Sangat

[Ray_Of_Light]

Fateh Ji!

I have an issue that i would like some views and opinions on. I hope what i type will not upset or offend anyone. This post is just related to my personal feelings, as i am not pointing the finger at anyone.

Firstly, I am not an amritdhari but i do go gurudwara, do kirtan, read gurbani etc. Yet i have found that the 'sangat' i used to associate with, have drifted away and do not talk with me. This is due to the reason that i am not 'chardi-kala'. I am not asking for the sympathy vote just an insight and opinion of other Gursikhs.

Is this correct?

Are amritdhari's only allowed to associate with other amritdhari's and non-gursikhs? It hurts me alot, to know that the Guru's sikhs can not even reply back to a greeting (Fateh). Fair enough i am not a Gursikh, but does it make it right to blank another fellow sikh because they look down upon them? I thought that no matter the caste, creed or religion, the Guru's sikhs would always reply back and not differentiate between, being 'chardi-kala' or not.

Secondly, this brings me to another point i would like to ask; what makes you chardi-kala? Does being an amritdhari/Gursikh give you the status or title of being chardi-kala? So does this means that Gursikhs will seclude and seperate themselves from non-gursikhs, since sangat is not good enough for them?

Finally, i am not saying that all Gursikhs are the same. These are based upon my personal experiences. I am sorry, for any offence that i may have caused to anyone; i have just posted what i feel. Bhul chuk maaf, vaheguru rakha.

Fateh Ji!

[Saahiba]

Fateh Ji!

I have an issue that i would like some views and opinions on. I hope what i type will not upset or offend anyone. This post is just related to my personal feelings, as i am not pointing the finger at anyone.

Firstly, I am not an amritdhari but i do go gurudwara, do kirtan, read gurbani etc. Yet i have found that the 'sangat' i used to associate with, have drifted away and do not talk with me. This is due to the reason that i am not 'chardi-kala'. I am not asking for the sympathy vote just an insight and opinion of other Gursikhs.

Is this correct?

Are amritdhari's only allowed to associate with other amritdhari's and non-gursikhs? It hurts me alot, to know that the Guru's sikhs can not even reply back to a greeting (Fateh). Fair enough i am not a Gursikh, but does it make it right to blank another fellow sikh because they look down upon them? I thought that no matter the caste, creed or religion, the Guru's sikhs would always reply back and not differentiate between, being 'chardi-kala' or not.

Secondly, this brings me to another point i would like to ask; what makes you chardi-kala? Does being an amritdhari/Gursikh give you the status or title of being chardi-kala? So does this means that Gursikhs will seclude and seperate themselves from non-gursikhs, since sangat is not good enough for them?

Finally, i am not saying that all Gursikhs are the same. These are based upon my personal experiences. I am sorry, for any offence that i may have caused to anyone; i have just posted what i feel. Bhul chuk maaf, vaheguru rakha.

Fateh Ji!

Gurfatehji,

Paaji / Penji.. please remain a good sikh and that is what matters... if people do not talk to you... keep your cool and ignore them..

Bhul chuk maaf karni ji!

[KKV]

Well as far as i've been taught...Gursikh's are supposed to still respect other Sangat, but i dont know why there like that with you - bad Sangat is classed as those who are under the bhaar of the Panj Chor (Kam (Lust), Krodh(Anger), Lohb (Greed), Moh (Attachment) , and Ahankar (Ego) ) - if Gursikh's start hanging around wiv that sorta Sangat course their goin be goin off their own path....but i think this Shabad below is what EVERYONE - whether we Gursikh or not - should understand!!!

This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in So Dar on Pannaa 10

rwgu gUjrI mhlw 5 ]

raag goojaree mehalaa 5 ||

Raag Goojaree, Fifth Mehla:

kwhy ry mn icqvih audmu jw Awhir hir jIau pirAw ]

kaahae rae man chithavehi oudham jaa aahar har jeeo pariaa ||

Why, O mind, do you plot and plan, when the Dear Lord Himself provides for your care?

sYl pQr mih jMq aupwey qw kw irjku AwgY kir DirAw ]1]

sail pathhar mehi ja(n)th oupaaeae thaa kaa rijak aagai kar dhhariaa ||1||

From rocks and stones He created living beings; He places their nourishment before them. ||1||

myry mwDau jI sqsMgiq imly su qirAw ]

maerae maadhho jee sathasa(n)gath milae s thariaa ||

O my Dear Lord of souls, one who joins the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, is saved.

gur prswid prm pdu pwieAw sUky kwst hirAw ]1] rhwau ]

gur parasaadh param padh paaeiaa sookae kaasatt hariaa ||1|| rehaao ||

By Guru's Grace, the supreme status is obtained, and the dry wood blossoms forth again in lush greenery. ||1||Pause||

jnin ipqw lok suq binqw koie n iks kI DirAw ]

janan pithaa lok suth banithaa koe n kis kee dhhariaa ||

Mothers, fathers, friends, children and spouses-no one is the support of anyone else.

isir isir irjku sMbwhy Twkuru kwhy mn Bau kirAw ]2]

sir sir rijak sa(n)baahae t(h)aakur kaahae man bho kariaa ||2||

For each and every person, our Lord and Master provides sustenance. Why are you so afraid, O mind? ||2||

aUfy aUif AwvY sY kosw iqsu pwCY bcry CirAw ]

ooddae oodd aavai sai kosaa this paashhai bacharae shhariaa ||

The flamingoes fly hundreds of miles, leaving their young ones behind.

iqn kvxu KlwvY kvxu cugwvY mn mih ismrnu kirAw ]3]

thin kavan khalaavai kavan chugaavai man mehi simaran kariaa ||3||

Who feeds them, and who teaches them to feed themselves? Have you ever thought of this in your mind? ||3||

siB inDwn ds Ast isDwn Twkur kr ql DirAw ]

sabh nidhhaan dhas asatt sidhhaan t(h)aakur kar thal dhhariaa ||

All the nine treasures, and the eighteen supernatural powers are held by our Lord and Master in the Palm of His Hand.

jn nwnk bil bil sd bil jweIAY qyrw AMqu n pwrwvirAw ]4]5]

jan naanak bal bal sadh bal jaaeeai thaeraa a(n)th n paaraavariaa ||4||5||

Servant Nanak is devoted, dedicated, forever a sacrifice to You, Lord. Your Expanse has no limit, no boundary. ||4||5||

i aint Amritdhari either so scuse my comments - if they arent right - but i doubt we'd be able to get anywher wiv Guruji' if we dont have pyaar for apan'ee Sangat - also i duno which Bhai Saahb was doin Katha but he was sayin how whenever someone does nindiya of u, we get closer to Guruji!!!

[Saahiba]

Gurfateh ji,

If we read Gurbani, we are reminded, time and again, that we are required to be good sikhs. Now this concept is taken by sangat differently.

- Some think that being fanatics makes for good sikhs

- Some think that nothing short of amritdhari can be a good sikh

Now.. now.. we must remember that our guru (gurugranth sahib) and our human gurus, all taught us to be good human beings to begin with. Discrimination is not our job. Let us leave that to the Lord to decide who is good or bad. Since NONE of us is perfect, therefore, we have no right to point fingers at others or look down upon any one. Lord and Guru are the judges. Let us not be judgemental.

If, some one still tends to discriminate, let us understand that this person has not understood SIKHI well enough and forgive him / her.

Bhul chuk maaf karni ji!

[Sarbloh]

A response to a Fateh, might be something small for someone, but it could be someone’s make or break for that day. It could be that persons cry for help for that day and you could have helped alleviate some of his/her pain by responding to their Fateh.

As Gursikhs we have an essential role to play in the elimination of stigma and discrimination. We are rich with teachings that express the fundamental dignity of every human being, that call for compassion and we are obliged to respect all, particularly the most vulnerable in the society. As Gursikhs we have a responsibility to be part of a vision of hope, without realising we carry particular respect and may even have influence within someone’s life.

[Saahiba]

A response to a Fateh, might be something small for someone, but it could be someone’s make or break for that day. It could be that persons cry for help for that day and you could have helped alleviate some of his/her pain by responding to their Fateh.

As Gursikhs we have an essential role to play in the elimination of stigma and discrimination. We are rich with teachings that express the fundamental dignity of every human being, that call for compassion and we are obliged to respect all, particularly the most vulnerable in the society. As Gursikhs we have a responsibility to be part of a vision of hope, without realising we carry particular respect and may even have influence within someone’s life.

Sarab.. a wonderful post by you! I dont understand y we dont follow these teachings.. y do we waste our energies in being judgemental and hurt others?

[Guest Papi]

i see this all the time and its sad really. i mean who am i to judge who is chardikala and who is not. as someone else put it

old sikhi:

kbIr sB qy hm bury hm qij Blo sBu koie ]

kabeer sabh thae ham burae ham thaj bhalo sabh koe ||

Kabeer, I am the worst of all. Everyone else is good.

ijin AYsw kir bUiJAw mIqu hmwrw soie ]7]

jin aisaa kar boojhiaa meeth hamaaraa soe ||7||

Whoever understands this is a friend of mine. ||7||

("youth") sikhi these days:

o he/she wears bana so they must be chardikala. :sady: he/she doesn't do kirtan, doesn't come to kirtan programs so they are not chardikala !!!!!!!! i hope someone realizes how stupid the above two sound. i am not making these up, i've heard these.

to the original poster, you are better off staying away from such shallow people make guruji your friend

[KKV]

i see this all the time and its sad really. i mean who am i to judge who is chardikala and who is not. as someone else put it

old sikhi:

kbIr sB qy hm bury hm qij Blo sBu koie ]

kabeer sabh thae ham burae ham thaj bhalo sabh koe ||

Kabeer, I am the worst of all. Everyone else is good.

ijin AYsw kir bUiJAw mIqu hmwrw soie ]7]

jin aisaa kar boojhiaa meeth hamaaraa soe ||7||

Whoever understands this is a friend of mine. ||7||

("youth") sikhi these days:

o he/she wears bana so they must be chardikala. :sady: he/she doesn't do kirtan, doesn't come to kirtan programs so they are not chardikala !!!!!!!! i hope someone realizes how stupid the above two sound. i am not making these up, i've heard these.

to the original poster, you are better off staying away from such shallow people make guruji your friend

truuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Ray_Of_Light]

Fateh Ji,

Thank you all for your replies. There is truth in what Sarbloh had said, as a simple reply to Fateh etc can make someone's day or break their heart. You can never know what is on the person's mind, as your simple Fateh could bring comfort to them etc.

Papi, i too have heard certain judgmental comments made just based upon anothers image, even dastaar's! It really is suprising that certain people continue to discriminate others due to their personal choices and opinions. It is an individuals choice as to how they tie their dastaar, but yet people would state that because their dastaars are big and tied higher, they are be chardikala!

So being chardikala means that you wear a bana, tie a big dastaar, wear a big kirpan that is showing? All these things are based upon image. I know Gursikhs wear a Baana, kirpan etc but it is about the purity of their mind. The purity of their heart that determines if their chardikala, and who are we to see or recognise that? It is true, who are we to judge and point the finger to anyone else when we ourselves are tainted with jealousy, greed, lies etc.

I can only do ardaas to Vaheguru, that we shall not say or think such things as they push us further away from Him. Only He is true in this false world, as He will always be there when others will turn their backs. May He forgive us for our mistakes and grant us the knowledge to perfect our faults. Bhul Chuk Maaf. Vaheguru Rakha, Baksh Lehna.

Fateh Ji!

[Rsinghji]

could someone please post the levels of sangat according to gurbani, thank you