Redemption in Sikhi

[genie]

Is there any crime or sin in Sikhi that would be seen as unforgivable?

I know in the janamsakhis Guru Nanak Sahib Ji is mentioned to have forgiven and reformed alot of infamous evil characters even mass murdering man eaters.

 

So I was thinking if the Guru Sahib can forgive and reform evil doers is there any crime us Sikhs would not forgive? and how would we justify harsh punishment for heinous crimes if our own Guru's forgave mass murderers?

 

[H908]

Ive heard that the only that dont get forgiven are aghritkan or those that aren't appreciative, thankful or remember maharajs bakshish

[singhbj singh]

ਕਉਨ ਕੋ ਕਲੰਕੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਰਾਮਨਾਮੁ ਲੇਤ ਹੀ ॥

kaun kō kalank rahiō rām nām lēt hī .

Whose stain of sin, pray, ever lingers, who uttereth the Lord's Name?

(ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਦਸ) ਰਾਮ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਦਿਆਂ ਕਿਸ ਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਦੋਸ਼ ਰਹਿ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ? 

ਪਤਿਤ ਪਵਿਤ ਭਏ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹਤਹੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ 

patit pavit bhaē rām kahat hī .1. rahāu .

The sinners become pure by uttering the Lord's Name. Pause.

ਰਾਮ ਦਾ (ਨਾਮ) ਕਹਿੰਦਿਆਂ ਹੀ ਆਚਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਡਿਗੇ ਹੋਏ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਭੀ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਹੋ ਗਏ।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।

http://www.khojgurbani.org/shabad/index/718/1941/author-4-bhai-manmohan-singh/nonePan/language-gurmukhi?alias=ਕਉਨ+ਕੋ+ਕਲੰਕੁ+ਰਹਿਓ+ਰਾਮ+ਨਾਮੁ+ਲੇਤ+ਹੀ+॥

[Sat1]

On 4/16/2020 at 3:04 AM, genie said:

I know in the janamsakhis Guru Nanak Sahib Ji is mentioned to have forgiven and reformed alot of infamous evil characters even mass murdering man eaters.

 

So I was thinking if the Guru Sahib can forgive and reform evil doers is there any crime us Sikhs would not forgive? and how would we justify harsh punishment for heinous crimes if our own Guru's forgave mass murderers?

 

The legal system is in place for a reason. We are all just sinners really, some more deluded and making worse choices than others. 
 

Guru Nanak accepted that people are free to make their own choices and that everyone is at their own stages of evolution. So we detach from the rubbish and focus on ourselves and own lives, and accept that all is perfect and as it should be in each moment.
 

To accept that we ourselves are not perfect, to let it be, not get angry, and teach when it’s called for. I avoid bad eggs, and let it be in acceptance, but I teach others out of their own crap when it’s called for. 
 

[genie]

18 minutes ago, Sat1 said:

The legal system is in place for a reason. We are all just sinners really, some more deluded and making worse choices than others. 
 

Guru Nanak accepted that people are free to make their own choices and that everyone is at their own stages of evolution. So we detach from the rubbish and focus on ourselves and own lives, and accept that all is perfect and as it should be in each moment.
 

To accept that we ourselves are not perfect, to let it be, not get angry, and teach when it’s called for. I avoid bad eggs, and let it be in acceptance, but I teach others out of their own crap when it’s called for. 
 

Each legal system is subjective. One countries or ethnic/religious societies laws is different to another's. For example in hindu india harming a cow is a crime however in the west and muslim countries they kill and make food out of them. In muslims societies and their countries it states in islamic hadith scriptures leaving islam is seen as a huge crime and punishable by death in Sikh religion nothing of the sort is allowed.

Yes we are all sinners however your wrong if you think Guru Nanak Sahib Ji or any of the other Guru sahibans accepted everyone to make their own choices. Had he done that he would have let the man eater carry on eating humans, would have let the mughul emperor barbar and his troops carry on killing and people people. He would have let the hypocrite brahmin pundits carry on discriminating against the lower caste hindu's. He would have stood idly by while madness was going on around.

Yet spoke out challenged the narrative challenged the wrongful evil doers. And in return offered them spiritual redemption from their crimes by accepting they did wrong and to follow the righteous path.

Religious spiritual redemption is different from the temporal societal legal redemption. You can do a crime pay for it spending time in jail but you may believe you did nothing wrong because what you did wasn't wrong but society made it wrong because government created those laws to make it a crime. Such as peaceful protesting but you get nicked under various laws and your chucked in jail for being a troublemaker.

 

[Sat1]

17 hours ago, genie said:

Each legal system is subjective. One countries or ethnic/religious societies laws is different to another's. For example in hindu india harming a cow is a crime however in the west and muslim countries they kill and make food out of them. In muslims societies and their countries it states in islamic hadith scriptures leaving islam is seen as a huge crime and punishable by death in Sikh religion nothing of the sort is allowed.

Yes we are all sinners however your wrong if you think Guru Nanak Sahib Ji or any of the other Guru sahibans accepted everyone to make their own choices. Had he done that he would have let the man eater carry on eating humans, would have let the mughul emperor barbar and his troops carry on killing and people people. He would have let the hypocrite brahmin pundits carry on discriminating against the lower caste hindu's. He would have stood idly by while madness was going on around.

Yet spoke out challenged the narrative challenged the wrongful evil doers. And in return offered them spiritual redemption from their crimes by accepting they did wrong and to follow the righteous path.

Religious spiritual redemption is different from the temporal societal legal redemption. You can do a crime pay for it spending time in jail but you may believe you did nothing wrong because what you did wasn't wrong but society made it wrong because government created those laws to make it a crime. Such as peaceful protesting but you get nicked under various laws and your chucked in jail for being a troublemaker.

 

True, the legal system isn’t always entirely fair. Of course he spoke out, hence why I said teach when it’s appropriate. He went to Mecca and taught.. can you imagine the fearlessness... who would even dare to do that today.

With regards to your post, I was saying that mass murderers, cannibals, thieves etc are punished today in civilized societies. Although many may not be detected in third world countries where legal system can be less evolved. We are fortunate to at least have these in place in the countries we live in. I have been around many from third world countries and they have it incredibly tough, we are lucky.

No sin is unforgivable as God forgives in every moment, before we even commit the misdeed. But we pay our dues, as we sow, so we reap. The law of karma applies throughout the universe.