Culture Vs Religion

[PAL 07]

serious babbling......it seems your talking about 21 century social problems......all answers are found in only one place SRIGURUGRANTHSAHIBJI.......GuruJi teaches us to have a strong self esteem, a strong personality, a clear conscience......basically practicing sikhi makes you a stronger person in every single way you can imagine.......this in return helps you to conquer living in modern society with all its challenges and hypocrocies. The teachings of GuruJi help you to understand and deal with issues that a aposatate couldn't cope with because he/she hasn't got the knowledge.

[Mehtab Singh]

all answers are found in only one place SRIGURUGRANTHSAHIBJI.......GuruJi teaches us to have a strong self esteem, a strong personality, a clear conscience......basically practicing sikhi makes you a stronger person in every single way you can imagine.......this in return helps you to conquer living in modern society with all its challenges and hypocrocies. The teachings of GuruJi help you to understand and deal with issues that a aposatate couldn't cope with because he/she hasn't got the knowledge.

Thats basially it!

Just to add on some bits...

if religion says one thing, your family says another, general broad society still another, then how do you decide what to do?

Think about it, what lasts the longest among all these? Family doesn't stay around one forever, society changes every now and then. Its religion that stands out as a massive rock, unchangeable. You must have heard the phrase The world remembers only those who swim against the flow, right? So Why fit in when you were born to stand out (another phrase...lol). As PAL07 veerjee said every knowledge is in Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. All of your answers are already there.

It seems a simple question -- but living your life trying to please everyone else, can cause serious problems.

Which is why a Sikh's sole purpose is to please only Gurujee. Again I repeat, the others we tend to or want to please won't be there forever, but Gurujee is eternal.

I was reading somewhere that first generation western born punjabi girls have been persenting characteristics of borderline personality disorders. The result of having fragmented identities - ie - being one way at home, and another way in the real world.

I am guessing this is what gave rise to the well-known term "A.B.C.D" (American Born Confused Desi). This happens when the individual tries to "fit in" with society. Its very hard to years, and its very easy to advice/suggest that you should, but I salute the ones who can do this.

we are taught one thing at home, taught that beauty is not on the surface, taught to focus on other things, taught to enjoy our rotia, and then we are bombarded with images that we can never aspire to, like blonde blue eyed sex objects that we see

Why do one want to look like them? And when you know they are seen as mere sex objects, you already know that that's not you, and not for you either, right? The media of the modern world is a fresh enemy of Sikhs, especially in places like India where it is appropriate that one is clean-shaven, that women do their eyebrows and wear revealing outfits. Don't get carried away or discouraged by these images flashed. Take it as a challenge to stand rock solid and not bow down before the illusions and temptations of Kaljug.

Remember…

ijnI nwmu iDAwieAw gey mskiq Gwil ]

jinee naam dhhiaaeiaa geae masakath ghaal ||

Those who have meditated on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and departed after having worked by the sweat of their brows

nwnk qy muK aujly kyqI CutI nwil ]1]

naanak thae mukh oujalae kaethee shhuttee naal ||1||

-O Nanak, their faces are radiant in the Court of the Lord, and many are saved along with them! ||1||

things that were previously taboo, are now slowly sneaking their way into dominant punjabi culture - for example, things like dating, sex, even displaing some of the superficial characterisitics that we see in western media all around us

Isn't that partially our own weakness and surrender before western society and its norms?

So -- the question now becomes, what do we participate in, what can we now do, because the things that we didn't do before, telling ourselves that we are being 'sikh', or 'punjabi' (and i recognize that you're right, people do confuse the two as being interchangeable, and they shouldn't), are now allowed

You know the answer already, don't you? You fully understand the difference between Sikhi and Punjabiyat, and you also know what is "acceptable" under both headings. So you gotta decide that yourself.

its almost as though the 'rules' you had to obey before, in order to be able to say ' i am punjabi' have now conveniently broadened so that its almost as though anything goes

Which explains how culture and society change but religion stays the same, and we shouldn't be like a soccer ball for people, culture, and society to be kicked around towards whatever they believe or start believing in one fine morning. As Sikhs, we'd rather get our limbs severed joint by joint, have our scalps removed, have ourselves sawn into half and burnt and boiled alive rather than budge a step from what our Shaheeds gave up their lives for. You gotta understand this sister, that Sikhi is really deep. We can't change anything. Culture, society, people change. Gurujee is eternal, and Sikhi is rock solid. How great it would be to attach yourself to something eternal and rock solid as compared to something so trivial and bendable that you can't even be sure if the lipstick color you put on today will become outdated next week!

ANd if anything goes, then really aren't we just painting the broader global culture brown, yet calling it our own? Is there really any place for it anymore? Does culture go beyond just music and food today?

The only culture for us is Sikh culture, and everything within its context is ours.

the so -called liberal sexuality that westerners claim to enjoy, is actually disguised oppression - it always will depend on the sexual values in the eye of the beholder - liberalism allows for women to 'flaunt' - which- yes - encourages a focus on appearance - so that we are essentially grooming ourselves to be just what we are told we are being freed from - an object

How sad and pathetic! Having to look a particular way just to please a bunch of people who probably would change their tastes and mindsets the next time they went to buy a pair of shoes.

People who advocate that the see a lot of eastern cultures as 'oppressive' - are basing that on the fact that the non-flaunting of natural sexuality or appearance, is a form of oppression - but is it really? I've found that arguments can be made for either case

There is an ocean of difference between any "eastern" culture and Sikh culture sister. Sikhi is not oppressive towards even non-Sikhs, forget Sikh women. Lets not have an "umbrella label" for all cultures that began in the east.

[dalsingh101]

As the one who used the phrase "Eastern" you must understand that I was referring to the generalised preconception of many westerners. It is not my own belief that all such systems are under a single umbrella.

[seektruthgal]

So, I just want to say thanks. As I was sitting here reading this, it occurred ot me that something about our dialogue somehow helped me to identify, and answer, an internal conflict that has been plaguing me for a few years now.

It occured to me, that, I feel like I sold myself out. By that I mean, there was a time when I felt so strong in my convictions, whether or not I felt them to be religiously based, or just based on my combining all the things around me into patterns I saw as right or wrong, and then after the crumbling of a first and only relationship, I suddenly found myself not caring anymore, as if a bubble had been burst.

I realize now that what was really bugging me was that I had fallen into a relationship, into many things, but in a way that still allowed me to adhere to my values - there was so much that I didn't do, that we both didn't do - because we had the same values.

Once that ended, for some reason, now, I remember, it through me into this downward spiral where I started to question everythng -I started to drink, I stopped caring about things I used to. I felt somehow as though everything I thought was possible, suddenlyh wasn't, and that, those values that I thought I managed to find a happy medium of, in another person, were also false. I was always very isolated from other punjabi and/or sikh people my age - and when I started to see what the rest of them were like, something inside sort of crumbled, and its funny I didnt remember that moment until today. It was almost as though my values, or the hope I had that I coudl somewhoe live a life where my values and those of the world around me matched, died too. I cant really think of any other way to explain it.

Now that it;s been a few years, and I guess I'm at that age where you start to want to think ahead, I feel so weighted down by all the things that have happened to me since. I feel like a dumb girl who didn't know any better, and now I've seen so many things that don't match what I thought the world was, that I dont know how to go back. Its like one event changed all the rule sfor me, and I went through this fog for so long, because I lost faith in my reasons for those rules, and now for the first time I can accept myself and those rules again.

And the worst part is, I want to go back to that person I was before -- I am terrified that I am 'ruined', and that there isn't a place for me anywhere because of it. Be it gender based, cultural, or even, religious -- how far do you have to stray to be a lost cause - or is there such a thing?

What do you do when you strayed away from your own convictions, and then realize your error once all your pain is gone and you're not blinded by it anymore?

[Mehtab Singh]

After ages I am seeing that someone is posting messages that make one actually read the entire message and think before posting. Good job seektruthgal sister :nihungsmile:

As I was sitting here reading this, it occurred ot me that something about our dialogue somehow helped me to identify, and answer, an internal conflict that has been plaguing me for a few years now.

We are glad we could help. You need to thank only Gurujee and not any one of us.

It occured to me, that, I feel like I sold myself out. By that I mean, there was a time when I felt so strong in my convictions, whether or not I felt them to be religiously based, or just based on my combining all the things around me into patterns I saw as right or wrong, and then after the crumbling of a first and only relationship, I suddenly found myself not caring anymore, as if a bubble had been burst.

Firstly, if your convictions were not related to Sikhi, then remember that at times we hold dear certain beliefs out of ego, and as they say "Prida hath a fall", those convictions that arose and were held onto because of ego fall and break as well. Secondly, if those beliefs were Sikhi-related, perhaps it was God's way of testing you, as to how strong you were, would you waver in tough times or not, etc. Thirdly, don't blame yourself. Its part of life to lose hope and faith when struck with misery, but the blessing of Sikhi is to still have faith in Gurujee and know it for sure that He will get you through. You can cultivate such a faith by seeking answers from Gurbani, and your love for Gurujee will sprout and grow as well.

I realize now that what was really bugging me was that I had fallen into a relationship, into many things, but in a way that still allowed me to adhere to my values - there was so much that I didn't do, that we both didn't do - because we had the same values.

So you were saved! :D

Once that ended, for some reason, now, I remember, it through me into this downward spiral where I started to question everythng -I started to drink, I stopped caring about things I used to. I felt somehow as though everything I thought was possible, suddenlyh wasn't, and that, those values that I thought I managed to find a happy medium of, in another person, were also false. I was always very isolated from other punjabi and/or sikh people my age - and when I started to see what the rest of them were like, something inside sort of crumbled, and its funny I didnt remember that moment until today. It was almost as though my values, or the hope I had that I coudl somewhoe live a life where my values and those of the world around me matched, died too. I cant really think of any other way to explain it.

Let me guess: do you watch a lot of Bollywood movies? If you do, don't bother to let that stuff get to your head, and just snap out of it. I know its easy for me to say, but its you who has to do the task.

Now that it;s been a few years, and I guess I'm at that age where you start to want to think ahead, I feel so weighted down by all the things that have happened to me since. I feel like a dumb girl who didn't know any better, and now I've seen so many things that don't match what I thought the world was

Like I said, put Bollywood aside and snap out of it. These things are bad for one's psychology, personality, and emotional well-being.

I dont know how to go back. Its like one event changed all the rule sfor me, and I went through this fog for so long, because I lost faith in my reasons for those rules

Whats the need to go back? You are probably a stronger person now, so don't wish to go back.

now for the first time I can accept myself and those rules again.

Thats good. Feeling guilty leads no one anywhere. Whats done is done.

And the worst part is, I want to go back to that person I was before -- I am terrified that I am 'ruined', and that there isn't a place for me anywhere because of it.

You might want to ask for forgiveness from Gurujee, and know for sure that He forgives

Be it gender based, cultural, or even, religious -- how far do you have to stray to be a lost cause - or is there such a thing?

There is no end if one wants to stray, and its never late to return :D

What do you do when you strayed away from your own convictions, and then realize your error once all your pain is gone and you're not blinded by it anymore?

You weigh what you got and lost due to your convictions, and what you got and lost after you disowned them. You will find your answer :D

Hope all that made sense . I am just another human being trying to say what little bit I know. I am no way close to perfect so don't take my input as the final word. The final word for us as Sikhs is Gurbani, and I request you to seek answers from there. You will get more than what you ask for :wub: .

May Gurujee bless you sis