Unity

[gurdssingh]

I am starting a new topic as there a few threads which are along the same lines, refering to the Dudley incident.

I have read a few posts where the issue of it's going to be turned into or is already an amritdhari vs monah OR 'militant' vs 'liberal' issue. WELL it is NOT. Many who have not took amrit yet, are fully supportive of the 2006 sandesh. An example is I think at Grays where an Amritdhari was in favour of the community centre parties whereas a monah was not. Of course all Sikhs should aim to be amritdhari but for some its easier i.e. upbringing etc. and others its alot harder as they have not been introduced and exposed to it that much,espeacilly those who have bought up in typical British / Punjabi families.

I posted a similar thought in another thread. Those who are the majority of Sikhs in UK (im one also) i.e. typical Punjabi more so than Sikh, we are not educated about these things. (Well I have only been aware about sikh protocol since I joined this forum).

Thats why some may label the protestors i.e. the ones who caused the damage and attacked police as hard handed and militant. What is needed by ALL UK sangat is EDUCATION. No one who identifies themselves as sikh (remember there was a big push for all denominations during the census), wants to intentially offend Sikhi. However, if we are honest the majority who do identify themselves as Sikh do eat meat and drink (not talking about Amritdhari's, UK Sikh's as a whole).

They are ill informed. They would never dream of holding an alcohol and meat party in a Gurdwara Sahib langar hall. They think of the centres as sepearte buildings not part of the gurdwara. As it's happened for decades think its ok. They need to be EDUCATED about the 2006 sandesh, it's Guru jis property so it's the same thing when they get that into their mentality then they will resort from doing this. They need to know it is WRONG, as the community centre if funded by the gurdwara is part of the gurdwara.

Same applies to the 1998 sandesh regarding taking SGGS Ji to places where alcohol, meat etc is consumed. The average UK Sikh see's Akhand Paths at peoples house and see's nothing wrong with taking Maharaj saroop to wedding venues. They do NOT know its wrong.

Once the general UK Sikh population is informed then hopefull the beadbi will stop.

In an ideal world there would be no Satkaar campaign, as everyone would not offend / disregard Sikhi. HOwever, up until then Satkaar sevadars need our full support to restore respect for SGGS Ji.

[VanHelsingh]

I agree with the general sentiment of your post. It is sometimes easy to fall into the trap of drawing battlelines according to one's adherence to the faith.

But in this instance (the Dudley debacle) you only needed to listen to the debate on BBC radio yesterday, to understand that those who were in the cultural centre (the partygoers) were not ignorant about Sikhi or unaware of amritdhari / Gursikh ideals. They knew it all (or most of the important facts). Yet they still chose to castigate those who came to protest as militants and hardliners. It was a very clever ploy taking into account the climate of fear in this country, by playing on the general population's fear of intolerant brown people with beards and turbans.

You don't believe me? When Nihal informed them about the 2006 Akal Takhat Sandesh, the lady representing the centre (and a few of the people that emailed in) said "We don't wish to live according to 15th century rules" or "We want to integrate into British society. We live in the UK, not India", etc., or words to that effect. Again, a clever way of casting the Satkaar supporters in the role of villains who cling to an archaic, suffocating medieval system of respect whilst they themselves are the liberal, chilled-out, integrated Asians who love this country and just want to "get on". Who do you think the general population (or the average non-Sikh listening to the radio at the time) is going to side with in such an argument?

I have no doubt there are certain groups of Sikhs who are genuinely ignorant and unaware, and we must come together, work with them and educate them as brothers and sisters. But the Dudley folk don't care about any of it. Unaware people don't taunt Gursikhs with plates of meat and try to drown out Naam Simran with bhangra music.

In your post you say "No-one wants to intentionally offend Sikhi". I say some people don't care about not offending the faith and that's the terrible truth.

I appreciate you're trying to dampen the fires but in this instance, you're giving the Dudley "crew" too much credit. As for your wider analysis of the issues, I completely agree with you.

EDIT: Despite the above, I still think violence should not have been used, and I am not endorsing similar tactics in future protests. But like I said in a different thread, I cannot judge those who took that particular course of action because I wasn't in their shoes at the time.

[TavPrasad Singh]

Joga Singh summarises up the build up to the Dudley Protest and all the background work that was done to try and stop the GNSS Committee to understand and stop this beadbi. The GNSS Dudley just want to delibrately go forward with a party, where that was from a booking by a famaily or one staged by the committee themselves:

[AnakinSkywalker]

They need to be EDUCATED about the 2006 sandesh, it's Guru jis property so it's the same thing when they get that into their mentality then they will resort from doing this.

Kaljugi...you see it's Guru ji's property....