Slander

[SikhSeeker]

WJKK WJKF

I saw a link the other day about slander and it kinda hit me. Basically saying that it is worse sin than killing etc as you can get forgiven for this but slander is like a thorn which always pricks (sorry I don’t know the correct example)

So that got me thinking, what is slandering? For example, If I say to my friend, “ I don’t like this guy he’s a [insert derogatory words here]”. I’m correct to say that is slander.

But what if I was talking to a friend about a person and I say “I don’t like that guy” is that slander? Or if I think it is that slander?

Or if I say “this person seems a bit dodgy, or I don’t like the way that person was talking to me.” Is that expressing my views about a certain person or is that me slandering them?

Also what is the paap for gossiping, is it the same?

If these questions are stupid or irrelevant, forgive me please as I am perhaps the biggest sinner of them all and am here just to learn.

Thanks

[m4ndy]

To be honest I think everyone is guilty of saying something bad about someone. When we do say things we are coming to a judgement about that person based upon looks or personality. Then this becomes a persons opinion this can be good or it can be bad. Sometimes when we say it we don't even realise that we are actually slandering someone. I think the concept comes from the mind we do not like to accept certain individuals as we think of their characteristics, the way they act and the type of people they are. Like in all we all have the concept of good/bad but when we see bad or someone says something to upset us then we have the need to slander that person back to give a taste of their own medicine.

If we look back at Guru ji times in battle, not once did anyone say anything bad about the 'enemy' but they wernt even enemies in Guru Ji times, and the enemy took lives yet not one word of slander was said. Water was given to injured Mughals, we must realise god is in all, however in coming to that conclusion people can take advantage of that it's in our nature. If someone does say something bad we must just accept it in certain situations because then are we not bad ourselves to slander back?

I think there is different kinds of slander, everyone has a right for freedom of speech but we clash as humans with others because our views/opinions do not relate to each other. I would say swearing and thinking/wishing bad thoughts upon someone is slander. When we say we don't like that person, we must question why has he/she upset me? Or are we now referring to looks when we say that person looks dodgy so now we are judging someone on looks because they are wearing or acting in a certain way that might hurt me or people around me.

I believe, my opinion is that we shouldn't say these things but it can't be helped in certain situations we should always think before we comment. sometimes people can provoke in situations where in severe cases everyone has the right to stand up for themselves and comment on why the individual is saying certain things about me.

Viewpoints/opinions are different against slandering someone, slandering will be talking ill about a person and talking about then in terms of looks (how they are dressed) personality (how they act) that's them as individuals.

[m4ndy]

Gossiping is forming conclusions about what is happening about a certain individual or about a certain family. This would mean that we are now making up a story, which could be true or could be a lie, we then spread this story to others members within the community and it goes from ear to ear like Chinese whispers, that story is then edited from ear to ear and the outcome can be quite upsetting for the family/individual. We first must question why are we gossiping about someone, are we not trying to say that we are perfect and they are not? do we have the right to judge other peoples way of living? gossiping is slander, it means we are spreading vicious rumours true or not about a family/individual. We must refrain from these acts as karma has a way round of hitting us in the back. Then in time individual/family may comment upon our way of living or what goes on behind closed doors. if some situations it's ok to expose bad people who are doing wrong could be in terms of Sikhism, that would become justice. Like in a court of law if someone does something bad then they should be exposed to misdeeds but falsely saying something about individual/family that's slander when you know it's false.

[MokhamSingh]

WJKK WJKF

I saw a link the other day about slander and it kinda hit me. Basically saying that it is worse sin than killing etc as you can get forgiven for this but slander is like a thorn which always pricks (sorry I don't know the correct example)

So that got me thinking, what is slandering? For example, If I say to my friend, " I don't like this guy he's a [insert derogatory words here]". I'm correct to say that is slander.

But what if I was talking to a friend about a person and I say "I don't like that guy" is that slander? Or if I think it is that slander?

Or if I say "this person seems a bit dodgy, or I don't like the way that person was talking to me." Is that expressing my views about a certain person or is that me slandering them?

Also what is the paap for gossiping, is it the same?

If these questions are stupid or irrelevant, forgive me please as I am perhaps the biggest sinner of them all and am here just to learn.

Thanks

Khalsa Ji

Positive criticism is a very good thing , i.e. if you saw me doing something anti-gurmat then should take me to one side and explain the perils of my behaviour. Most people love to engage in negative criticism , i.e. if they saw me doing something wrong rather than discuusing it with me they would go to the media and try to make the scenario into a big issue in order to make me look small and youself big.

The reality is Khalsa Ji that when we slander or belittle someone what we are actually doing is slandering Waheguru sargun roop since there is nothing but Waheguru. There are many references in Gurbani regarding the consequences of slander but the following shabad seems to sum things up concisely;

ਨਿੰਦਾ ਭਲੀ ਕਿਸੈ ਕੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਮੁਗਧ ਕਰੰਨਿ ॥

Nindhaa Bhalee Kisai Kee Naahee Manamukh Mugadhh Karann ||

निंदा भली किसै की नाही मनमुख मुगध करंनि ॥

It is not good to slander anyone, but the foolish, self-willed manmukhs still do it.

15 ਸੂਹੀ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੫੫ ਪੰ. ੭

Raag Suhi Guru Amar Das Ang:755 Line: 7

[/url]<br class="clearer">ਮੁਹ ਕਾਲੇ ਤਿਨ ਨਿੰਦਕਾ ਨਰਕੇ ਘੋਰਿ ਪਵੰਨਿ ॥੬॥

Muh Kaalae Thin Nindhakaa Narakae Ghor Pavann ||6||

मुह काले तिन निंदका नरके घोरि पवंनि ॥६॥

The faces of the slanderers turn black, and they fall into the most horrible hell. ||6||

16 ਸੂਹੀ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੫੫ ਪੰ. ੭

Raag Suhi Guru Amar Das Ang:755 Line: 7

Some prominent Gursikhs told me that when we slander someone we lose our Nitnem phall for the that day , i.e. the slandered person recieves our Nitnem Phall and in the worst case scenario the slanderer actually has to endure the punishment that the slandered person was going to recieve as a result of their misdeeds.Khalsa Ji the reason why so many mischievous people in the panth go from strength to strength is solely due to fact that so many Nitnemi people slander them and pass their phall onto them.

[HDSH]

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa, Vaaheguroo Kee Kee Fathe

I don't think there is a specific punishment that you get for it because at the end of the day it is just another sin. However, I don't remember where I heard this, but when you say a negative/bad thing or judge somebody (fact or opinion, but more specifically 'opinion') their sins transfer to you as if you have committed them.

Somebody could now say that you should expose people that have actually done something bad, but it depends on the situation.

I have also heard (Think it was something from Bhai Rama Singh's book) that when you listen to slander and go to dharam raaj, you are given the punishment of getting boiling hot water put in your ears. So slander is not only saying bad things about people but listening to other's slandering people is too.

Something happened with bhagat kabeer jee or bhagat fareed jee, dont remember who it was now and I dont remember the full story, if somebody knows it please do post it. But the main part was the bhagat jee held a bottle of alcohol and got on a horse with a prostitute in front everybody which made people slander him, and he did this purposely so that people could slander him and his sins would go off his head and onto those that slandered him just because they assumed something bad about his actions. Guroo Granth Saahib Jee speaks about slander many times, this is just one shabad...

This Shabad is by Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 339

gauVI ]

gourree ||

Gauree:

inMdau inMdau mo kau logu inMdau ]

ni(n)dho ni(n)dho mo ko log ni(n)dho ||

Slander me, slander me - go ahead, people, and slander me.

inMdw jn kau KrI ipAwrI ]

ni(n)dhaa jan ko kharee piaaree ||

Slander is pleasing to the Lord's humble servant.

inMdw bwpu inMdw mhqwrI ]1] rhwau ]

ni(n)dhaa baap ni(n)dhaa mehathaaree ||1|| rehaao ||

Slander is my father, slander is my mother. ||1||Pause||

inMdw hoie q bYkuMiT jweIAY ]

ni(n)dhaa hoe th baiku(n)t(h) jaaeeai ||

If I am slandered, I go to heaven;

nwmu pdwrQu mnih bsweIAY ]

naam padhaarathh manehi basaaeeai ||

the wealth of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, abides within my mind.

irdY suD jau inMdw hoie ]

ridhai sudhh jo ni(n)dhaa hoe ||

If my heart is pure, and I am slandered,

hmry kpry inMdku Doie ]1]

hamarae kaparae ni(n)dhak dhhoe ||1||

then the slanderer washes my clothes. ||1||

inMdw krY su hmrw mIqu ]

ni(n)dhaa karai s hamaraa meeth ||

One who slanders me is my friend;

inMdk mwih hmwrw cIqu ]

ni(n)dhak maahi hamaaraa cheeth ||

the slanderer is in my thoughts.

inMdku so jo inMdw horY ]

ni(n)dhak so jo ni(n)dhaa horai ||

The slanderer is the one who prevents me from being slandered.

hmrw jIvnu inMdku lorY ]2]

hamaraa jeevan ni(n)dhak lorai ||2||

The slanderer wishes me long life. ||2||

inMdw hmrI pRym ipAwru ]

ni(n)dhaa hamaree praem piaar ||

I have love and affection for the slanderer.

inMdw hmrw krY auDwru ]

ni(n)dhaa hamaraa karai oudhhaar ||

Slander is my salvation.

jn kbIr kau inMdw swru ]

jan kabeer ko ni(n)dhaa saar ||

Slander is the best thing for servant Kabeer.

inMdku fUbw hm auqry pwir ]3]20]71]

ni(n)dhak ddoobaa ham outharae paar ||3||20||71||

The slanderer is drowned, while I am carried across. ||3||20||71||

That's an extremely simple explanation of slander, much easier to do this veechaar in person, if you know somebody who seems knowledgeable then ask them, because it can be a very deep discussion.

Sorry if I have said anything wrong.

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa, Vaaheguroo Kee Kee Fathe

[Hau Apraadhi]

inMdw kir kir bhu Bwru auTwvY ibnu mjUrI Bwru phucwvixAw ]4]

ni(n)dhaa kar kar bahu bhaar out(h)aavai bin majooree bhaar pahuchaavaniaa ||4||

By continually slandering others, they carry a terrible load, and they carry the loads of others for nothing. ||4||

[gurmukhsodhi]

I think that if you see something wrong and call it wrong, you are not a slander and if you see something good and call it good you are not a flatterer. But ignoring little things must be kept in mind.

[SikhSeeker]

Very good replies, this manmukh has learnt a thing or two