Guru Gobind Singh Ji & Vishnu .....

[mohinder pal]

ਕਿਸਨ ਬਿਸਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹਿ ਧਿਆਊਂ

It doesnot mean that Guru ji said ਕਿਸਨ ਬਿਸਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹਿ ਧਿਆਊਂ ; SIkhs donot have to worship Krishna and Bishn(Vishnu), the above lines simpally means Guru Gobind singh ji worshipped Akal Purakh(Form less Nirankar).

Just asking one question HOW MANY OF US HAVE SEEN THAT FORMLESS NIRANKAR. that Formless Nirankar takes form of Sargun Form by coming in SATGURU, SANT, BRAHMGYANIS, MAHAPURSH forms so that Sin people like me can have its darshan in the Sargun form BCZ we donot have that AVASTHA(Which GURU GOBIND SINGH JI HAD) to reach Formless NIARANKAR; thats way SGGSji says SANTA Kao Mat Koi nindo, SANT RAM hai EKO.

If Guru Gobind singh ji wanted us to avoid worship of Krishna and Vishnu by saying ਕਿਸਨ ਬਿਸਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹਿ ਧਿਆਊਂ , then why did the Previoud SATGURUS wrote bani on Krishna and Vishnu.kvl nYn mDur bYn koit sYn sMg soB khq mw jsod ijsih dhI Bwqu Kwih jIau ].

If Satguru wanted us to avoid worshipping Vishnu and Brahma, they would have simpally used Akal or Nirankar Names in the Gurbani...why did they used words like Vishnu,Krishna,Ram etc.

SIKH MAT is all about Prema Bhagti(Love and Devotion) not Sharia Mat.

[GPS]

Naamdev, Kabir, Prahlad, Dhru all worshipped Vishnu and their names are in SGGSJI and still you are questioning whether they were sikhs

They wroshipped akal purakh only whose attributes are given in Mool Mantar. None of them wroshipped Vishnu who is

one of the trinity of Hindu faith.

Guru gobind singh ji wrote bani on these avtars to tell us that though they were considered avtars but they failed in their

mission and acted just like mortals.

ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋਂ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥

* If he (Krishna) is said to be unborn and without a beginning, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki? He, who is considered without any father or mother, then why did he cause Vasudev to be called his father? 14.

* ਕਾਹੇ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਮਹੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਭਾਖਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ਹੈ ਨ ਰਘ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਜਦ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਰਮਾਪਤਿ ਤੈ ਜਿਨ ਕੌ ਬਿਸ੍ਵਨਾਥ ਪਛਾਨਯੋ ॥

* Why do you consider Shiva or Brahma as the Lord? There is none amongst Ram, Krishna and Vishnu, who may be considered as the Lord of the Universe by you;

Dasam Granth sahib

* ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਔ ਬਿਸਨ ਜਪੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਧਿਆਯੋ ॥ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜਪਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਸੰਭੁ ਥਪਿਓ ਤਿਹ ਤੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥……..ਤੋਹਿ ਬਚਾਇ ਸਕੈ ਕਹੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਕੈ ਆਪਨ ਘਾਵ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਐਹੈ ॥ਕੋਪ ਕਰਾਲ ਕੀ ਪਾਵਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮੈ ਆਪ ਟੰਗਿਓ ਤਿਮ ਤੋਹਿ ਟੰਗੈਹੈ ॥

* Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims. Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee…….They cannot save themselves from the blow of death, how can they protect thee? They are all hanging in the blazing fire of anger, therefore they will cause thy hanging similarly. (pg111)

Dasam Granth sahib

Let us not confuse others by stating what is not in our scriptures.

[Guest SarabjeetSingh]

ਕਿਸਨ ਬਿਸਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹਿ ਧਿਆਊਂ

It doesnot mean that Guru ji said ਕਿਸਨ ਬਿਸਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹਿ ਧਿਆਊਂ ; SIkhs donot have to worship Krishna and Bishn(Vishnu), the above lines simpally means Guru Gobind singh ji worshipped Akal Purakh(Form less Nirankar).

Just asking one question HOW MANY OF US HAVE SEEN THAT FORMLESS NIRANKAR. that Formless Nirankar takes form of Sargun Form by coming in SATGURU, SANT, BRAHMGYANIS, MAHAPURSH forms so that Sin people like me can have its darshan in the Sargun form BCZ we donot have that AVASTHA(Which GURU GOBIND SINGH JI HAD) to reach Formless NIARANKAR; thats way SGGSji says SANTA Kao Mat Koi nindo, SANT RAM hai EKO.

If Guru Gobind singh ji wanted us to avoid worship of Krishna and Vishnu by saying ਕਿਸਨ ਬਿਸਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹਿ ਧਿਆਊਂ , then why did the Previoud SATGURUS wrote bani on Krishna and Vishnu.kvl nYn mDur bYn koit sYn sMg soB khq mw jsod ijsih dhI Bwqu Kwih jIau ].

If Satguru wanted us to avoid worshipping Vishnu and Brahma, they would have simpally used Akal or Nirankar Names in the Gurbani...why did they used words like Vishnu,Krishna,Ram etc.

SIKH MAT is all about Prema Bhagti(Love and Devotion) not Sharia Mat.

What do u mean by sharia mat ? So if its prema bhagti only that matter , then you can justify idol worship also , since hindus worship their idol gods with full bhagti and then can I worship Flying Sphagetti monster as well ( with prema bhagti ) ?

[mohinder pal]

What do u mean by sharia mat ? So if its prema bhagti only that matter , then you can justify idol worship also , since hindus worship their idol gods with full bhagti and then can I worship Flying Sphagetti monster as well ( with prema bhagti ) ?

Saach Kaho SUn leyo Sabhe, Jin Prem Kyo Tin Hee Prabh Payeo.

ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਮਾਨੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਅਘਾਨੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਭਏ.

[mohinder pal]

They wroshipped akal purakh only whose attributes are given in Mool Mantar. None of them wroshipped Vishnu who is

one of the trinity of Hindu faith.

Guru gobind singh ji wrote bani on these avtars to tell us that though they were considered avtars but they failed in their

mission and acted just like mortals.

ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋਂ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥

* If he (Krishna) is said to be unborn and without a beginning, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki? He, who is considered without any father or mother, then why did he cause Vasudev to be called his father? 14.

* ਕਾਹੇ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਮਹੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਭਾਖਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ਹੈ ਨ ਰਘ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਜਦ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਰਮਾਪਤਿ ਤੈ ਜਿਨ ਕੌ ਬਿਸ੍ਵਨਾਥ ਪਛਾਨਯੋ ॥

* Why do you consider Shiva or Brahma as the Lord? There is none amongst Ram, Krishna and Vishnu, who may be considered as the Lord of the Universe by you;

Dasam Granth sahib

* ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਔ ਬਿਸਨ ਜਪੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਧਿਆਯੋ ॥ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜਪਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਸੰਭੁ ਥਪਿਓ ਤਿਹ ਤੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥……..ਤੋਹਿ ਬਚਾਇ ਸਕੈ ਕਹੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਕੈ ਆਪਨ ਘਾਵ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਐਹੈ ॥ਕੋਪ ਕਰਾਲ ਕੀ ਪਾਵਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮੈ ਆਪ ਟੰਗਿਓ ਤਿਮ ਤੋਹਿ ਟੰਗੈਹੈ ॥

* Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims. Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee…….They cannot save themselves from the blow of death, how can they protect thee? They are all hanging in the blazing fire of anger, therefore they will cause thy hanging similarly. (pg111)

Dasam Granth sahib

Let us not confuse others by stating what is not in our scriptures.

VEERJI TELL ME ONE THING. If Prahlad had worshipped AKAL PURAKH, then why did he recieve the Darshan of NARSINGHA Avtaar(which is the avttar of Vishnu) and protected him from his Father.

If Devottee Soordas had Worshipped Akal Purakh, then why did Shri Krishna came to him in Jungle to Serve him with MILK.

If Bhagat Hanuman had worshipped Akal Purskh, then why did he do Seva and he did recieved darshan of Shri Ram.

[GPS]

VEERJI TELL ME ONE THING. If Prahlad had worshipped AKAL PURAKH, then why did he recieve the Darshan of NARSINGHA Avtaar(which is the avttar of Vishnu) and protected him from his Father.

If Devottee Soordas had Worshipped Akal Purakh, then why did Shri Krishna came to him in Jungle to Serve him with MILK.

If Bhagat Hanuman had worshipped Akal Purskh, then why did he do Seva and he did recieved darshan of Shri Ram.

Gurbani mentions Bhagat Prahlad as a Gurmukh and devotee of akal purakh. It was akal purakh who saved Prahlad.

Bhagat Prahlad was not devotee of any Vishnu,

Neither Bhagat namdev or Kabir ji were devotees of any Devta / devi.

ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਡੋਲਹਿ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨਾ ॥

ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਅਕੁਲੁ ਨਹੀ ਚੇਤਿਆ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਸਿਉ ਲਪਟਾਨਾ ॥

O man, you worship gods and goddesses, but you do not know the Supreme Being.

Says Kabeer, you have not remembered the Lord who has no ancestors; you are clinging to your corrupt ways

(sggs 332).

You are requested to quote Gurbani here in support of your arguements. Gurbani considers these devtas as maya

who failed to realize Akal Purakh.

[GPS]

ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਕੀ ਰਖਦਾ ਆਇਆ ॥

जुगि जुगि भगता की रखदा आइआ ॥

Jug jug bẖagṯā kī rakẖ▫ḏā ā▫i▫ā.

In each and every age, the Lord saves the honor of His devotees.

ਦੈਤ ਪੁਤ੍ਰੁ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦੁ ਗਾਇਤ੍ਰੀ ਤਰਪਣੁ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਸਬਦੇ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

दैत पुत्रु प्रहलादु गाइत्री तरपणु किछू न जाणै सबदे मेलि मिलाइआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Ḏaiṯ puṯar parahlāḏ gā▫iṯarī ṯarpaṇ kicẖẖū na jāṇai sabḏe mel milā▫i▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o.

Prahlaad, the demon's son, knew nothing of the Hindu morning prayer, the Gayatri, and nothing about ceremonial water-offerings to his ancestors; but through the Word of the Shabad, he was united in the Lord's Union. ||1||Pause||

ang 1133 SGGS