Please Assist With Dasam Granth Query..

Gurfateh,

Excellent discussion so far guys, great contributions.. special thanks to BhForce bhaaji, loved your post.

The current, standard printing of Dasam Granth is compiled as per the Sodhak Committee (which met for a long time during the end of the 19th century at the Akal Takhat), and they edited a standard version of Dasam Granth for printing purposes.

Ah, I didn't know this.. thanks for posting the puratan saroop info too.. helps a lot. A question, why was zafarnama added, we could have had the same compilation as dasam pita had created?

Good question, but I can't answer it. It was added by puratan Singhs, though, and not by the Committee, afaik. Anyways, I don't think it would be prudent to mess with standard to subtract or add compositions, even if they are of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Very much truth, yet they miss the entire point. OK let's call 2/3 the same as in the Hindu granths. It's the 1/3 that's important.

Yes! this is exactly what my thoughts were. even if one baani was written by dasam pita, surely its a great boon for us sikhs!

The funny thing is, the opponents try to pretend like it's some great revelation that portions of it are related to old literature.

Yet the Dasam Granth explicitly states just that at the end of Krishavatar:

ਦਸਮ ਕਥਾ ਭਾਗਉਤ ਕੀ ਭਾਖਾ ਕਰੀ ਬਨਾਇ ॥

I have composed the discourse of the tenth part (Skandh) of Bhagavat [Puran] in the vernacular;

It's not like it's a big secret or anything. But the important part is the next line which explains the reason for the translation:

ਅਵਰ ਬਾਸਨਾ ਨਾਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਧਰਮ ਜੁੱਧ ਕੇ ਚਾਇ ॥੨੪੯੧॥ O Lord ! I have no other desire and have only the zeal for the war fought on the basis of righteousness.2491.

So, the reason for putting the Krishavtar to pen was to encourage dharam yudh (war for righteousness).

It's not really an issue of printing presses because Dasam Granth is present in hand-written form. I will grant that Hindus running a printing press (of which there were plenty in Lahore) will not pay as much attention to spellings as learned Sikhs will. Hence, they could easily look over misspellings which can change the meanings.

if there wasn't much collusion why was there a sodak committee (for knowledge's sake)

When printing presses were being set up in Punjab, the options were either to present a standard version to the print shops, or to ban printing by anyone other than Sikh authorities. The first option was taken then, and the second is being attempted to be taken now (at least regarding Guru Granth Sahib Ji).

No problem. In general don't start reading Dasam Granth until you've read Guru Granth Sahib Ji a few times.

Bhai sahib, is this because of the sant/sipahi concept? with guru granth sahib providing sant sikhiya and dasam granth providing sipahi sikhiya? Or is this just your personal opinion.. Please clarify

Yes, you can say it's because of sant/sipahi. Bhagti comes first, and if you don't know what the dharam is, there's no point in trying to defend dharam. For example, although Dasam Granth talks about God, it does not talk about Satguru in the same way that Guru Granth Sahib Ji does. Because Dasam Granth is not meant to replace Guru Granth Sahib Ji, this is not a problem.

Since the rehitnamas state that Guru Gobind Singh has stated the Dasam Granth to be secondary to Guru Granth Sahib Ji, obviously we have to start with Guru Granth Sahib Ji when studying our religion.

Yes, it's my personal opinion, but no, it's not just my personal opinion, but rather a standard view in the Panth. As user jassa states in this thread:

no one is going to give you santhia of Dasam Granth if you don't have a firm grip on Guru Granth Sahib.

So that's where you start.

Inder Singh · December 27, 2009

Major section of krishna avtar that describes war part is not found in Dasam Skanad at all.

It is completely new and totally composed by Guru Gobind singh ji. So those lines

are not to be taken literal.

BhForce · December 27, 2009

Yes, it's true, like I noted above, the stuff about Kharag Singh, etc. is nowhere to be found in Hindu granths.

Inder Singh · December 27, 2009

Ah, I didn't know this.. thanks for posting the puratan saroop info too.. helps a lot. A question, why was zafarnama added, we could have had the same compilation as dasam pita had created?

Is zafarnama not a composition of dashamesh pita? Of course it is.Then why should not it be added.

I may ask in the same way why Guru teg bahadar's bani was added?

singh987 · December 27, 2009

Ah, I didn't know this.. thanks for posting the puratan saroop info too.. helps a lot. A question, why was zafarnama added, we could have had the same compilation as dasam pita had created?

Is zafarnama not a composition of dashamesh pita? Of course it is.Then why should not it be added.

I may ask in the same way why Guru teg bahadar's bani was added?

S. Inder Singh, you are coming off as a bit too hard on me, analysing deeply every word of my comments, I get the feeling that you think I am anti dasam baani. Well, I'm just trying to gain information and correct knowledge, so please assist with that. Please don't try to blow things out of context. Your statement holds no relevance to my quesiton, our Guru sahibaans were distinguished poets and learned individuals. They wrote many things, not all of it was baani... see my point? They CLEARLY collated the word of god into the form of Sri. Guru Granth Sahib.

Earlier on you commented that all bani's of dasam granth had input of dasam pita. My reply was based on the information that bhforce paaji provided and my own understanding, my intention was to highlight the importance ANY of guru sahib's written baani. Please don't try and corner me on that opinion. I am afterall trying to establish if there is collusion of hindu mat in the dasam granth in its current form.

On another note, I really HATED one of the video's by the nihang singh from tarna dal where he states (in his opinion) that if someone questions dasam granth then nihang singh's/khalsa singh's should just beat them up or "sodha laa dau". Well i'm sorry, if we start doing that how are we any different from the moghuls who opressed and scared people into following their religious beliefs.

Anyhow, I will continue reading and thank BhForce paaji once more.

Edit: I thought I mentioned this but clearly forgot:

Gur Teg bahadur's baani was added because space was LEFT intentionally in SGGSJ by 5th paatshah for the saloks of 9th paathshah. They also ordained at that time that 9th paathshah will iterate more baani from akaalpurakh and that 6th,7th & 8th paathshaahi will not be adding any more baani.

BhForce · December 27, 2009

987,

I am afterall trying to establish if there is collusion of hindu mat in the dasam granth in its current form.

With all due respect, I don't think you have to do this. You're just learning, and as has been stated above, get santhia or read teekas of Guru Granth Sahib. After that, you can proceed to reading Dasam Granth.

At your current stage, you don't have the background to be able to evaluate or even appreciate Dasam Granth. Again, no offense, but as has been stated above, the normal order for learning bani (followed through the whole panth) is Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and then Dasam Granth.

Skipping all these steps and going straight into listening to anti-Dasam Granth videos and then feeling as if you have to test their veracity, is, I feel, a mistake. Taking too large of a step sets one up for a fall.

With incomplete knowledge, one is vulnerable to manipulation. For example (not that it matters, but just as an example), spaces left in the Kartarpuri Bir (prepared by 5th Guru) were not in the spots where 9th Guru's bani was revealed. This is apparent from Prof. Sahib Singh's book Aad Bir Bare.

Again, this small point doesn't really matter, but a misunderstanding about some other point might be truly misleading.

It's really quite pathetic that some Dasam Granth opponents have been reduced to saying that Hindu printers added some material to Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani. First of all, this is disproven by the hand-written manuscripts. Second, why would Hindus want to encourage Sikhs to bear arms?

The late Baldev Singh had alleged that the British created the Dasam Granth. That, again, doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Out of all the colonies the British ruled (America, India, Kenya, etc.) did they ever encourage the people they ruled to bear arms? Why would they want the Sikhs to bear arms?

As you may or may not know, Guru Granth Sahib Ji has a great deal of (superficial) similarity to many Hindu writings. But it's the differences which are important.

Chasing down conspiracy theories is, really, a waste.

I think you've learned a good bit in this discussion thread, and you should just go forward with santhia at this point.

I hope you make quick progress in learning bani.

Inder Singh · December 28, 2009

Well, I'm just trying to gain information and correct knowledge, so please assist with that. Please don't try to blow things out of context. Your statement holds no relevance to my quesiton, our Guru sahibaans were distinguished poets and learned individuals. They wrote many things, not all of it was baani... see my point? They CLEARLY collated the word of god into the form of Sri. Guru Granth Sahib.

Please name the writings of Guru sahibs which you think is not recognized. Mere making a statement means nothing.

Earlier on you commented that all bani's of dasam granth had input of dasam pita. My reply was based on the information that bhforce paaji provided and my own understanding, my intention was to highlight the importance ANY of guru sahib's written baani. Please don't try and corner me on that opinion. I am afterall trying to establish if there is collusion of hindu mat in the dasam granth in its current form.

I stand by my statement. All banis of dasam granth have input from dasam Pita. If there is any granth that attacks barahminism it is dasam Granth.Bh force never said what you are trying to say here in a concealed way.

On another note, I really HATED one of the video's by the nihang singh from tarna dal where he states (in his opinion) that if someone questions dasam granth then nihang singh's/khalsa singh's should just beat them up or "sodha laa dau". Well i'm sorry, if we start doing that how are we any different from the moghuls who opressed and scared people into following their religious beliefs.

Nihung singh has made thr right statement. There is a Hukamnama from akal takhat also terming those who doubt Dasam Granth as Mischoief mongers.Their real aim is to indulge in propaganda against granth of kahlsa.

Gur Teg bahadur's baani was added because space was LEFT intentionally in SGGSJ by 5th paatshah for the saloks of 9th paathshah. They also ordained at that time that 9th paathshah will iterate more baani from akaalpurakh and that 6th,7th & 8th paathshaahi will not be adding any more baani.

This is complete nonsense. Have you seen kartapuri beer. if so tell us how it looks. If not then your staement is aime at spredaing misinformation.

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Please Assist With Dasam Granth Query..

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