www.sikh-heritage.co.uk

[Niranjana]

Gur Fateh!

I am amazed to see how easily people get worked up by the presentation of facts. All the site does is present articles of facts from various sources and clearly labels 'Naamdhari Gurus' as a separate entry, i.e. they are not part of the lineage of Gurus for Sikhs as a whole -however, they do form part of our history, albeit somewhat heavily against the maryada of Khalsa Singhs in the modern practice of Naamdharis.

[For the record, I am nothing to do with this site and my personal views do not coincide with that of the site moderator, however, as far as presentation of facts is concerned, it is 'reasonably' valid]

For a honest fairly decent account of 'Baba' Ram Singh, I would recommend reading Fateh Singh Bajwa's 'The Kuka Movement' which whilst accouting for the social and political reforms that Ram Singh sought to bring about also gives account of their origins.

[Please note: I am NOT a Naamdhari nor a member of any Jatha, Dal, or orginisation -Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is my one and only Guru]

The articles quoted are taken from sikh historical sources such as the Sau Saakhi and Gynai Gian Singh's works -personally I look at them as the views and thougths of people at the time....nothing more, nothing less...these are 'historical' accounts (albeit some may have been tampered with during the course of history, but eh, that's history in itself!)

It's the same as looking at the Bhai Chaupa Singh Rehitnama, Bhai Daya Singh Rehitnama and the Suraj Prakash Granth -all sources of modern day rehitnamas (be they issued by the SGPC, AKJ or Damdami Taksal) however al

l these sources also mention the role of the Devi (Kalka, Chandi etc) during the amrit ceremony, make mention of caste ('brahmin' sikh -see Bhai Chaupa Singh) and various other notions -which were prevalent at that time amongst the Sikh masses...this has to be understood, it is not a reflection of Sikhi, but of the cultural period and influences in vogue during those times...rather like saying in 100 years time, one may comment that Singhs in Toronto and London wear small turbans, although occasionally a baseball cap over their topknots of uncut hair and have trimmed beards -these are all actions agianst our Maryada and Rehit, but, they are true of what is and has been happening...

...I simply feel it is important for Sikhs to keep ahold of what 'really' did go on in our history, even if goes against the Rehits and Maryada (in which instance, try and understand why it did so) -otherwise, we allow external forces (such as the RSS, VHP et al) to manipulate their sources for their own crooked ends...

...this is what has been happening with the recent Dasam Granth issue, as the SGPC as seen fit to ban discussion, i.e. place a question mark on the issue themselves, not to mention the lack of certain bani's from the copies of the Dasam Granth that they print, generally the Sikh populace has a lack of understanding abuot these writings and hence along come RSS twist and contort their meanings and we have serious problems...

...forgive any foolish comments in the foregoing...

-I remain the Charandoor of the Sadh Sangat-

[jagjit_waheguru]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Pyare jio, a few years ago, I had a book which was the life story of Baba Ram singh ji Namdahree. It was a fantastic book. Unfortunately a Gursikh borrowed it from me, and typically I never saw him, and that book again. So forgive me for not giving you an ISBN number.

In the back of this book it had copies of Baba Ram Singh ji letters from jail where he was exiled. In his letters he clearly states that the calls for making him a Guru is completely wrong. He wanted the namdarees to be Panthik as he was. It was the British that co-erced its remaining leadership to become a Gurudoom sect. The majority of the proper namdarees was shaheed or exiled.

It is a great shame that a fantastic gursikh like Baba Ram Singh jis name is associated with the modern government sponsored Guru doom sect.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Niranjana]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Pyare jio, a few years ago, I had a book which was the life story of Baba Ram singh ji Namdahree. It was a fantastic book. Unfortunately a Gursikh borrowed it from me, and typically I never saw him, and that book again. So forgive me for not giving you an ISBN number.

In the back of this book it had copies of Baba Ram Singh ji letters from jail where he was exiled. In his letters he clearly states that the calls for making him a Guru is completely wrong. He wanted the namdarees to be Panthik as he was. It was the British that co-erced its remaining leadership to become a Gurudoom sect. The majority of the proper namdarees was shaheed or exiled.

It is a great shame that a fantastic gursikh like Baba Ram Singh jis name is associated with the modern government sponsored Guru doom sect.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Gur Fateh!

Jagjit Jeeo, I agree with you, I've read Fauja Singh Bajwa's accounts of the Kuka Movement and certainly Baba Ram Singh Ji is a great Sikh and Khalsa Warrior in every sense...the Kuka Namdharis of his time were too great Sikhs and did much to revive and preserve the Khalsa Marg, but sadly,as you say it is a shame that they've sucumbed to being a pacifistic congress group in

the last century...

...that said, if one looks at the Kuka movement and the Namdharis, there is a wealth of puratan Maryada perserved in their annals such as, Gurmat Sangeet Maryada, the observance of full Puratan Nitnem including all Banis from the the Sri Guru and the Dasam Granth in amongst other factors...

...it really is a shame that they've moved out of the Panth in the way they have, Baba Ram Singh was a true Gursikh by all accounts and in the Namdharis of his era we can find an amazing synthesis of Nihangta (from Baba Ram Singh himself), Nirmala and Udasi (from Baba Balak Singh) maryadas...interesting, it was Baba Ram Singh who organised Akhand Paths of the Sri Guru AND Dasam Granth and now today we have Namdharis who deny the position of the Granth Sahib as the Sri Guru!!!

Forgive any harsh words...

SAT SRI AKAAAAAL!!!!