Jump to content

did raja porus speak punjabi!?


Guest itsMe
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest Jacfsing2
On 2/16/2017 at 6:21 PM, Guest itsMe said:

wjkk wjkf

Just wondering did raja porus speak punjabi!? just been reading about the history of Punjab recently.

No, he would have spoken Sanskrit since he was an elite, the commoners would probably speak a language only vaguely similar to Punjabi as it wasn't very evolved at the time. Elites didn't speak Punjabi until the Sikh faith came and gave Punjabi a legacy: Sanskrit ruled the entire system especially among Brahmins, Khatris, Vaishas, and Shudras, (untouchables would be speaking a completely Adivasi language).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

No, he would have spoken Sanskrit since he was an elite, the commoners would probably speak a language only vaguely similar to Punjabi as it wasn't very evolved at the time. Elites didn't speak Punjabi until the Sikh faith came and gave Punjabi a legacy: Sanskrit ruled the entire system especially among Brahmins, Khatris, Vaishas, and Shudras, (untouchables would be speaking a completely Adivasi language).

wouldn't he have spoken Prakrit ? given that lower castes were forbidden from listening to the 'divine language' of sanskrit also the fact that Sanskrit was a literary language and Prakrit a speaking language with different dialects . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Jacfsing2
1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

wouldn't he have spoken Prakrit ? given that lower castes were forbidden from listening to the 'divine language' of sanskrit also the fact that Sanskrit was a literary language and Prakrit a speaking language with different dialects . 

Porus was a high caste; he also wouldn't be talking directly to his subjects, but rather had subordinates talking to the subjects for him; this led to him losing to Alexander the Great, cause he totally depended on a few Khatris instead of depending on his entire country. Compare this to the pre-Islamic Afghans who depended on each and every citizen to fight; and you can tell what the problem was in the structure, Alexander had to leave during the battle in Afghanistan because of them attempting to use everyone, (v.s only using an elite section of the population that even though they may have been better fighters could not be used productively).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Porus was a high caste; he also wouldn't be talking directly to his subjects, but rather had subordinates talking to the subjects for him; this led to him losing to Alexander the Great, cause he totally depended on a few Khatris instead of depending on his entire country. Compare this to the pre-Islamic Afghans who depended on each and every citizen to fight; and you can tell what the problem was in the structure, Alexander had to leave during the battle in Afghanistan because of them attempting to use everyone, (v.s only using an elite section of the population that even though they may have been better fighters could not be used productively).

prakrit is older and is the base of many other old languages like Pali and Marathi. If we are talking preislamic  afghans they would have been more likely to have ties to this as well Northern Indians

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Jacfsing2
9 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

prakrit is older and is the base of many other old languages like Pali and Marathi. If we are talking preislamic  afghans they would have been more likely to have ties to this as well Northern Indians

Let's take this out of India and compare it to another nation's king: King John of England; who was known for not really caring about the people, the language he spoke would be similar to Dutch, (his predecessor was known for not actually staying in his kingdom.) Also since he really was seperate from the people some Robin Hoods stood-up trying to fight the system: (some of these Robin Hoods became Shaheeds).

 Also if there is no Sikh religion which is the only true religion; why would any royalty speak the language associated with commoners?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...
Guest AjaySekhon
On 2/18/2017 at 3:05 AM, Guest Jacfsing2 said:

No, he would have spoken Sanskrit since he was an elite, the commoners would probably speak a language only vaguely similar to Punjabi as it wasn't very evolved at the time. Elites didn't speak Punjabi until the Sikh faith came and gave Punjabi a legacy: Sanskrit ruled the entire system especially among Brahmins, Khatris, Vaishas, and Shudras, (untouchables would be speaking a completely Adivasi language).

No you’re wrong language of that region at the time & era was persian ! sanskrit was language of the south & east ! the reality is harsh but accept it , sanskrit was not spoken by western part of india at the time !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/19/2017 at 12:14 AM, Guest Jacfsing2 said:

why would any royalty speak the language associated with commoners?

don't the uk royal family speak English?  don't the Japanese royal family speak Japanese?

why did Queen Elizabeth 1st even bother watching a Shakespeare play if she didn't care about English?

Do you think historically, Maharaja Ranjit Singh didn't speak punjabi?  How did he listen to 'commoners' if he didn't speak it?

Even the last moghul king spoke punjabi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest jigsaw_puzzled-singh

Oh dear. Why did someone have to ask this question. I'm not welcome in these parts no more and I don't even come here - I'm just passing through - but there's no way I can't not say something. So:

No. They didn't speak Punjabi at that time.

No. They didn't speak Sanskrit or Prakit in Punjab at that time.

Yes and No. They could converse in old Persian very easily but it wasn't their everyday language.

Aramaic ?   I don't know but my guess - given the ancient inscriptions found in Punjab - is that they spoke the same language as Jesus, i,e Aramaic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/1/2021 at 1:52 AM, Guest AjaySekhon said:

No you’re wrong language of that region at the time & era was persian ! sanskrit was language of the south & east ! the reality is harsh but accept it , sanskrit was not spoken by western part of india at the time !

is this a troll post?  you have a hindu name.

have you even heard modern persian, let alone ancient persian?  how much of it can you understand?

sanskrit was spoken in north indian at that time.   (Punjab is north india, not west.  west is Gujirat).

Porus spoke the ancient version/ precendant of 'punjabi'.  

by the way Prakit is not a language.  Prakit means 'natural' in Sanskrit.  Prakit is any natural language- e.g. punjabi, hindu, english.   

And Sanskrit was not used for everyday conversation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • WJKK WJKF Sangat Ji, I bought a brand new medium Artisan Kirpan (8.7 inches) from https://thekhalsaraj.com/products/black-g10-ultra-durable-kirpans 2 months ago, and it is in unused condition. I bought it 2 months ago and it is in unused condition, with everything that came with it still fully sealed. I even paid extra to get it ੴ ਸਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ  laser engraved on the blade. This cost me £370 including shipping from the USA. It is in brand new condition, but I no longer need it since I have been gifted a new Buddha Dal-made Pesh Kabz for free. I am selling it for £250 even though it is in brand new condition - it is a first-hand Kirpan. From the official website, it costs £370. The handle is indestructable G10 fiberglass, wielded to a razor sharp blade (edge and tip) which is engraved with the custom Gurbani. Please reply if any Singh/Kaur here would like to buy it - it's 100% first hand but £120 reduced price. Includes a an embroidered padded case for airport travel, a blank certificate of ownership, maintenance brochure and a beautifully decorated black/grey adjustable Gatra.   I sent this advert out to a few places, and also asked some retailers if they'd like it, so it may go soon. Please do reply if anybody is interested, more than happy to answer questions too! (Note: the pic is from Google but is exactly what the Kirpan and Gatra both look like - the one I have is still in the packaging).    
    • WJKK WJKF Sangat Ji, I bought a brand new Artisan Kirpan (pic below) from https://thekhalsaraj.com/products/black-g10-ultra-durable-kirpans. It is the medium option (8.7 inches). I bought it 2 months ago and it is in unused condition, with everything that came with it still fully sealed. I even paid extra to get it ੴ ਸਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ  laser engraved on the blade. This cost me £370 including shipping from the USA. It is in brand new condition, but I no longer need it since I have been gifted a new Buddha Dal-made Pesh Kabz for free. I am selling it for £250 even though it is in brand new condition - it is a first-hand Kirpan. From the official website, it costs £370. The handle is indestructable G10 fiberglass, wielded to a razor sharp blade (edge and tip) which is engraved with the custom Gurbani. Please reply if any Singh/Kaur here would like to buy it - it's 100% first hand but £120 less than normal. Comes with a padded foam case for airport travel, a blank certificate of ownership, maintenance brochure and a beautifully decorated black/grey adjustable Gatra.   I sent this advert out to a few places, and also asked some retailers if they'd like it, so it may go soon. Please do reply if anybody is interested, more than happy to answer questions too! (below's a pic of the exact model, but not the Kirpan I have, as it's still in its box. I've only unsheathed it once to inspect it, and I can confirm it's in perfect condition).        
    • WJKK WJKF! How long will this forum remain online for in a readable & accessible state? It appears susceptible to shut-down. It would be a shame if all the forum's content from over the decades is lost in such an event due to servers hosting this forum shutting-down. This forum, whilst not currently active, remains an important repository of the Sikh religion online. It also is a fundamental aspect of Sikh cyber culture that existed from the early Internet period from the 2000's to 2010's before the domination by big social-media sites that consolidated the community. Thus, have the web-masters of this forum considered archiving this forum's contents before it is lost forever? I can assist you in this by saving the content to the Internet Archive on your behalf. Please let me know your thoughts about such an endeavour and I hope you may consider the possibility of archiving the forum for posterity. Future generations of Sikhs and Sikh researchers will be grateful. Kind regards, Theth Panjabi (you can find me on IG at theth.panjabi and on X/Twitter at ThethPanjabi)
    • Video on the tale, gurdwara, and manuscript: link As the story goes, during the Vadda Ghallughara genocide against the Sikhs perpetrated by the Afghan Durrani Empire on 5–6 February 1762, not only were Sikh lives lost, but our original Damdami Sahib Bir recension was also lost in that carnage. However, over the years I have spent researching our history, many claimed it was taken back to Afghanistan by Ahmad Shah Abdali's troops as loot whilst others said it was secretly hidden somewhere by the Singhs for safe-keeping. As of today, it remains untraceable and I presume it is gone for good. However, I came across a couple of articles stating that there were actually around five master-copies of the original Damdami Bir, with one of these copies being safeguarded by the jatha of Bhai Sudha Singh of the Shaheedan Misl. "It is said that the tenth Sikh master Guru Gobind Singh had got five birs written at Damdama Sahib. The bani (writings) of the ninth Sikh master Guru Tegh Bahadur were incorporated in these birs. These five birs were given to different jathas (groups) of Sikhs by Guru Gobind Singh to be safely installed. One bir was being taken by Sudha Singh who was leading a jatha of 19 Sikhs, when Abdali'[s] forces stormed Kup-Rohira and killed thousands of Sikhs. Though all 19 Sikhs were massacred by Abdali, Sudha Singh somehow brought the bir to Kuthala. Since then it has been kept at village gurdwara." (Times of India, 2012) The gurdwara today [Gurdwara Shaheed Baba Sudha Singh Ji in Kuthala] has a certain historical manuscript that they claim is one of the five master-copies of the Damdama recension. You can see close-up shots of the bir in the video posted. I will also share close-up images of its folios in the comment section. I will also provide a faithful English translation of the video's narration so non-Punjabi speakers may benefit from this post. I will leave the question on whether this bir is authentic or not to your judgement but I will provide my own analysis below.   English translation of the video's narration: The Guru-form Guru Khalsa Holy Congregation (Sadh Sangat) Ji, Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. The Gurdwara Sahib that the congregation is currently beholding is situated in Village Kuthala, near Malerkotla, in the Sangrur district of Punjab. A very great treasure is preserved within this Gurdwara Sahib. The history of this Gurdwara Sahib is very closely related to the Vada Ghalughara (The Great Holocaust) that took place in February 1762. Baba Sudha Singh Ji, the third head of the Shaheedi Misl, arrived at this location considering it a safe place. He brought with him that sacred holy scripture (Saroop) which the Tenth Father, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, had personally dictated to Bhai Mani Singh Ji on the holy land of Damdama Sahib. Upon arriving, he personally performed the last rites (cremation) of 19 martyred Sikhs at this site. As he prepared to leave to take command of the Jatha (the Sikh contingent), the sacred holy scripture he had brought was enshrined at this very location. At that time, this place was known as Dera Jaga Sidh, but nowadays, a very beautiful building stands here in the name of Gurdwara Sahib Shaheedi. The sacred holy scriptures that were enshrined at that time are today ceremoniously displayed (Prakashwan) with great respect every Channi Dashmi (the tenth day of the bright lunar fortnight) for the congregation to behold. Devotees from within the country and abroad arrive to catch a glimpse of these sacred scriptures and receive the Guru's blessings. Every year, an annual Gurmat Samagam (religious congregation) is held for five consecutive days in memory of the martyrs of the Great Holocaust, concluding on Magh Sudi Dashmi. Furthermore, a book containing the full detailed history—titled after Shaheed Baba Sudha Singh Ji and the Hand-written Holy Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji—was released in February 2013 by the managing volunteers based on historical research. It was released by the 14th head of the Shaheedi Misl, Singh Sahib Baba Makhan Singh Ji (the current head of Baba Bakala Sahib), the Meet Jathedar Singh Ji, and Sant Gurdev Singh Ji of Anandpur Sahib (the current head). The congregation can obtain spiritual benefit by reading it. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.   My analysis: In my humble opinion (which may be incorrect), this bir is not a master-copy of the Damdami Bir. It more closely resembles the highly-decorated birs of the Kashmiri-style that were created during the reign of the Sikh Empire in the first half of the 19th century. We can see this bir has highly illuminated and illustrated angs (folios), which took the great skill of a master artisan to make, which required resources to pay and patronize. Usually, the manuscripts during the Sikh Empire were the most elaborately decorated, as this was when the Sikhs were at a high-point, masters of the land, possessing vast amounts of resources that they could use to fund such endeavors. Therefore, whilst the story may be true and a master-copy of the Damdami Bir recension may have once been at this location, I am not convinced that this particular manuscript is it. I may be mistaken and I am open to constructive criticism. 1633648456_GurdwaraHistory.mp4
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use