We Call Them Raagis.

[Akaali]

Vaaheguru jee ka khalsaaaa, Vaaheguruu jee kee fatehhh!

We've all heard the term raagis referred to the gurduaara keertanees. But how many of them are truly "raagis".

We all know what raag is, and a raagi is someone who sings in it, so should we refer to them as "raagis"?

Intentionally or unintentionally we do and we shouldn't what does everyone think?

Vaaheguru jee ka khalsaaaa, Vaaheguruu jee kee fatehhh!

[Jasmit Kaur]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

well there are those who truly stick by the prescriptions of the guru ji and sing bani the way its meant to be sung

for e.g

the shubd

'rudro mann harr rango lorray'- should be sung in the raag toddi.

but there are thsoe who sing bani in filmy tunes. i have herd many kirtanis or raagis sing bani in filmy tune sung byu mh raffi etc.

i gotta say tho the best raagis are those as i described above whom sing bani as prescribed by the gurus- bhai balbir singh jee is an excellent example of those.

bull chuk maaf karni

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

[pyaraji]

I feel many Raagis leave India not to do keertan or seva for the sangat, but to make some money with the possibility of starting a new life in Canada or Europe or wherever. Its not hard to learn a few beats on the tabla and push a few keys on the vaja. Nowadays, that all you need to become a raagi.

Maybe there should be some international testing for raagis before they are given the full time position at a gurdwara just to do keertan with some sort of salary. Possibly test knowledge of raag or knowledge of taals. However, I don't think there's enough demand for Raagi positions in our many many gurdwaras, so many gurdwara are willing to hire anyone.

This also leads to the idea of Raagi being an unattractive career path for the youth nowadays. Some people believe that we shouldn't make a salary from doing keertan. Maybe our Diwans would be filled with Guru Sahib's Raag if we make keertan a professional career option for the youth.

[Akaali]

I feel many Raagis leave India not to do keertan or seva for the sangat, but to make some money with the possibility of starting a new life in Canada or Europe or wherever. Its not hard to learn a few beats on the tabla and push a few keys on the vaja. Nowadays, that all you need to become a raagi.

Maybe there should be some international testing for raagis before they are given the full time position at a gurdwara just to do keertan with some sort of salary. Possibly test knowledge of raag or knowledge of taals. However, I don't think there's enough demand for Raagi positions in our many many gurdwaras, so many gurdwara are willing to hire anyone.

This also leads to the idea of Raagi being an unattractive career path for the youth nowadays. Some people believe that we shouldn't make a salary from doing keertan. Maybe our Diwans would be filled with Guru Sahib's Raag if we make keertan a professional career option for the youth.

I agree with everything you said.

How can we put this into practice?

Maybe learn tanti saaz (string instruments) and keertan in raag and do sevaa @ our gurduaare on a scheduled basis?

[rupinder singh]

Vaaheguru jee ka khalsaaaa, Vaaheguruu jee kee fatehhh!

We've all heard the term raagis referred to the gurduaara keertanees. But how many of them are truly "raagis".

We all know what raag is, and a raagi is someone who sings in it, so should we refer to them as "raagis"?

Intentionally or unintentionally we do and we shouldn't what does everyone think?

Vaaheguru jee ka khalsaaaa, Vaaheguruu jee kee fatehhh!

dont bother me. at least some individuals are committed to singing kirtan to the sangat whether its raag or not. it's these "besooray" raagis who perform the asa di war slokes every day in our guru ghars where are the supposed pakay raag walay when it comes to committing to the daily sewa of kirtan.

without these "besooray" raagis singing in filmi tunes most guru ghars would not be able to carry out daily diwans.

[pyaraji]

Rupinder Singh is right but that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

In terms of tanti saaz, I think the first step would be to make them more readily available and at cheaper prices in North America or Europe. This way, the average sikh household could also have tanti saaz in addition to tablas and vaajas.

I think by bringing tanti saaz back into our gurdwaras and keertan programs, this will also bring back raag simultaneously. With increased demand for learning tanti saaz, gurdwara committees could also start up classes to teach these students.

[Akaali]

Its true, but is it right to just let things happen how they are or strive to do more sevaa @ our local gurduaara sahebaans in order to improve the tradition/maryada.

Our gurmat sangeet maryada/tradition should be followed so that it can be preserved for future generations instead of passing on the modificated version of it.

In praatan times, did our gurus sit in divaan from 1am to 10pm? No, guru saaheb de divaan lagde see. Morning divaans and evening divaans, there was a reason behind this also.

1) To have utshah of going to sangat and meeting/greeting the guru, having that aas, mera mun lochay gur darsan taaee bilap kare chattrik kee neaaee| Today we have the luxury of going anytime, I'm not saying its a bad thing, in the midst of maya anytime we can spend with guru saheb and sangat is fruitful. But it depends on the times and situations.

2) They had morning/evening divaans so everyone can do kirt kamaaee/worldly errands, and also hold the miri/piri concept of learning/understanding politics, warfare, music, and other religious scriptures.

We all have our views on how things should be running in our gurduaare today. But we have to support our families and work.

In today's times I feel that in order to maintain tradition/maryada that we should be doing the following, doing guru saaheb's parkaash EARLY morning (2-3am) then doing simran,nitnem,asadivaar, other baaneeaa, maintain the parkaash and sukhaasan of Larivaar saroops, prepare and vartaa degh in sarbloh. Have keertan done in raag and tanti saaz and do sukhaasan, and do our kirt kamaaee, come back to the gurduaara saheb in the evening, hold a divaan of kathaa/gurmat sikhyaa, dhaddi vaaraan, and keertan.

Everyone has their views on how gurduaaraa activities should be run based on several aspects, but saying that atleast the ragis are doing something is not a good enough excuse to turn a blind eye to our customs and traditions, which need to be preserved for the future, and in some aspects they are.

Bhul chuk muaaf karnaa jee.

[rupinder singh]

Rupinder Singh is right but that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

In terms of tanti saaz, I think the first step would be to make them more readily available and at cheaper prices in North America or Europe. This way, the average sikh household could also have tanti saaz in addition to tablas and vaajas.

I think by bringing tanti saaz back into our gurdwaras and keertan programs, this will also bring back raag simultaneously. With increased demand for learning tanti saaz, gurdwara committees could also start up classes to teach these students.

in this stagei think it's more important to implement the shabad in to your lifestyle. to live by Gurbani is what we lack focus on and instead we focus on instruments and tunes. i understand that we should maintain our puratan maryada but also in this day and age where our community are too far from sikhi i dont think tunes are our primary concern.

[pyaraji]

I agree its about priorities. Raag might be lower on your and the average person's list of priorities, but we're talking about Raagis and youth with a potential Raagi career path. It should be one of their top priorities.

If we listen to the shabad in the Raag that we were supposed to sing/listen it in. It might be easier for us to understand the essense of the shabad and consequently implement it in our lifestyle.

[KhalsaMan]

Interesting...

I live in Canada, born here. When I was younger I learnt tabla from a local Gurdwara but, my interest really went into kirtan after I started playing more and more tabla for different variations of kirtanee.

I didn't learn raag matra or anything like that. I would listen to a keertan recording, and figure it out myself on the vaaja. I am now 20 years old, have not listened to any form of hindi/punjabi/english/ or any other music since I was about 7 or 8 years old. All I do is listen to kirtan. I copy the "tunes" of many professional raagi. I have no idea if they are "hindi song" tunes or not. I just do kirtan using these tunes at home, as a showing of love to Guru.

Does this make me a bad person?

I think you're being too judgemental here.