehat Ki, and another Prashanuttar. These are the three Rehatnameh attributed to Bhai Nand Lal.

You may be interested to know that the aforemented Tanakhahnama, was actually referred to as Nasihatnama in early texts.

A Rehatnama is simply the more general term for what I would define as, a documentation of the code of conduct followed by Sikhs, at the particular time of writing.

Tanakhahnama is such a widely quoted Rehatnama, despite being relatively short, because it is so very old, and in terms of content actually sits relatively well with the "modern" Sikh rehat.

[Pheena]

interesting post veer. What i also find interesting is that you mention in your posts that Rehitnamas written and followed at the particular time of writing. It is certain to me that laws or codes of conduct cannot completly withstand the force of time and the ever evolving Society and its way of living unless one creates a barrier from the social changes around them. Which i might say is not impossible to do, but very difficult to maintain nonetheless.

Let us take this Rehitnama for example. Which for the time being we will translate Parsaad to Degh as well as Langar. Let us also exclude the Gurudwaras mentioned above that do follow this rehit, instead will focus on the everyday Gurudwaras where on average 70% plus of the Sangat are Monay/Non-Amritdhari.

Like many have already posted that enforcing such a Rehitnama would not be a wise decision considering the amount of Monays and non-Amritdharis who perform Seva in distributing Langar. Let us also assume that we agree that such Implementation of Rehit can he harmful than helpful to those who are walking on this path. So then Should we be more wise in implementing Rehit which thru the test of time are no longer applicable. Or is there such a thing as a rehit not being applicable. Are we to bend the force of Social Change and take a Stand to enforce such Rehits which can creates a division within the Pangat and push other away rather than invite them?

Would you consider it to be wise to not jump at every Rehitnama and try to make it fit into the present time? Should we look at the current state of our religion and the ever changing surrounding environment before we try to implement a Rehit which can create more divisions rather than trying to ordain discipline. Taking into consideration of the Guru Granth Sahib, which speaks nothing of discrimination among who do seva, isntead it enforces equality in seva. Forgive me for what i am about to say but To me and my ignorance such a Rehit runs parallel to the Shudra and Brahmin which enfoces such laws of only the Brahmin can perform Sevas. Which i might add is exactly what the Gurus fought against is it not?

Forgive me if i have offended you in my efforts to understand Rehits.

[Sikh_Kuri]

So does it say in the Rehitnama that a non Amrit Dhari can't serve Langar?

[Guest A Singh.]

"Pheena" Bhai Sahib, I will just pose these questions to you, and hopefully following them you may fall onto my train of thought:

What is an Amrit Sanchar?

Does "Amrit" consist of only "sugar" and "water"?

Can the Panj Pyare who perform the Seva in the Amrit Sanchar, be non-Rehatdhari (read: not highly disciplined Gursikhs)?

If not, what makes the process in which Amrit is prepared so, that only highly disciplined and spiritually advanced Gursikhs can participate?

Is the institution of Langar simply just an "open kitchen" and is Degh simply a mixture of a number of ingredients given to the Sangat? Could Langar simply be food brought from a restaurant and placed in the Langar hall?

If not, what process goes on during the preparation of Langar/Degh which seperates it from normal "food"?

If the process for Amrit and the process for Parshad follows the same principle, is it not completely logical that only those highly disciplined Gursikhs should be involved in their preparation, never mind just "Amritdharis"?

I personally, initially was not aware of why only highly disciplined Gursikhs should be given responsibility for Langar; it was only after an explanation similar to this, that I understood. I hope this has helped you understand also.

Removal of all non-Rehatdharis from Langar kitchens in the west would most definately alienate many Sikhs who are learning about Sikhism, because this particular situation has become the status quo.

Were changes to be made slowly and all educated on the reasons behind the restoration of Maryada, I would not see such a problem.

[SSM]

I agree that perhaps langar or at least parshad needs to be given by amritdharis.

but i got a problem with stopping non amritdharis in the langar hall.

ok its clearly written perhaps but i got an issue with the amritdharis doing sewa at my gurdwara.

the monas come, do sewa, leave.

some amritdharis come, throw around a wooden chamcha and then after a good fight leave.

amritdhari auntijis use that time to make the dough and gossip.

monas come, are really careful they dont disrespect anything and go home after hard work sewa.

Perhaps it would be easier to explain to non amritdharis that they cant do sewa if the amritdharis were worth trusting in the kitchen.

Makes it harder also cos there sometimes aint enough sangat to do sewa so the monas it is.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

[Pheena]

"Pheena" Bhai Sahib, I will just pose these questions to you, and hopefully following them you may fall onto my train of thought:

What is an Amrit Sanchar?

Does "Amrit" consist of only "sugar" and "water"?

Can the Panj Pyare who perform the Seva in the Amrit Sanchar, be non-Rehatdhari (read: not highly disciplined Gursikhs)?

If not, what makes the process in which Amrit is prepared so, that only highly disciplined and spiritually advanced Gursikhs can participate?

Is the institution of Langar simply just an "open kitchen" and is Degh simply a mixture of a number of ingredients given to the Sangat? Could Langar simply be food brought from a restaurant and placed in the Langar hall?

If not, what process goes on during the preparation of Langar/Degh which seperates it from normal "food"?

If the process for Amrit and the process for Parshad follows the same principle, is it not completely logical that only those highly disciplined Gursikhs should be involved in their preparation, never mind just "Amritdharis"?

I personally, initially was not aware of why only highly disciplined Gursikhs should be given responsibility for Langar; it was only after an explanation similar to this, that I understood. I hope this has helped you understand also.

Removal of all non-Rehatdharis from Langar kitchens in the west would most definately alienate many Sikhs who are learning about Sikhism, because this particular situation has become the status quo.

Were changes to be made slowly and all educated on the reasons behind the restoration of Maryada, I would not see such a problem.

121597[/snapback]

Veer ji, i do understand what you have just said, but perhaps i missed something, are you refering to only Preparing Langar/Degh or is this for Distributing as well.