I Posted This

[Deep87]

i posted this under yuraj cancer thread. i haven't got any complete reply's. maybe not many ppl visited the thread so i will post it as a new thread.

It is bad for a sikh to be a nindak so that is not my intention here but having a doubtful is bad also. So i need someone knowledgeable to clear these issues for me.

1.Who gives sant titles. The title is floating everywhere so am a little confused.

2. If i open a dera and get a few people to sing my praises will you follow.

3. Having people call you sant; wouldn't that be a huge ego boost. Isn't entertaining an ego like that bad for a gurmukh.

4. Why don't we call past gurmuks sant but bhai. Is this a higher than thou status issue?

5. Why is the title Sant been so popular recently.

6. There are too many people with the title sant or guru at the moment out there; why do we need to identify a sant ( we have SGGS and good paracharks to explain shabad),if there is a need to identify a sant how and what criteria do you use to find the pakhandi from the genuine and what is the reason for such a search when god resides in our heart no need to look elsewhere except for shabad guru. Who has the authority to give this title. Don't tell me punjabi women they will make anyone a sant (not all though).

7. I have seen videos of "sants" getting self worshiped in SGGS presence. How is this acceptable? Sitting higher than SGGS while everyone is on the floor. Giving blessings in the presence of SGGS. What kind of a Singh apde aap nu matha takaonda and gives blessings to the sangat while we have SGGS. Is that singh bigger than SGGS. Wouldn't that Singh tell the sangat seek blessings from SGGS and say am just a there kookar.

8. Why do sants need to travel in luxury cars and live posh lifestyle. I don't mean they don't have right to ,they do, if they earn their own money. They get it from donations. If they say the luxury car was donated we didn't ask for and why don't they sell it and use the money to help, educate, feed and travel in a more economical vehicle. Arn't sants suppose to be humble in all aspects (garabi ves).

9. I could understand christens, muslims and hindus or others having sants. For some reason i can not see us having these types of titles, we are Singh's we bow only to SGGS and show respect to others, we call each other Bhai, and treat each other (old or young) equal in all regards. We seek blessing from SGGS and seek advice from fellow Singh's. We don't bow to fellow Singh's but humbly salute them with our hands folded and say WJKK WJKF. We don't call fellow Singh's "Sant or other titles because this will create divisions within the brotherhood. This is the type of unity that got me into love with sikhi and reading about past gurmuks and there love for each other.

Those are some of the questions i need clarifications on. Do not mean to offend anyone. Am a Sikh, a learner from birth.

[VanHelsingh]

Its difficult for a layman to pass judgement on individuals who refer to themselves - or their sangat refer to them - as Sants. Sometimes we don't have the requisite knowledge or gian to see the saintly qualities within that person, either because we don't want to OR we haven't invested the time and effort into understanding Gurbani so that we are capable of deciding who is or who isn't a Saint.

It is therefore a very tricky situation and is not helped by bogus sants who set-up shop and proclaim to have various qualities they clearly do not possess.

I think it is accepted that Sants should be respected, but I begin to get quite uncomfortable when I see Sants encouraging the kind of behaviour whereby materialism is not discouraged and actually it is embraced by the Sant himself, either in the way he travels or the class and type of people he has around him. Obviously no Sant should need to travel in amongst live-stock in order to prove his credentials(!), but on the other hand excessive and visual displays of wealth and prosperity do not scream "spirituality" to me. Again this could be a shortcoming on my part as I have yet to acquire that gian which allows me to differentiate between a genuine Sant and one who is not.

Finally, all I can say - and apologies for not trying to answering every question in detail - is its best to look at yourself and try to bring those Sant-like qualities to the surface in your own personality through the study of scriptures as well as living by what Gurbani says. You don't need people to declare you a Sant in order to be one. As long as the big guy upstairs knows what you are, that's all that matters in my opinion.

[Mat Pulo Rai]

I could elaborate on this more but all i want to say is that there are Gur Sikh's Bani in Sat Guru Siri Guru Granth Shaib, what i mean is that if there are Gur Sikhs that understand and have achieved union with Vaheguru one should give them reverence and listen to them with full attention. On the flip side calling them Sant makes no difference to there Avasta. But me personally i dont agree with using the title Sant and so on. Because looking at history Sant title came to our nation in the 1900's some say it was the British governments advisor's who started it to cause a rift.

[Deep87]

Its difficult for a layman to pass judgement on individuals who refer to themselves - or their sangat refer to them - as Sants. Sometimes we don't have the requisite knowledge or gian to see the saintly qualities within that person, either because we don't want to OR we haven't invested the time and effort into understanding Gurbani so that we are capable of deciding who is or who isn't a Saint.

It is therefore a very tricky situation and is not helped by bogus sants who set-up shop and proclaim to have various qualities they clearly do not possess.

I think it is accepted that Sants should be respected, but I begin to get quite uncomfortable when I see Sants encouraging the kind of behaviour whereby materialism is not discouraged and actually it is embraced by the Sant himself, either in the way he travels or the class and type of people he has around him. Obviously no Sant should need to travel in amongst live-stock in order to prove his credentials(!), but on the other hand excessive and visual displays of wealth and prosperity do not scream "spirituality" to me. Again this could be a shortcoming on my part as I have yet to acquire that gian which allows me to differentiate between a genuine Sant and one who is not.

Finally, all I can say - and apologies for not trying to answering every question in detail - is its best to look at yourself and try to bring those Sant-like qualities to the surface in your own personality through the study of scriptures as well as living by what Gurbani says. You don't need people to declare you a Sant in order to be one. As long as the big guy upstairs knows what you are, that's all that matters in my opinion.

thanks. i agree with you on the point you don't need to travel with live-stock to prove your humility. my view is that if your claiming your self to be a sant baba you need to at least show some level of humility. driving around in a benz in punjabi villages raises some red flags. but i wouldn't mind if it was from their personal kamai but its from donations and those donations can be better used. I hope these "Sant Baba's" have knowledge of this basic gurmat principle.

[Deep87]

I could elaborate on this more but all i want to say is that there are Gur Sikh's Bani in Sat Guru Siri Guru Granth Shaib, what i mean is that if there are Gur Sikhs that understand and have achieved union with Vaheguru one should give them reverence and listen to them with full attention. On the flip side calling them Sant makes no difference to there Avasta. But me personally i dont agree with using the title Sant and so on. Because looking at history Sant title came to our nation in the 1900's some say it was the British governments advisor's who started it to cause a rift.

true. Gurbani teaches us to respect sants as in Sukhmani Shaib. My understanding after amrit sanchar we are all bhai no individual titles other than bhai no matter what the avastha. I could be wrong. But we can't blame others for the problems within our house it is our fault. It is our fault that we lost the raj to the british. All the problems we have today is our fault not of rss or other institutes. All the problems we have today can be fixed if we attune our minds to gurus shabad no other.

[VanHelsingh]

thanks. i agree with you on the point you don't need to travel with live-stock to prove your humility. my view is that if your claiming your self to be a sant baba you need to at least show some level of humility. driving around in a benz in punjabi villages raises some red flags. but i wouldn't mind if it was from their personal kamai but its from donations and those donations can be better used. I hope these "Sant Baba's" have knowledge of this basic gurmat principle.

Yes I agree with this. It may have impressed the pind-dwelling masses a long time ago but these days such actions increase pessimism.

[singher23]

I know I'm going to get massively slammed for this, but why do we call Baba Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale Sant? He was a great man, but so were Baba Deep Singh, Bhai Taru Singh, Baba Fateh Singh, etc.

I'm not saying this is wrong, because I am nobody, who am I to pass judgement on these people who have achieved the greatest thing a human being can? I just want to know why

[papidas]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH ||

IF WHAT I SAY IS WRONG LET ME KNOW BUT YOU SEE IN DIFFERENT TIMES IN GURSIKH HISTORY WE HAVE USED DIFFERENT TERMS THAT MEAN THE SAME SUCH AS GURSIKH SANT BRAHAM GIANI BHAI SAHIB ETC THEY ALL MEAN THE SAME THING BUT DIFFERENT RRAS LEAD TO DIFFERENT SPEECH GURBANI IS TEACHING US HOW TO BECOME GURSIKHS BRAHAM GIANIS AND SANTS.

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH ||

[Deep87]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH ||

IF WHAT I SAY IS WRONG LET ME KNOW BUT YOU SEE IN DIFFERENT TIMES IN GURSIKH HISTORY WE HAVE USED DIFFERENT TERMS THAT MEAN THE SAME SUCH AS GURSIKH SANT BRAHAM GIANI BHAI SAHIB ETC THEY ALL MEAN THE SAME THING BUT DIFFERENT RRAS LEAD TO DIFFERENT SPEECH GURBANI IS TEACHING US HOW TO BECOME GURSIKHS BRAHAM GIANIS AND SANTS.

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH ||

if it has to do with different times in history why do we still use bhai and not sant for everyone. why just a select few.

[Deep87]

I know I'm going to get massively slammed for this, but why do we call Baba Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale Sant? He was a great man, but so were Baba Deep Singh, Bhai Taru Singh, Baba Fateh Singh, etc.

I'm not saying this is wrong, because I am nobody, who am I to pass judgement on these people who have achieved the greatest thing a human being can? I just want to know why

i agree. he was a great man and a amrit dhari i don't think he would have called himself a sant. i could be wrong.