An Alternative Point Of View

[Bir_Ras]

Fateh to cyber sangat!

I just want to first of all state that is by NO means daas' opinion, nor does daas condone this, however daas would like to ask some tough questions and put forward some purposefully contentious points for debate.

This is Part 1

Females of the Panth

Daas believes that the bibiaan in the panth are perhaps the greatest problem that we sikhs face in modern days...

there are a few reasons.

1) It is 9 times out of 10 the bibian who are lured into converting by the same old methods - when are they going to wake up and realise the truth?! Why do they feel some sort of special attachment to persons of another religion

2)Daas has heard so many excuses over the years - "i cant stand being in public with hairy legs/ facial hair etc" so i wont go for amrit - this is the very basic one - there are a thousand variations on this, but the basic 'logic' is always the same ...i'm too image concious to follow the path of my guru

: Daas challenges this wallowing in self pity as manmat - the poor little me sob story simply doesnt wash - daas thinks back to the time when Singhniaan didnt self pity when their children were shot through the skull while they were protesting, their insides splattered all over the Guru kay singhnees clothes, yet they simply did an ardas thanking Maharaj!! WaheGuru!!!! (this was less than 90 years ago)

3)Daas has also heard the thing about singhs not wanting to marry singhniaan with facial hair - daas would say rather than get bitter , ask yourself - who actually lost out? If a bibi has this incident happen - would they rather the so called singh (whose a jackal in the roop of a lion) go along with them, marry them and then quite possibly vent their dislike throughout the marriage?? See it oh bhenay as Maharaj doing MAJOR kirpa on you , saving you from so much future dukh!!

4)The issue of "Punj Piyaareeaan" - daas would suggest that rather than spending priceless breaths that are on loan to us arguing over these pointless issues, increase your jeevan and make yourself a role model to the more impressionable youth coming through - very many of the youth get little inspiration from Bazoorg or even Saakhiaan - even GurBanee unfortunately doesnt inspire the youth - they are directly inspired by the jeevan's of their peers - who in the bibiaan can legitimately held up to give a good example of how to live a gursikhi life

Singhs - Manvir Singh - Sukha Singh etc etc...

Anyways thats all for now...!

PART 2 to come - Men or Mice?

[jasleen k]

Fateh to cyber sangat!

I just want to first of all state that is by NO means daas' opinion, nor does daas condone this, however daas would like to ask some tough questions and put forward some purposefully contentious points for debate.

This is Part 1

Females of the Panth

Daas believes that the bibiaan in the panth are perhaps the greatest problem that we sikhs face in modern days...

if this is NOT your opinion, then why post it? obviously it's insulting to singhnia. what does it achieve?

1) It is 9 times out of 10 the bibian who are lured into converting by the same old methods - when are they going to wake up and realise the truth?! Why do they feel some sort of special attachment to persons of another religion

i'm sorry, but what on earth are you talking about? i've never met any sikh girl that converted to another religion. i have met several girls who converted TO sikhi... where do you get this "9 out of 10" number? looking around the gurdwara, i'd have to disagree with you, there are usually more women present.

2)Daas has heard so many excuses over the years - "i cant stand being in public with hairy legs/ facial hair etc" so i wont go for amrit - this is the very basic one - there are a thousand variations on this, but the basic 'logic' is always the same ...i'm too image concious to follow the path of my guru

obviously someone who isn't ready to offer their head to guru will make many excuses for it. my advice: spend more time with sadh sangat and less time with kusangat.

3)Daas has also heard the thing about singhs not wanting to marry singhniaan with facial hair - daas would say rather than get bitter , ask yourself - who actually lost out? If a bibi has this incident happen - would they rather the so called singh (whose a jackal in the roop of a lion) go along with them, marry them and then quite possibly vent their dislike throughout the marriage?? See it oh bhenay as Maharaj doing MAJOR kirpa on you , saving you from so much future dukh!!

i agree with you, but this is more of a problem with the double standard set by the singhs (wanting waxed/trimmed wives while they whine that no one will marry a sikh with a turban - hypocrits!), rather than something women are doing wrong.

4)The issue of "Punj Piyaareeaan" - daas would suggest that rather than spending priceless breaths that are on loan to us arguing over these pointless issues, increase your jeevan and make yourself a role model to the more impressionable youth coming through - very many of the youth get little inspiration from Bazoorg or even Saakhiaan - even GurBanee unfortunately doesnt inspire the youth - they are directly inspired by the jeevan's of their peers - who in the bibiaan can legitimately held up to give a good example of how to live a gursikhi life

i agree that we should worry more about becoming better sikhs first, but excluding women from amrit sanchar seva is a serious issue that is absolutely anti-gurmat.

i can hold up more Singhnia than i can count as incredible sevadars, leaders, kirtanis, kathavachaks, gatka instructors, sisters, daughters, mothers, friends... there are two big differences between these women and the singhs who are held up as "inspirations" for youth (not speaking against any specific singh, just in general).

first, punjabi culture tends to look to men for leadership, even overlooking women who are able to do the role. this is seen in some communities when looking for amrit sanchar sevadars. this is also evidenced by the fact that punjabi gurdwaras nearly always are completely run by men, have male granthis, have male committees, etc. while if you look at gurdwaras with a non-punjabi population (in many countries of the world), you'll see women are equal, or even more active in these roles than men.

second, women are taught to be more "gupt" about their seva. they don't brag about their accomplishments as much. and so they don't get noticed for their accomplishments as much. and if they don't get noticed, then obviously they won't be big inspirations... unless you're LOOKING to be inspired. THEN you'll see them.

myself excluded, i find most singhnia more humble and less likely to step forward, so obviously they won't be seen.

(i, on the other hand, am loud and big headed. :D )

but think about it... behind every successful Singh, is a strong Singhni, supporting him and taking none of the credit. and probably a devout mother, who encouraged him on his path.

read a bit about Bibi Amrarjit Kaur if you want to know how a true Singhni lives. she is the woman i look up to most in this world.

ok, i'm off the soap box. for now.