Nirvkaalaap Saamadhi

[N30S1NGH]

Great video posted by pal07. It's pretty similiar to Gurmat thought, veil between you(individualistic mind) and your own real self (atma-paratma) is ego, once ego veil is destroyed by naam simran, nishkam seva, bairaag and prem, you merge with your own real self- atma-paratma

Here is sant baba isher singh ji maharaj rara sahib in its gyan saroop expressing freely in his dairy and atam hularey pustak:

~ Self Reflection ~

Travelling your own inside ..ripping through all the thoughts/intellect.

Na Mein Teen Sarer Ho

Na Mein Teen Gunas Ho

Na Mein Paach Kosh Ho

Na Mein Mann Ho, Na Mein Chit Ho, Na Mein Buddh Ho, Na Mein Ahankar Ho

Mein Gyan Saroop Atma Ho

Atma Sat Hai

Atma Chit Hai

Atma Anandsaroop Hai

Atma Sakhi Roop Hai

Atma Dristha and Updristha Roop Hai

Jagrath Vekha Mein Ho

Soopan Vekha Mein Ho

Sukhopat Veekha Mein Ho

Din Daie Samie Mein Ho

Dopher Daie Samie Mein Ho

Sandhya Daie Samie Mein Ho

Rat Daie Samie Mein Ho

Tin Mahane Vich Mein Ho

Roota Vekhaie Mein ho

Tasie Bal Avastha Vich Mein Ho

Tasaie Javan Avastha Vich Mein Ho

Viradh Avastha Vich Mein Ho

Esaie Mein Atma-Paratma Ho, Meri Atma-Paratma Sab Mein Haien....Sarabvyapak Hai

Atma Saroop ~ Sat Chit Anandsaroop Hai ~~

Sirf Mein(Atam) Mein Hai-

Mein vo haa jis vich "MEIN(KHUDI)" Bhi Nahi Hai

Ekta of Atma-Paratma also discussed in gurbani many times..Here is an small glimpse:

As gurbani says:

Atam Paratama iko Karaie Antar Ki Dubta Antar Maraie ||

Atam Chinish Paratam soi ||

Atam Ras Neh Jannehi Sio Haie Khalas Dev,

Prab Meh Mo Meh Tas Meh Ranchak Naeh Bhaiv || (Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji to his Khalsa)

Sab Gobind hai, Sab Gobind Hay, Gobind Bin nahi koi ||

~~ Meri Mujko Namaskar Ho~

~~ Iko Nirakar Nirvkalap Parmanand Chinmat Chidakash Advait Kaival Kaivali ~

Vahiguroo Ji Ka Khalsa

Vahiguroo Ji Ki Fateh !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[N30S1NGH]

In Gurmat the full milaap is done between bhagti, gyan and Shabad Surat (Naam). Shabad Surat, Gyan and Bhagti Marg are blended together in one. Gyan, Bhakti, Shabad surat marg are together in Gurmat not separate, those who seperate the above and wrap their head and idiolize one of concept above and try to confine with one aspect of sikhi are devoid of Gurmat. Khalsa incorporates all of them in their daily life, because there are concept of Shabad Surat bhagti, gyan, advait(non duality of mind), sargun vahiguroo- our guru sahib, prem, seva, guru kirpa, nirgun, bairaag, gyan , hakum, raza, naam(shabad gyan), gyan (atma-paratma), all listed in Gurbani...how can we seperate them?

[Consciousness]

There are many disadvantages (limiting factors) if people infer that sackhand is a place where one goes to with identity intact then the (jeev or sukhsham sareer) will be limited in size unless they totally occupy everything and others there would be consumed/crowded by each other, limited power etc they are bound by location and are NOT omnipresent (as it is made out to be the earth is not sachkand but a separate khand). 'They' are not limitless this implies a disadvantage compared to what I understand and what gurmat believes which is that sackhand is everything no limits - omnipotent and omnipresent - Only God is and NO OTHER.

Only truth (sackhand) people saying that sachkand is some sort of place do not know the infinite potential of gurmat naam. For (God) sachkand (OBJECTIVE TRUTH) to be a place (which it is not) it must be acknowledged by an individual (I) e.g. I am seeing that floating gurdwara in sachkand. There has to be duality between the perceiver and the object.' Gurbani is against dual consciousness please do a search on ‘durmat’.

Essentially in any place where 'one’s' attentive consciousness is still stuck in form 'name and shape' is an illusion (maya). How will one tell the difference between themselves and God? Also the false notion of identity is kept of the person in sachkand then surely they still would have a mind and we are all know a mind is a limited instrument in itself I.E you can only have one thought at one time and have a limited capacity of knowledge. Also with any name and form it is bound by time, which we all know waheguru cannot be (akaal moorat) because if any action that occurs in sachkand (place) will occur in apperceived time i.e there would be a memory of past, present actions because if there were no actions in that place then sackhand would have no action, no one speaking etc. This identity is only a burden and a disadvantage.

Also the fear of losing consciousness is downfall amongst seekers – they don’t want identity to be gone and want to remain eternally to experience the ‘bliss’. But this is inaccurate and involves blind faith on a false notion of consciousness being permanent. Scientifically or with veechar one needs to look into how the consciousness arouse. For consciousness to be permanent it has to be eternal and remain 24/7 throughout every moment/second. We know this can be proved wrong because it does not remain as in swoon/ unconscious/ deep sleep or in subconscious there is NO consciousness and the world is NOT. So then we can argue that if consciousness itself is temporary and the same consciousness (person) goes to sachkand then how can we have a full experience of sackhand when our own identity is our downfall for ever lasting experience.

Beyond this who remains to enjoy the anand.... Like in deep sleep there is no consciousness and some people are trying to make there consciousness permanent thinking that it is eternal when in deep sleep and even subconsciously it is not. Letting the unconscious and subconscious (consciousness is a slave to the subconscious) take over means a death an annilation of experience. Really we are always dead it is the conscious part of the brain (reaction between neurotransmitters), which only comes temporarily that gives the inference of individuality and doership - that I exist and I WILL GO SACKHAND. It's all utter rubbish there is no one to go sachkand as there is only sachkand.

People try to make the I (consciousness) eternal so 'they' can experience the anand and go sachkand. When in reality 'they' are an illusion – and the illusion is trying to escape the illusion – what a paradox! Basically no one wants to die but only dying is eternal!!!

Another factor is that the mind is not permanent and it is made from experiences that one gets during their lifetime and something that is not eternal cannot have a permanent identity here after – to prove this point a blind person from birth has no visual thoughts throughout their life he/she just apperceives darkness. While a deaf person from birth can see form and name but has never heard a sound. So this shows that one’s identity are made from this lifetimes experiences. So the mind/memory/ ego are learnt traits that were picked up from the surroundings by the five senses. While the truth (Sachkand) exists prior to the learning period. So since the mind (where identity is made) is temporary it cannot ‘go’ to sachkand.

Furthermore some people proclaim that the suksham sareer (mental/astral body) is what is permanent and the sukhsham sareer is the identity of a person with kesh (hair) and this identity is taken to sackhand but this sounds rather presumptuous as Gurbani mentions reincarnation and then was the same sukhsham sareer in a monkey or an ant? Also say one person obtains the human body and but does not realise the Lord and then says he is born again as another human body, which sukhsham sareer has he got and which will enter sachkand? If the sukhsham sareer enters sachkand it must be changeless and permanent and it just doesn’t make sense if the above theory is believed. That would make one particular astral/human identity as a truth, which I believe is subject to guess work, fantasy and opens a doorway to a myriad of questions that sprout from a false believe.

Also since God/sachkand resides in ALL even in an agyani (ignorant devoid of naam/Ignorant of God being their true mool) then when kirpa is done the same changeless, permanent avasta must have already been present in the ignorant but missed or ignored, which the concept of non-identity supports while if the perception changed into another realm/place (mistaken as sachkand) then this is a change in ‘reality’, which cannot be correct as God is aadh sach, jugaad sach etc he is always true and ones underlying root prior to perception, learning, inference, apperception and even consciousness must have been true – while sackhand being a place and one retaining identity does not support hence this theory is subject to error.

Carrying on with a false pretence of identity remaining then one would further make an assumption that Guru and God are separate. Some people to support this thinking say they are not separate but Guru ji is inside of waheguru and his identity is but is not noticeable to the naked eye. This statement is laughable for any identity to remain the perceiver must have a permanent consciousness and we have already discussed above that this is not possible. Really Guru/Satguru is another word for God (a synonym not a similarity). Some further state that when Waheguru created creation, before it He created Satguru - Waheguru appointed/created Satguru before creating the entire creation. This is false because then there is a notion of two (duality). Mistake is being made between waheguru’s nirgun and sargun aspect making them independently separate – when they are really one and the same and are dependent on each other.

Hopefully this write-up has been helpful to prove that identity of one is not and since there is no identity then God/sachkand cannot be place that has independent people in it. However if one still wants it to be a place or wants to believe in permanent identity of individual then carry on doing so as you’ll be seriously disappointed. All in all having an identity is only a limitation and this would make sachkand limited in experience when in reality Gurmat sidhant is much greater than this make belief (manmat) view of sackhand.

[PAL 07]

I have a question are there several forms of samadhi ie nirvikalap samadee and some other and also what is the mere mortal understanding we have of brahmgyaan because i know that there are several stages of brahmgyaan such as the level of ridhi sidh and then bedehee mukat etc

Interestingly if you look at the life of Swami Ramana Mahapursh you see that they had no brahm vidiya ie studying vedas etc. Also notice that they didnt go through all the stages that a normal jagyasu persaon would go through such as firstly keeping rehat, then studying Gurus vidiya and then seva and simran and nitnem and then bairaag and then prema baghti. However one thing that is always essential to any mahapurk that has ever walked the planet you see that at some point they have acquired some form of gyaan and that this gyan has led them to self realization. Swami ji never had any physical Guru the concept of death was enough for them to begin self inquiry, then they pretended to enact themselves dying and this was enough for them to realize their true form........The life of Swami Ji has had a profound effect on me, before my favourite saint was Baba Nand Singh Ji but Swami Ji, just looking at the photos of them have an amazing effect on you. They spent their whole life in one place. The only teaching that Swami Ramana Maharishi ever gave was that a person should do self inquiry ie close all his senses and travel on the path of self inquiry

[PAL 07]

[N30S1NGH]

I have a question are there several forms of samadhi ie nirvikalap samadee and some other and also what is the mere mortal understanding we have of brahmgyaan because i know that there are several stages of brahmgyaan such as the level of ridhi sidh and then bedehee mukat etc

Please see- picture attached on four types of samadhi. It's from sant isher singh ji rara sahib dairy.

Ridhi sidhi is much lover stage than bhramgyan.

As far as i understood it, Bhramgyan is one. Bhramgyani depending on the nature can live its life in jevan mukht avastha or bedah mukht avastha.

This is must listen. Please listen to audio by sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale regarding characteristics of Jevan Mukht and Bedah Mukht. Basically people who cannot understand punjabi...i will try to explain as much my buddhi can:

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Man_Budh_Atam/08--Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Aatma.Ki.Hai.mp3

(From 80.55 minutes until end)

Jevan Mukht- A person who is jevan mukht stays in sehaj avastha, have double consciousnesses, can engage in worldly duties because their sattvic mind(satoguni mind) is still there to do parchar/spread love/kindness to this world, rajo and tamogun portion of mind its destroyed.

Bedah Mukht- A person who is bedah mukht can only survive days, they are in nirvkalap samadhi(non transcendental meditative state), they have totally negate their mind (made of rajo, tamo, sato), antish karan, there is no coming back, they cannot do kriya on their own, their disciples try to feed them just to keep them alive to see them in smadhi.

Interestingly if you look at the life of Swami Ramana Mahapursh you see that they had no brahm vidiya ie studying vedas etc. Also notice that they didnt go through all the stages that a normal jagyasu persaon would go through such as firstly keeping rehat, then studying Gurus vidiya and then seva and simran and nitnem and then bairaag and then prema baghti. However one thing that is always essential to any mahapurk that has ever walked the planet you see that at some point they have acquired some form of gyaan and that this gyan has led them to self realization. Swami ji never had any physical Guru the concept of death was enough for them to begin self inquiry, then they pretended to enact themselves dying and this was enough for them to realize their true form........The life of Swami Ji has had a profound effect on me, before my favourite saint was Baba Nand Singh Ji but Swami Ji, just looking at the photos of them have an amazing effect on you. They spent their whole life in one place. The only teaching that Swami Ramana Maharishi ever gave was that a person should do self inquiry ie close all his senses and travel on the path of self inquiry

Swami ji life is amazing, you can tell they are bhramleen in sat chit anand saroop of Vahiguroo Ji. It all depends on previous kaamiya of previous lives- some need small spike and they get bhramgyan.

Please read the following sakhi of sant aya singh ji hoti mardan giving kirpa to sant jawla singh ji harkhowale

refererence: The Radiance of complete journey to Akaal Purkh

chapter- Sant baba Aiya Singh Hoti Mardan giving divine sermons( on love) to Sant baba jawala Singh Ji.

What is love?

Love: Love is the divine law. It will win where reason fails.

God is love and love is God.

It is to surrender one's self to the beloved and giving away own heart and moving like a bewildered person. If you want to know about love, then ask love itself. Do not ask anybody else, he will not answer !. Only love knows how to describe itself lovely. It will explain pretty well what it is. True love means to give up possession or self. Until ego is renounced no one can find that path of love. Cleanse your heart, like a mirror(glass) clear and simple. So long heart has imprints of lust one cannot see the face of love. Love gives life to humans, true love negates greed, Kabir sahib says: Everybody talks about love, yet no one expereinces love. Only such a person knows love, as remains, imbided in it day and night. If love came and gone, everybody saw it but if one cries now then laughs next moment, it is not love.

Shalok Mohalla 4 (p-301)

My body and mind are ever imbued with my lord's love,

Be though merciful, O god, that I Abide in Guru's peace. (1)

God's love grants such a high vision that to even a helpless that he does not care about the kings(Master of corwn) and throne, lover weaves gorgeous clothes like attish and kim khwab with the blood of his heart and spreads under the feet of his beloved. Only lover can help someone to reach God's court and attaining to such a position is real ascention to God's place(Heaven). If you want to read the true story of ascention of love then look at the face of some true lover. From his face, one can have the glimplse of love. In love, Gardens of happiness bloom in heart's blood. Lovers are always absorbed in God's love. On this path several mansoors turn down worldy honours and choose to kiss the crucifixion instead. How can one gain the wealth of divine love? Without guide's instruction it is not possible. Only some one with large heart can win this with God's grace. How to recognise love? If you find someone lost in despair and disheartned he is deviod of love. He does not belong to the realm of love. Even though studded with thorns, a lover is always happy like some body in garden in spring. Find not such a one lonely because he is always in God's embrace. Should I offer Nimaz (Muslim prayer) or look in your way? How can I visit kahba (God's place in holy mecca)

Bulleh shah

The Nimaz of memories lie in bowing down before God and lovers Nimaz in forgetting one's body.

Ablution of memories is in washing hands and feet but lover's ablution is washing hands off the world. Unless you take your hands off the worldy tempations do not remember God because without Wuzzo, Nimaz is not acceptable in Islamic Code(Shria).

Having delivered such lovely sermon, sahib siri baba aiya singh ji hoti mardan waley threw glance towards the sipahi(jawala singh). Lover had filled his goblet of heart with love..tears of joy began to role down his face and his head tilted towards baba ji's feet. Eyes of mind became Ganga-Jamuna and he washed baba ji's feet with tears. It was like his own heart cleaned up.. his forehead got blessed with baba ji's feet touch. The way of love began to rise in his heart and his tongue un-intentionally moved in meditation. Glands of knowledge opened up. Heart began to feel coolness of love. Light flashed up. Six close cycles(chakars) turned up. Petals blossomed up. Unstruck melodies became aloud. All hair turned into tongues and every single hair changed into divine word. He began to realise all around. Baba Aya Singh Ji merged jawala singh ji into sargun-nirgun. There was flood of light all around. Having done this miracle, Baba Ji again came into being and turned jawala singh to an saint. He lifted him from his feet, took him in embrace and asked, "Now tell me, do you know me or not? "Jawala Singh began to weep in low and said, "By your grace, I have come to know of my real self. I am thankful to you I have realised that I have been your servant since many births. You are my mentor(Murshid). Then Baba Jawala Singh became silent. Baba Aya Singh Ji thus turned sipahi into saint and blended him into his own being.

Grace of Give commandmends given by Baba Ji:

1. Remember God breath by breath

2. Never be egoist.

3. Keep company of those detached from the world.

4. Do not Beg.

5. Be aloof.

Sant jawala Singh Ji listened to the commandments and dutyfully observed all throughout life.

[PAL 07]

Thankyou N30 Singh i need to study all of this thread it is very good.

[luckysingh99]

This thread needs to be bumped.

I have noticed a lot of discussions where some of us are stuck at sargun aspects, and maybe this could help invoke a little self-realization !

Even if it answers the call and questions of just 1 member, then that itself would be a blessing.