I Am Willing To Be Khalistani.

[jagjit_waheguru]

Waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Pyare jio, I have started a poll thread.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?act=ST&f=14&t=15473&st=

I have no interest in getting involved in a conversation that leads in an exchange of vikaars, that is un-befitting of any Gursikh. The problem when debating with veer namstang, is that he says alot but cannot back anything up with facts.

Admin - Apologies for going off-subject, but the whole agenda of Nirmaals, uddasis is linked to the agenda behind defamation of khalistanis/shaheeds. I am sure you realise that. I do humbly ask you to consider between your team, to insist on facts when people make accusation. Especially when you have subjects like Shaheeds, these are very serious, and not something that should be taken lightly. If any of you have darshan of a Shaheed Singhs, then you will know what I mean.

Veer ji, makes numerous allegations, and I am quite happy to debate. I am also happy to debate issues with sampardayas, and even his long standing prejudice with Panthic groups like akj and the issues around it.

But do it with sincerity and facts. There is little point in having a debate, if you will only end up making snide remarks, or exchanging in Vikkars. I have no interest in doing that, because what kind of Gursikhs are we if we do. Everyday I analyse my actions in terms of vikaars, and the last place i expect to have them them, such as traits of frustration, tinged with slight anger, is in sangat. To maintain sehaj at all times, is so important for every Gursikh.

So the issue of Shaheeds, I leave to the sangat in the poll. If veer namstang wishs to honestly debate any of his predjudices or beliefs in sampradaya, and it willing to do it with facts and sincerity, then he is most welcome.

Also veer ji, on the poll, I have presented my viewpoint, please fell welcome to present yours aswell.

waheguru j kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

[jagjit_waheguru]

Waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Pyare jio, Just a quick response to your question, before I have to get back to doing some work.

Guru kian Sakkian are very important for sikhs to understand. Many of us the next generation, have more knowledge on modern Gursikhs like Sant jarnial singh, Bhai sahib randhir Singh, baba nand Singh, and others than we have about our Gurus. This is a worrying trend. Also not only should we know about Guru kian Sakian, but we have to dig into them and understand the deeper meaning.

We have to understand what really happened to the Guru Sahibaan. The policies they adopted, and the policies that were adopted against them. So go beyond the wonderful stories that we hear all the time. But also question why?

Why was Sahib Siri Guru Tegh Bhadhur ji refused access to Darbar Sahib?

Why was he shot in the eye?

Why then throughout his life did he never return to Amritsar?

Why was Sahib Siri Guru Gobind Singh born at Patna Sahib and not darbar Sahib?

Why did Sahib Siri Guru Nanak dev ji reject Siri Chand for Bhai lehna?

Why did sahib Siri Guru Angad dev ji accept Sahib Guru Amar das ji and not Datu?

Why was Sahib Siri Guru Amar Das ji kicked?

When sahib Siri Guru Nanak dev ji created a begumpura, why did they not last?

Who helped Prithvi Chand against Sahib Siri Guru Arjan dev ji?

Why when sahib Siri Arjan dev Ji dictated the sahib Siri Guru Granth sahib ji, was it not given to Sahib Siri Guru Gobind Singh, and instead he had to dictate it again?

Who conspired with the Mughuls to have wars with Sahib Siri Guru HarGobind Sahib ji?

What was happening to all the Sikh literature during these times?

What was happening to the Sikh institutions at these times?

Who was controlling Nanakana Sahib, and other sikh institutions while all these things were happening to Our Gurus?

Why did sahib Siri Guru Gobind Singh ji go to Machiwaara and not to Amritsar, Nanakana sahib, etc?

All these forces that opposed Guru Sahibaan due to not been given Guru ships and various times, how did they all come together and control sikh institutions and push our Gurus to new places?

Who was benefitting froms the money, power and gifts sent from far off sikhs to these Sikh Gurdwaras? Why were they not given to the Gurus?

Why is it that the tat Khalsa throughout Guru ki History were being shaheeds, but where were those who now claim to be decsendants?

How did we get to a situation at baba Bakala where there 22+ people claiming to be the next Guru? Who were they and where did they come from?

There are so many things in just this part of history that we need to think about. Even before we go on to later history. Just because people say, we are this descendancy or that, we accept, without looking did Guru ji accept them? Fundamentally that in itself is such a huge question? What was there role? Are they following Guru ke Hukam, and Bani, or just using connection to live of Sikh institutions, history, with very dubious roles at the times of Guru ji and after.

These things are rarely discussed, because you have to think deeper, and research harder. It is very easy to just say, he lived at the Time of the Gurus, so he is part of the Panth, and can use his link to live of sikhs, no matter if he follows Gurbani or Guru ke rehit. Are we going to accept the descendants of Gangu Brahmin? he also lived at the times of the Gurus, and has descendants today aswell.

The Guru house is always open and welcoming, but Guru ji himself put Assols in place, that we as Sikh live by. I would ask Sikhs to really read carefully Guru Kian Saakian, and learn from them and understand exacly what happened to the Gurus, and the message of the Bhana.

Recently a talk was done at Khalsa talks in Birmingham by Dr Dapinder Singh called Internal and external threats to The Gurus during their time. It was very good, and fully backed up with facts. It was recorded and hopefuly will be on the net soon.

But I humbly do a benti to all Sikhs. Think about what is happening. Our Guru Sahibaan were not blind. So we as Sikhs cannot be blind and follow blindly. Understand what happened to our Gurus, because them forces still exist today. Akaal gave us every lesson in Guru Kian sakkian and the gift of Gurbani. All the answers are in there. We really need to study and learn. It is vitally important especially today. Read what our Gurus wrote and what they did.

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Well said JSS Jee!!! Agree completely with everything you said.

Just a question I wanted to raise regarding the Mahants - I always thought that the Mahants were Udassis, and not Nirmallas? Is there are any source to say that that the Mahants included Nirmallas as well?

If there were Nirmallas that were Mahants, then obviously they did bad things. No-one will justify their actions. BUT that does not mean that all Nirmallas were bad. Some Nirmallas made great contributions to the Panth, and carried out vast Amrit Sanchaar smaagams. It would be wrong of us to paint everyone with the same brush.

Similarly, if someone calling himself a Taksali or Babbar committed an atrocity in the post-84 period on innocents, then that does not mean all Taksalis or Babbars were bad ... cos a true Saint-Soldier does not carry out such acts.

It's not simply a black or white issue, where a whole Jatha or Group can be labelled as bad or anti-Panthic.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguroo

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[N30S1NGH]

Despite lot of propaganda spew against Nihangs, Damdami Taksal, Seva Panthis, Nirmale, Udasis by amritsar singh sabha and akj's in their literature. These sampardha's will always stay whether others like or not. Yes bad apples exist in all jatha's and sampardha's but that's being own short coming , main ideologies of these sampardha have only one aim is to Glorify panth of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Guru's have blessed them, he can only destroy them in the will of God. Bhai Sahibs, Gyanis, Profs, self proclaim scholars wanna be etc have no power to cause even iota of damage. Spit on the moon, spit will come on your face.

Also on a side note: Defination of Mahant- is care taker of dharamsala or dera. Mahant word meanings itself has no negative elements to it. Yes there are real mahants and fake mahants/pseduo just how there are fake/pseudo bhai sahibs, profs, sant, bhramgyanis.

Thanks for contributing to the orginal thread. I had only intention in my mind when i started this thread which is to see how well khalistanis on here can answer simple questions.. so far best reply was gupt dasan dass post.

Once again here are the rules of dharam yudh written by sri guru gobind singh ji:

Here are some rules to remember and regulated by guroo gobind singh maharaj during dharam yudh translated by Manmeet Singh.

Literally, it means waging a war of righteousness or securing freedom and justice. Guru Hargobind Ji raised an army to fight against Mughal and Hindu oppression and injustice. Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji amplified the Sikh concept of Dharam Yudh as under:

1. War to be waged should be without aggression or feeling of emnity and revenge.

2. Before war is begun, all peaceful means of dialiogue, arbitration and negotiation should have been tried but without any success.

3. The soldiers should be volunteers devoted to the cause.

4. The defeated enemy should be treated with consideration and compassion. No women or children be captured or maltreated.

5. That minimum force be used for subduing the enemy and as a last resort.

6. No territory is to be annexed, no looting or wilful bloodshed is permitted. The army for Dharam-Yudh must observe these conditions, for they have to set an example as Saint-Soldiers.

This was written by Guru Ji himself for all Singhs to emulate. I personally believe that these rules also serve as an excellent guide for life. Think about them along these:

1. Have no hatred towards anyone

2. Try to be reasonable and understanding, but let anyone walk over you!

3. Be devoted to your Guru and always aim to serve your Guru

4. Recognise everything you see around you as that of Vahiguru, love everything. Even people who maltreat you should be treated with Love, to show that whatever they do or say, the only thing that really matters in this world is Vahiguru.

5. Never try to be over-zealous and make sure that what you are doing is for the benefit of YOU and your Guru and that you DO NOT hurt the people who surround you when you are trying to achieve your goals.

6. Do not hurt anyone (physically or mentally) and do not take or receive anything that does not belong to you.

Reference: Some of these teachings come from Guru Gobind SIngh's Charitropakhyan

Admin may close this topic. If he wishes too.

Topic Closed - We support Sikhi 100%. We do not support any jatha, samparda or group that goes against the principles of Sikhi and carries anti-Sikhi elements.