SADEE MANZIL KHALISTAN!!!

[Taran]

Khalsa fauj... I doubt you just woke up with the gian to read Guru ji's bani and understand it all..

So who did you have santhia off, and where??? I'm just curious.

Gurfateh.

[Sewadar]

Khalsa Fauj - Don't talk about Dasam Granth anymore. Read Forum Guidelines before posting such topics/replies.

This is the first and last warning !

Thanks - 1

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

taran,

for such a huge ghalughara there is not much evidence left of the attack...there are just a handful of pictures of shaheeds...the akal takhat photo is obviously going to be there because the sangat had to rebuild it so pictures would have been taken. I have a lot of family in punjab, and you would be surprised that so many people in Punjab do not know the extent of the damage that was done because not much is available to see. All the pictures and documentaries that we have in the west, i showed my relatives and they were just shocked...

badal and his party even fixed much of the bullet holes in the water towers around darbar sahib, the gov'ts have done as much as possible to cover up the acts of 1984.

I don't understand why you are getting so upset, for such a big operation in my view there has been a very good coverup, first of all we all have that one or two pics of a destroyed akal takhat sahib, and a handful of pics of shaheeds....

i think you are really upset about my sant ji coming back bit rather than this issue....

anyways peace brother...

[Taran]

mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan..

for such a huge ghalughara there is not much evidence left of the attack...there are just a handful of pictures of shaheeds...

Yes but it still happened.. And what evidence would you think there would be after 20 years?!?!

The evidence remains in peoples thoughts and in their minds.. When you do ardas, the shaheeds of the panth are remembered then, so people should be reminded then.

you would be surprised that so many people in Punjab do not know the extent of the damage that was done because not much is available to see. 

A lot has changed in punjab sikhi wise.. since the gurus' times.. Not all for the better.

But i do agree that it was hard to show punjab what had happened with the media boycot before.

badal and his party even fixed much of the bullet holes in the water towers around darbar sahib

I doubt Badal or his party did anything

.. they are just money and power hungry people, who have no interest in the best interests of sikhi.. It was the sevadars of the panth who built Amritsar back up, not the backstabber Badal!

Many people say we should get rid of badal, but if he does go before his time, then he has groomed his son to replicate him so the whole thing wil start again... And he runs Akali Dal and basically SGPC, so all religious and political interests of sikhs in punjab.. And he is a V.corrupt man.. But aswell as that we have Bibi Jagir Kaur and Joginder Singh Vedanti.. These people dont help matters.. But these matters cant be overcome in a day..

I don't understand why you are getting so upset, for such a big operation in my view there has been a very good coverup, first of all we all have that one or two pics of a destroyed akal takhat sahib, and a handful of pics of shaheeds....

I wouldn't really say im still upset about the issue, it happened and i acknowledge that, It does anger me that it happened and i am upset at the amount of people sikhs, innocent women and children that died.. ARE YOU NOT UPSET?!

What coverup?! 20 years have past and people have moved on.. There is no sinister coverup.. just some wounds have healed over time and some have not..

And we have much more than a few pics of the Akal Takht destroyed and a "handful" of pics of shaheeds..

We have the lives of these great gursikhs.. to read about, video footage from before and after, stories of people that were there, pictures, statements and we remember these great gursikhs in our prayers daily.. what more do you want?!

i think you are really upset about my sant ji coming back bit rather than this issue....

Firstly.. You think wrong, secondly i am uspet by this issue.. Y would i be upset about Sant Ji comming back?! Everybody has their views and they are entitled to these.. I have mine and you have yours.. I dont say i am right or that you are. But in regards to Sant Ji.. I have my views and time will tell if im right or wrong.. Either way i dont understand why this is such a talked about topic?? Time can be much better spent doing Paath, and reading gurbani.

Gurfateh.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"I doubt Badal or his party did anything.. they are just money and power hungry people, who have no interest in the best interests of sikhi.. It was the sevadars of the panth who built Amritsar back up, not the backstabber Badal!"

dude i think you are not getting my post, when i said that badal has fixed the bullet holes it means that he did it so no reminders of the attack are left, those bullet holes should have been left in the surrounding fixtures because it is a reminder to sikhs about operation bluestar, you think that i mean that badal did a great seva by doing this well then you have completely misread my post.

[V]

What I said is a fact. No lies. They do Vipran Ki Reet. Joats, Naareeals, own maryada, oppose Nanakshahi calendar, oppose jhatka, do katha of hindu scriptures, place akhauti dasam granth at same level and beside Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Lie by saying Sant Ji is not Shaheed when even his dead body has been photographed.

Orite, obviously u got an agenda with DDT, which is why u tend to bash and slander them in each and every post u make!

Fair nuff they do soem stuff which is Biran ki reet according to Panth, but talking as if they havn't doen any seva at all - let me tell u one thing - they doine a LOT of seva,a s it's a SIKH SCHOOL.

secondly u spoek about CASTE in the other post about ythem not allowing dalits in - again thats not true, or even close to the truth, Daas went to Mehta and was granted permission to stay there a few days to do Santhiya the days i was there, I didn't stay too logn due to being there a short time - but they hardly knew ANYTHING about me - tha's how muhc lvoe they got - they knew which country i'm from, and whcih city in Panjab i'm from, my age and tah's about it , let alone about caste, they never even bothered to ask about it, not tha i'd respond if they askd - but point being they didn't evne know me and the accepted me to stay there without even knowing me as their intention is one -

teaching Santhiya Gurbani and the message of the Guru to EVERYONE., I suggest you get your facts straight.

They do Vipran Ki Reet. Joats, Naareeals, own maryada,

yeah according to panth it't not ccepted - but most other stuff u noted are contreversis in Panth

oppose Nanakshahi calendar,

so?

they've got a full reason may'be u shoudl listen to it before commenting?

oppose jhatka,

a lot of PANTHIK jathebandis do it

AKJ, TAKSAL, HARIAWALA NIHANGS etc

do katha of hindu scriptures,

not because they think it's fun - bt becauser they teach SANSKRIT from it, and not scriptures - a SCRIPTURE, however most emphisis is put on GURBANI

go and ask them urself!!!

First u do Santhiya of 5 Baniya, then 5 Grania, then 10 Granthiya, then Bhagat Bani, the WHOLE GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI Maharaj , then Dasam Granth - only after THAT do they teach u sanskrit ofr anything

place akhauti dasam granth at same level and beside Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

wouldn't call it 'Akhauti' if i was u

secondly it's a SIKH SCHOOL, they teach the recitation of Dasam Granth

may'be that's why?

Lie by saying Sant Ji is not Shaheed when even his dead body has been photographed.

contreversy in panth - which i wont speak about, however tha being saidI re-call a neutral SIngh (not a taksali) from the forum saying -

IF Babab Jarnail Singh ji was Shaheed and his Shaheed body was found then why did the police take reports so seriously where people claimed to have seen ababa ji, why did the cops take it so seriously?

now stop spreading hate

Personally I'm neutral as I don't ahve any link with taksal or taksalis and am basing on personally experiences.

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[10th regiment]

Ex-SP confirms Bhindranwale’s death

Varinder Walia

Tribune News Service

Amritsar, May 19

In government records, Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, head of Damdami Taksal, is a dead man.

Even as the acting chief of Damdami Taksal, who succeeded Bhindranwale, had recently claimed that he (Bhindranwale) was in high spirits and would re-emerge at an appropriate time yet it is a fact that he was killed on June 6 along with Bhai Amrik Singh, the then president of the All-India Sikh Students Federation, Maj-Gen Shabeg Singh (retd) and Baba Thara Singh during the infamous Operation Bluestar in 1984. His body was recognised by his brother, Subedar Major Harcharan Singh Rode (who retired as a captain), the Superintendent of Police and a battery of police and civil officers in the presence of the military.

The controversy over the death of Sant Bhindranwale has assumed significance as the Sikh high priests found themselves in a dilemma after the announcement by 10 Sikh radical organisations that they would organise bhog ceremony of the sant at Akal Takht on June 6 to coincide with the 17th anniversary of Operation Bluestar. The family members of Sant Bhindranwale have left the issue of his death to Akal Takht and Damdami Taksal. However, the matter is getting complicated with each passing day.

However, Mr Apar Singh Bajwa, the then DSP (City) at that time, gave startling information about the Army operation, the death of Sant Bhindranwale and the removal of more than 800 bodies from the Golden Temple complex.

When the TNS team approached Mr Bajwa he showed reluctance in speaking on this sensitive issue. However, after much persuasion Mr Bajwa started givin

g first-hand information.

Though the body of Sant Bhindranwale was recognised by his brother and an SP officially yet the help of Mr Bajwa was sought unofficially as he knew the sant and leaders of Damdami Taksal and militants as he remained the main investigator of the Sikh-Nirankari clash on April 13, 1978.

Mr Bajwa said as part of his official duty he had met Sant Bhindranwala and leaders of the Taksal hundreds of times. Though the late Rajinder Singh, the then SP, was head of the team constituted to investigate the Sikh-Nirankari clash yet he (Mr Bajwa) did most of the investigations.

Mr Bajwa, who retired as SP in 1995 after meritorious service (he received the President’s Police medal in 1980), revealed the Army had full control of the cremation ground near gurdwara Shaheedan and the Punjab police personnel and civil officials were not allowed to enter the cremation ground. Mr Ramesh Inder Singh, the then Deputy Commissioner (now Principal Secretary to the Chief Minister) who was posted on June 3, Brigadier Talwar, Brigadier Chadda, Pt Harjit Singh the then SP (CID) and Army personnel in thousands were present at the time of cremation.

He said when querried by Army officers he recognised the body of Bhindranwale who was injured on the right side of the face. He had bled profusely in the abdomen. He said on his personal request the Army officers agreed to cremate the bodies of Sant Bhindranwale, Gen Shabeg Singh, Baba Thara Singh and Bhai Amrik Singh as per Sikh rituals while the rest of the bodies (the number must be more than 800) were cremated en masse.

Mr Bajwa said the Army allowed him to cover the body of Sant Bhindranwale with a sheet and pour ghee on it. He said curfew had been clamped on the entire district when en masse cremation took place. He said the government media, including All India Radio and Doordarshan, had announced the death of Sant Bhindranwale in the evening itself. The official announcement also stated that the cremation of the sant was done as per

Sikh rituals. The Army had also released the photograph of the body of Sant Bhindranwale (though unofficially) to a leading English news magazine.

Mr Bajwa said he was deputed by the district administration to supervise the cremation of bodies from the Golden Temple premises.

Mr Bajwa said there was not an iota of truth in the allegation that Sant Harchand Singh Longowal, Mr Gurcharan Singh Tohra and other leaders had surrendered before the Army at the time of Operation Bluestar. The fact is that the Akali and AISSF leaders, including Sant Longowal, Mr Tohra, Mr Harminder Singh Gill, now AISSF president, Mr Harinder Singh Sandhu, the then general secretary of the AISSF, Mr Amarjit Singh Chawla (now member of the Punjab Public Services Commission) and Bhai Rajinder Singh Mehta were gheraoed by the military and then bundled into waiting Army trucks. While senior leaders like Sant Longowal and Mr Tohra were taken into camp jails, the second rung leaders were taken into the Army School which was also converted into a camp jail.

Mr Bajwa revealed that the family members of Sant Bhindranwale had approached him through someone to know the truth about two months ago. He said he had clearly told the messenger that he was a witness to the death of the sant. “After that, the family members never approached me,” he said.

[Taran]

Firstly.. Mr Singh.. I agree.. khalsa fauj has got many issues, including a vandeta against DDT.. amongst others.

Secondly.. 10th regiment.. That little clip above.. proves what exactly??

In government records, Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, head of Damdami Taksal, is a dead man.

"In government records".. June 1984 was legal and there was nothing wrong in their eyes.. job well done they think.. Is that what is in "your records" also???

"In government records".. Putting sikh naujwan in jails and torturing them is ok.. under TADA.

"In government records".. No one is guilty of 84 delhi riots.. (rape, torture, ethnic clensing)

DO YOU STILL BELIEVE THESE RECORDS TO BE TRUE????

Mr Bajwa said there was not an iota of truth in the allegation that Sant Harchand Singh Longowal, Mr Gurcharan Singh Tohra and other leaders had surrendered before the Army at the time of Operation Bluestar

The fact is that the Akali and AISSF leaders, including Sant Longowal, Mr Tohra, Mr Harminder Singh Gill, now AISSF president, Mr Harinder Singh Sandhu, the then general secretary of the AISSF, Mr Amarjit Singh Chawla (now member of the Punjab Public Service

s Commission) and Bhai Rajinder Singh Mehta were gheraoed by the military and then bundled into waiting Army trucks

Ha ha ha.. Thats funny.. These lot were sitting in the army camp drinking tea and having a laff together.. with brar, sundarji, dayal, vaidya..

gurfateh..

[Taran]

the quotes got a bit messed up then.. the big quote in the middle is my reply..

[10th regiment]

i never said it proves anything. just posting some info on the story

it includes sant jis brother harcharn singh rode who identified his own 'dead' brother

more info: on Bhai Ram Singh as chief of the taksal????

Bhindranwale ‘continues’ as Damdami Taksal chief

Prabhjot Singh

Tribune News Service

Chandigarh, June 20

By claiming that Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale continues to be the chief of the Damdami Taksal, its officiating chief, Baba Thakur Singh, in a statement from San Jose in California today has not only refuted the claim of Bhai Ram Singh as the 15th chief of the taksal but also given a new twist to the controversy over the grant of “martyr’s status” to the sant.

Only a couple of weeks ago, various sects and organisations, including a section of the taksal, had accepted Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale’s “sacrifice for the Panth” and granted him the status of a “Sikh martyr”. Even members of the family of the sant had accepted that he was no more.

In a written statement faxed to The Tribune and his subsequent telephonic conversation with this correspondent Baba Thakur Singh maintained that Bhai Ram Singh was never appointed chief of the taksal.

Bhai Ram Singh is currently in the USA and expected back on July 2 when he is scheduled to take over. Only yesterday, various Panthic organisations and sects, including the descendants of Sant Kartar Singh Bhindranwale, had hailed the appointment of Bhai Ram Singh as the next chief and held that there would be no “formal dastar bandi” to mark his taking over as taksal chief as all such rituals and formalities had already been completed in the USA in the prese

nce of Baba Thakur Singh. Bhai Ram Singh is a nephew of Sant Kartar Singh Bhindranwale.

“He was only appointed a caretaker of a few gurdwaras run by the taksal. Bhai Ram Singh, members of his family and some aides, however, twisted the facts and declared himself to be the 15th chief of the taksal. Bhai Ram Singh is greedy and selfish. He should not have done that,” said Baba Thakur Singh holding that even the “dastar of the Damdami Taksal chief is still with Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale.

“It is only he who can appoint his successor. I am only officiating in his place,” he added.

“Keeping in view the manner in which Bhai Ram Singh has conducted himself, we have decided to withdraw the caretaker’s charge given to him. All gurdwaras for which the charge was given to him would now be looked after by other taksal workers.

Taksal leaders maintained that since Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was “alive”, there was no question of accepting him as a “martyr”.

Baba Thakur Singh, by reiterating his claim as the real acting chief of the Damdami Taksal, warned Bhai Ram Singh and members of his family “not to indulge in this kind of low activities.”

“I appeal to the entire Sikh world not to be misguided by a few traitors and assure you that the taksal is discharging its religious duties under the existing setup,” Baba Thakur Singh said.

Talking to The Tribune over the telephone from the USA, Bhai Ram Singh said it was Baba Thakur Singh, who had offered to appoint him as the next acting chief of the Taksal.

“I was in Los Angeles when some Taksal workers at Tracey Gurdwara requested Baba Thakur Singh to name his successor. They had in fact proposed names of Bhai Manjit Singh, Bhai Ishar Singh, Bhai Mohkam Singh, Bhai Ajaib Singh and Bhai Satbir Singh. Babaji said he would think about it. On June 16 when I reached Tracey from Los Angeles at midnight, Baba Thakur Singh called me in the morning and told me that he wanted to entrust me the sewa of the Taksal and extracted an

assurance from me that I won’t say no to him.

“Later, Baba Thakur Singh, in the presence of all those who were at the gurdwara presented a siropa, a shawl and a dastar and appointed me as the acting chief of the Taksal and promised to support me,” he said revealing that after his formal appointment, certain people started working against him.