How many of you believe in the mystical ? Is the world we see merely a projection of the mystical ?

[Guest]

You see this theme happening everywhere in sikh history , and beyond it as well. You will find it present in Ratan Singh Bhangu's chronicles as well , in the kathas of prominent sikhs,  as well as  other sources, and yet its one aspect that despite present everywhere is sidelined quite quickly and not given any due attention. Its about the "mystical" or how actions in the physical plane bring consequences especially when those actions are done by someone significant.

For instance , 

Guru Gobind Singh ji plucking a weed plant with his arrow and saying "Mughal empire has been uprooted" . What would you make of that ? how can uprooting a mere weed growing around the roadside cause a dominating strong empire to buckle. But we know it did happen .  What happens when a small plant is uprooted ? it doesn't die quickly . It withers first, turns yellow then and finally dies off. It doesn't happen in a day. It takes a few days, but the death is slow and gradual. If you notice , the same thing happened with mughals after the death of aurangzeb, they wilted gradually with the later emperors having no real power but merely warming  a ceremonial seat. Infact it wasn't until the last mughal emperor Bahadur Zafar in the year 1857 or so that Mughal empire "officially" died . but its death process was initiated with Guru Gobind Singh ji's plucking action. What transpired in the mystical domain reflected in the temporal / political one.

Ratan Singh Bhangu in his Panth Parkash mentions something similar at more than one instance. 

At one point he mentions muhammad (prophet of islam) being asked to leave his divine portal in the court of lord for what his rulers were wrecking on earth : 

While many were crushed between spiked wheels or hanged,
Many others were blown up by cannon fire or sliced with knives.
While many were crushed to death with conical clubs,
Many others were drowned and dragged to death. (3)
All those who were buried alive, hanged or blown up,
It is difficult to keep a count of thousands of them.
Including all those who were made to sit in lines,
In order to chopp off their heads with the swords. (4)
While the hands and legs of a few of them were chopped off,
Eyes of a few others were gouged and others’ skin peeled off.
Whosoever was spotted out with the hair unshorn,
Was eliminated irrespective of being an infant or an adult. (5)

When there was persecution of the Singhs on a mass-scale,
There was a hue and cry of protest from all sides.
The voices of this public outcry rose so high,
That these reached and knocked at the Divine court. (7)
This led to God Almighty’s summoning of Prophet Mohammad6 ,
And being ordered to sit outside the Divine portals.
Since the members of his religious order had gone astray,
He was refused admittance into the Divine abode. (8)
Since the twelfth century Muslim era had elapsed,
The next century belonged to the Khalsa Panth’s dominance.
Since his religionists had indulged in so much evil,
They must perish through their own internecine feuds. (9)
So when it came to be ordained by the Divine will,
The Mughal rulers of Delhi had to face harassment.
Perishing through their own internal dissensions and feuds,
They themselves invited (an Afghan invader) Nadar Shah Durrani. (10)

 

In another incidence he mentions the episode of Guru Nanak dev ji and Babur , and Babur's wish to have a glimpse of prophet muhammad , and upon meeting muhammad, Babur asks muhammad's blessing for eternal rule over india which is rejected by muhammad himself saying rule over india belongs to Guru Nanak:

 

Babur said he had approached Guru Nanak with a fond wish,
That the great Guru be Babur’s spiritual mentor.
Babur begged for a sovereignty over the Indian throne,
So that his writ might run over the twenty-two states. (52)
Chaupai : Upon this Baba Nanak reminded the supplicating Babur,
That the latter wished to be made a sovereign by Prophet Mohammad5 .
Admitting that Prophet Mohammad being inaccessible,
Babur expressed his inability to seek Prophet’s (Mohammad’s) blessings. (53)
Since his prophet was inhabitant of the Divine Court,
It was located across the seven skies (in heavens).
How could Babur (a human being) reach that Divine abode,
About which he had heard but never seen it with his eyes? (54)
The Guru reminded Babur that he had boasted of being an emperor,
Whose writ ran over half of humanity on the earth.
How could he not reach his Islamic Prophet Mohammad,
As he boasted of having the powers of five spiritual prophets? (55)
Promising Babur to enable him to reach his prophet,
The Guru directed Babur to seek sovereignty from his own prophet.
Babur should reach the Divine Court in his prophet’s company,
Where his prophet would get a written sanction for his sovereignty. (56)

......

Thereafter taking Babur to his (Islamic) prophet’s enclosure,
The Guru’s staff showed him the Muslim cleric reciting an Islamic prayer.
Babur was shown a glimpse of his Prophet’s standard,
Which had not been dyed in blue for a long time. (72)
There was situated a mosque, place of Muslim worship,
That was designed as per Prophet’s own tradition.
As Babur had a glimpse of his spiritual prophet Mohammad,
He started prostrating and supplicating before him. (73)
Prophet Mohammad himself was seen praying to God,
Entreating the Divine Lord to accept his supplication.
Behind him stood his foremost intimate devout followers10 ,
Followed by thousands of other Muslims spiritual saints. (74)
Directing Babur to stand in the queue at the back,
The Guru’s staff informed Prophet Mohammad about Babur’s visit.
Summoning Babur from the back to his own proximity,
Prophet Mohammad asked Babur about the purpose of his visit. (75)
Babur pleaded to be blessed with a sovereignty over India,
So that his writ might run over the twenty-two Indian provinces.
Instantly did Prophet Mohammad reject Babur’s plea with a remark,
That He had no divine sanction for granting a sovereignty over India. (76)

 

So whats ur opinion on these mystical things ? Do they decide reality ? 

[Guest]

@MisterrSingh would like to know your views as well 

[mahandulai]

29 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

You see this theme happening everywhere in sikh history , and beyond it as well. You will find it present in Ratan Singh Bhangu's chronicles as well , in the kathas of prominent sikhs,  as well as  other sources, and yet its one aspect that despite present everywhere is sidelined quite quickly and not given any due attention. Its about the "mystical" or how actions in the physical plane bring consequences especially when those actions are done by someone significant.

For instance , 

Guru Gobind Singh ji plucking a weed plant with his arrow and saying "Mughal empire has been uprooted" . What would you make of that ? how can uprooting a mere weed growing around the roadside cause a dominating strong empire to buckle. But we know it did happen .  What happens when a small plant is uprooted ? it doesn't die quickly . It withers first, turns yellow then and finally dies off. It doesn't happen in a day. It takes a few days, but the death is slow and gradual. If you notice , the same thing happened with mughals after the death of aurangzeb, they wilted gradually with the later emperors having no real power but merely warming  a ceremonial seat. Infact it wasn't until the last mughal emperor Bahadur Zafar in the year 1857 or so that Mughal empire "officially" died . but its death process was initiated with Guru Gobind Singh ji's plucking action. What transpired in the mystical domain reflected in the temporal / political one.

Ratan Singh Bhangu in his Panth Parkash mentions something similar at more than one instance. 

At one point he mentions muhammad (prophet of islam) being asked to leave his divine portal in the court of lord for what his rulers were wrecking on earth : 

While many were crushed between spiked wheels or hanged,
Many others were blown up by cannon fire or sliced with knives.
While many were crushed to death with conical clubs,
Many others were drowned and dragged to death. (3)
All those who were buried alive, hanged or blown up,
It is difficult to keep a count of thousands of them.
Including all those who were made to sit in lines,
In order to chopp off their heads with the swords. (4)
While the hands and legs of a few of them were chopped off,
Eyes of a few others were gouged and others’ skin peeled off.
Whosoever was spotted out with the hair unshorn,
Was eliminated irrespective of being an infant or an adult. (5)

When there was persecution of the Singhs on a mass-scale,
There was a hue and cry of protest from all sides.
The voices of this public outcry rose so high,
That these reached and knocked at the Divine court. (7)
This led to God Almighty’s summoning of Prophet Mohammad6 ,
And being ordered to sit outside the Divine portals.
Since the members of his religious order had gone astray,
He was refused admittance into the Divine abode. (8)
Since the twelfth century Muslim era had elapsed,
The next century belonged to the Khalsa Panth’s dominance.
Since his religionists had indulged in so much evil,
They must perish through their own internecine feuds. (9)
So when it came to be ordained by the Divine will,
The Mughal rulers of Delhi had to face harassment.
Perishing through their own internal dissensions and feuds,
They themselves invited (an Afghan invader) Nadar Shah Durrani. (10)

 

In another incidence he mentions the episode of Guru Nanak dev ji and Babur , and Babur's wish to have a glimpse of prophet muhammad , and upon meeting muhammad, Babur asks muhammad's blessing for eternal rule over india which is rejected by muhammad himself saying rule over india belongs to Guru Nanak:

 

Babur said he had approached Guru Nanak with a fond wish,
That the great Guru be Babur’s spiritual mentor.
Babur begged for a sovereignty over the Indian throne,
So that his writ might run over the twenty-two states. (52)
Chaupai : Upon this Baba Nanak reminded the supplicating Babur,
That the latter wished to be made a sovereign by Prophet Mohammad5 .
Admitting that Prophet Mohammad being inaccessible,
Babur expressed his inability to seek Prophet’s (Mohammad’s) blessings. (53)
Since his prophet was inhabitant of the Divine Court,
It was located across the seven skies (in heavens).
How could Babur (a human being) reach that Divine abode,
About which he had heard but never seen it with his eyes? (54)
The Guru reminded Babur that he had boasted of being an emperor,
Whose writ ran over half of humanity on the earth.
How could he not reach his Islamic Prophet Mohammad,
As he boasted of having the powers of five spiritual prophets? (55)
Promising Babur to enable him to reach his prophet,
The Guru directed Babur to seek sovereignty from his own prophet.
Babur should reach the Divine Court in his prophet’s company,
Where his prophet would get a written sanction for his sovereignty. (56)

......

Thereafter taking Babur to his (Islamic) prophet’s enclosure,
The Guru’s staff showed him the Muslim cleric reciting an Islamic prayer.
Babur was shown a glimpse of his Prophet’s standard,
Which had not been dyed in blue for a long time. (72)
There was situated a mosque, place of Muslim worship,
That was designed as per Prophet’s own tradition.
As Babur had a glimpse of his spiritual prophet Mohammad,
He started prostrating and supplicating before him. (73)
Prophet Mohammad himself was seen praying to God,
Entreating the Divine Lord to accept his supplication.
Behind him stood his foremost intimate devout followers10 ,
Followed by thousands of other Muslims spiritual saints. (74)
Directing Babur to stand in the queue at the back,
The Guru’s staff informed Prophet Mohammad about Babur’s visit.
Summoning Babur from the back to his own proximity,
Prophet Mohammad asked Babur about the purpose of his visit. (75)
Babur pleaded to be blessed with a sovereignty over India,
So that his writ might run over the twenty-two Indian provinces.
Instantly did Prophet Mohammad reject Babur’s plea with a remark,
That He had no divine sanction for granting a sovereignty over India. (76)

 

So whats ur opinion on these mystical things ? Do they decide reality ? 

Watch the film GLASS

that just came out

[MisterrSingh]

2 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

@MisterrSingh would like to know your views as well 

Logic would dictate two outcomes: based on my own personal experiences I am either suffering from a mental illness of some sort, or there is "something" of the unseen out there, and despite what the world and its people would tell you, there's more to existence than what we've been lead to believe. I'll let you decide which of the two choices is the truth, lol.

As for the mechanics and the "logic" behind it all, I wouldn't pretend to know how any of it works. It's a mystery to me. I have my theories but they're nothing more. Some of it tallies with what others have noted, whereas some of it differs wildly from traditional thought even in esoteric circles.

I wouldn't give this subject too much thought. As much as it's an exciting or interesting topic, there's very little we can do in a practical way that can affect much of what happens. Believe in the Creator, abide by His rules, and get on with your life. I'm honestly tired of even contemplating this aspect of existence. Let's just say the game is unfairly stacked against the players who have no intentions of playing dirty. For those who have no conscience on the other hand...

Don't make me expand on the above. I have no wish to discuss this issue any further.