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    • Coming from a Sodhi family iv seen Sodhis having to be carried out of reception parties at the end because they are so drunk they can't walk! cracking alcohol bottles open with karas, sleeping around the town and i have to stop there because it gets to embarrassing! I was thinking about this the other day, Ithiaas is obviously to learn from and everything the gurus did and that ithiaas records is for us to learn from. If the Gurus own sons and family didn't follow them and rejected their beliefs then why are we so surprised when Sikhs do the same today. The reason that happened and was recorded in our ithiaas is for us to learn and realize that there will be cases where your kids will rebel against your dharam.  Baba Sri Chand ji when he met Guru Ramdas Ji he started laughing at Guru Jis beard and asked Guru Ji why he has kept it so long, If this happened to our own Guru ji then why are Sikhs surprised when our own families laugh when we decide to keep a Sikh appearance, once again theres a reason why this incident between Guru Ji and Baba Chnad Ji happened. Everything that happened in our Ithiaas is to learn from and realize it can happen to us as well and it does happen.  Guru were like setting scenarios with everything to show us the same will happen to us too!  and look   it does happen ... 
    • William Franklin 1798-1803 Seiks are remarkably fond of the flesh of the jungle Hog, which they kill in chance, this food is allowable by their law. They likewise eat of mutton and fish, but these being deemed unlawful, the Bramins will not partake, leaving those who chuse to transgress their institutes to answer for themselves. In the city or in the field the Seiks never smoke tobacco; they are not however averse to drinking spirituous liquors, in which they sometimes indulge to an immoderate excess; 
    • It happens. It proves you're brain is functioning. I wish that people's loyalty was rewarded by "proof." It makes so much difference, and makes the tough times and a confused and chattering humanity easier to bear.
    • some nihangs drink alcohol even today and there r some old British sources which says that Singhs drank liquor back then too. 1809-- Asiatic Annual Register by E Samuel A Sikh wanting to become a Singh, finds no difficulty in accomplishing his proselytism. He goes to the Akali, or priests of the sect, at Amritsar, who ask him if he wishes to become a convert to their persuasion, and if so, to produce proofs of his determination ; upon which the convert breaks with his own hands, the small thread, or cord, worn across the shoulders by most of the Hindoo sects, and after the performance of certain ceremonies, he is given to drink a sherbet made of sugar and water, from the hand of an Akali. After this initiation, he never shaves his beard, nor cuts his hair, and ought not, according to a rigorous observance of the doctrines, to pair his nails, but that is dispensed with, though contrary to the rules of the lawgiver. Now become a Singh, Ire is heterodox, and distinct from the Hindoos, by whom he is considered as an apostate. He is not restricted in his diet, but is allowed, by tlie tenets of his new religion, to devour whatever food his appetite may prompt, excepting beef. He is allowed also to drink every kind of liquor, such as the Singhs. The Sikhs are those, who (if originally Hindoos,) together with the peculiar tenets and observances prescribed to the sect by its founder, Nanak, retain firmly the institutions of their faith, in strict conformity to the doctrines of Brahma
    • Yeah i agree you need sharam in the traditional sense to have an interest in dharam. Like i was raised with those traditional values, and when i did go slightly of track in my early 20s, i still knew about those boundaries and values, even though i was not following them. Like Bhai Jagraj Singh he had a traditional upbringing, went of the rails but came back. I really don't see that as westernized  just typical Punjabi lads really   just like how they are back home, messing around but still have a understanding of what sharam and boundaries that you don't cross. Now on the other hand you have parents who are really westernized, by westernized i mean coconuts, gora-fyed, they then raise their kids in the same way, they have no understanding of sharam or boundaries. As kids we used to go around my cousins house for their birthday parties, and they used to have relatives around their house from the other side of the family and these people mums, dads, daughters, sons all used to get drunk together and be walking into the walls by the end of the party! These people have very little chance of getting into sikhi! if these lot do get into Sikhi then it probably will be like the 3HO type The first lot i described, who had a traditional upbringing and may start drinking, still have a more chance of getting into Sikhi then the second lot i described. In fact most younger people that been getting into sikhi in the last 10 years or so have been people whose parents are from india and they had a traditional upbringing. Those traditional values really need to be there, so even if you go of the rails later in life you still know what sharam is.   As for spreading Sikhi, tbh if you look at other faiths then depending on which part of the world it is they all have interpreted the faith according to their culture. Like look at Christianity and how diverse it is depending on which part of the world it is in. I have a white Christian friend and a Black Christian friend and they could not be anymore different in practice!  Even Islam, in south asia Islam is heavily influenced by Sufi culture, as much as they are trying to change it it still is heavily influenced by Sufi culture. Same will happen with Sikhi too, depending where in the world it is spreading the local cultures will influence it ...
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