Getting To God

[kullykhalsa]

this is a post carrying on from a previous post in gupt section

I was always under the impression that sikhi pescribed to the opinion that if your a good sikh christian muslim then you will get to god(sachkand)

I do not believe that sachkand is full of only sikhs; or only accepted people 500 years ago

Opinions welcome this is a place to debate

[VanHelsingh]

From past debates on this very site I've learned that from 1699 onwards entry to Sachkhand is only permissable by taking Khande Di Pauhl. Also, Sachkhand is not a concept found in other religions. What Christians call heaven, etc., are actually lower (compared to Sachkhand) planes of existence which are temporary homes; only Sachkhand is permanent.

That's the gist of what's been discussed before but I've summarised it rather briefly. :biggrin2:

[N30S1NGH]

Thats bullocks...This whole idea of sachkhand only accessible/permissible by amritdhari singhs came with bhausaria and its revisionist ideology of Sikh Dharma. I have fought by maharaj kirpa to the teeth with bhausaria panthis and will continue to do so...whats next? sachkhand made out of sarbloh doors?..i wouldn't be suprised as teja singh singh bhausaria change vahiguroo mantar to make it more tat khalsa oriented!!

All mystic traditions of all dharams (i.e christians- gnostic, muslims- sufi, hindu- umberalla of orders believing in nirgun paratma- sarabvypak atma-paratma etc) have potential to merge with god - sachkhand, they all have named differently but its same..!! Most sikh bhramgyani saints believe sachkhand is sanjha to all (including sant hari singh ji randhawale who is on record on saying krishan maharaj is in sachkhand), not just reserved to sikhs (who these days, love to debate and love to live in glorious concepts and past including me at times, but hardly make any effort to go towards sachkhand).

Out of all mystic traditions, clearly gurmat is distinct and an short cut way to get to sachkhand..!!

What is sachkhand?

Gurmat supports meta reality, based on your spiritual surti and perception- . Sackhand is both- in form of baikhunt is real realm and sachkhand - state of mind- avastha is nirgun chaitan bhram- sarab vypak (one's intituation totally merged with all prevading vahiguroo). Both are parvan in Gurmat, no one is inferior to one another..!

Here is sufi version of sachkhand, its from sant waryam singh ji ratwara sahib wale divan:

1. Valley of Search(Wadde-a-Tallash)- Where one searches for murshid.

2. Valley of Love (Wadee-a-Ishaq) - Where one finds murshid and start doing seva of murshid with pyaar

3. Valley of Knowledge (Wadeea-Marfat) - One feels existence of Vahiguroo, but one didn't fully realize it

4. Valley of meditation or Ibadat (Wadee-a-Mehveat) - Where one gets naam leev there surti start hearing naam dhuni full force.

5. Valley of Unity (Wadee-Wehdeeat) - Where one started slowly realizing Vahiguroo and me are ONE.

6. Valley of Bliss (Wadee-a-Noor or Wadee-a-Hairam)- Where one gets maha anand, vismaad avastha

7. Valley of merger in God or Allah (Wadee-A-Finah-Fillah) - Where one gets merge with Allah by kirpa or help by Guru sahiban. Ekta with Vahiguroo.

Sufis beleive all dharam have four stages.

1. Shariat Rituals

2. Trikat - the way of worship for inner mind's purification

3. Marfat means knowledge

4. Hakikat- means realization of supreme reality.

[VanHelsingh]

Any links to more information on the Singh called Bhausaria? Never heard of him. :blush2:

[N30S1NGH]

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/32348-danger-of-bhausaria-mindset-in-the-panth/

[VanHelsingh]

I was thinking about this topic a bit more last night, and I was wondering that for someone who follows any of the Abrahamic religions to get into Sachkhand, then surely that person would have to disregard the core concepts of their own religion in order to do so? Like I said in another thread I think a non-denominational yet spiritually attuned individual might be naturally predispositioned towards a belief in God and related matters without being tied down to a particular faith.

So to use a rather laboured analogy (I'm all about the laboured analogies, lol) how can someone hope to pass their exams with an A, if all they are studying is how to get a B at most? Or is the purity of intention of the devotee (of any faith) the key rather than the nitty-gritty of the belief itself?

BTW on a personal level I'm very happy with Sikhi. I feel it's the best path for me. There's no doubt on my part but there are wider discussions to be had which are rather compelling. By having these debates and discussions does not suggest a wavering belief in one's own faith. I know some people like to jump to conclusions on this site so I thought I'd make that clear from the outset. :cool2:

[kullykhalsa]

core concept of all abrahamic religions is the belief in 1 god (sounds familiar)

If you read other scriptures you can see in them that essentially the core message is the same be kind, be good, do good deeds out of the worlds major religions sikhi is similar to most of their core principles

I think the analogy your using is flawed the correct analogy to use would be that all religions followed properly and with pyaar will get you an A, Sikhi is essentially pass plus easier/quicker to get an A in

[N30S1NGH]

Kalyugi Veer,

In general we should be careful being "authoritarian" on other dharam theology without looking and studying at other dharams in depth. I think most of us look at other dharam outer layer and start jumping the gun. It's kinda like same - person from other dharam looks at our sikh dharam via lense of sikh missionary who believes - main aim for sikh is to good human being and do seva (as they don't beleive in naam simran) nor they beleive in heaven/hell/reincarnation and sachkhand and they think thats sikh beleif. Off course, mystic traditions of all religions are not very popular because of 80% of so called dharamis/religious people are nothing but bunch of goons have hijacked their own dharam for their own ideological war fare, political gains, you know herding and controlling like minded sheep mentality so they can have power. Religion is like commodity for these guys..!!.

We are quite lucky all though we have maryada- rules as well- Sikhi start itself or present itself as a mystic tradition than your typical "ism" Victorian version of religion (regardless of bhausari attempts) as i said earlier-

Out of all mystic traditions, clearly gurmat is distinct and an short cut way to get to sachkhand..!!

With that being said, one could still hold an right position, consistent with all samparda's and saint orders in Sikhism that -sackhand is not exclusive to sikhs!!

[VanHelsingh]

Hey I never said I knew it all (or even a bit)! Great discussion.

@ N30SINGH - Yes you're right brother, I do have an unfortunate habit of focusing on the minority negative representatives of a faith and assuming they speak for the rest. Something to work on I guess.

[HDSH]

*pst* Don't let bijla singh see this thread