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Real Sikhs have no caste.

Gurbani has an answer for non Sikhs like you ( stop pretending to be a Sikh, you are just a casteist mindset ignorant individual who has no understanding of Sikhi. Those having the false pride of caste are called "fool" and "ignorant" in the Gurbani. To put it otherwise, as the Gurbani indicates, those who practice caste distinction and feel pride of their belief in Jaat-Paat are foolish and spiritually ignorant beings. ਜਾਤਿ ਕਾ ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖ ਗਵਾਰਾ ॥ ਇਸੁ ਗਰਬ ਤੇ ਚਲਹਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਵਿਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਚਾਰੇ ਵਰਨ ਆਖੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਿੰਦ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੨॥ ਮਾਟੀ ਏਕ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਭਾਂਡੇ ਘੜੈ ਕੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰਾ ॥੩॥ ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਦੇਹੀ ਕਾ ਆਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਘਟਿ ਵਧਿ ਕੋ ਕਰੈ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥: Jaat kaa garab n kar moorakh gavaaraa. Is garab te chalahi bahut vikaaraa ||1||Rahaaou||...: Do not be proud of your (higher or ਉੱਚੀ) Jaati, you ignorant fool! So much Bikaar comes from this pride. ||1||Rahaaou|| Every one says there are four Varan (four social classes or caste - Brahmin, Khatri, Vaish, Shoodar - but) all emanate from God's Seed (from One Light). ||2|| As the potter shapes all sorts of vessels, similarly, so is this entire universe (shaped from One Clay of God's Light). ||3|| The five elements join together, to make up the form of the human body. Who can say which has less (elements), and which has more (elements)? ||4|| (sggs 1127-1128).

Well explained!

There has recently been some nindaks here who are shamelessly doing Nindya against Brahmgianis and Kharkoo Shaheed Singhs. Such Nindaks also have a track record of using abusive language against other forum member's parents who defend Shaheed and Brahmgianis from their Nindya. Such Nindaks lower the standard of this forum.

Let us see a bit why Yogi Bhajan was not good at all, forget being a sikh, but even a decent human being. Following is an article written by Steven Hassan which I found on the net, and seems having credibilty: "The head of the empire, Yogi Bhajan, died in New Mexico in 2004 at the age of seventy-five. Born Harbhajan Singh Puri, he arrived in the U.S. in 1969. He soon renamed himself Yogi Bhajan. He said he was a well-known holy man back home in India. In reality, in India, Bhajan had been merely a civil servant, a customs inspector. Members of Yogi Bhajan’s group claim to be Sikhs. However, according to mainstream members of the religion, by adhering to the doctrine of Yogi Bhajan, they are violating more traditional Sikh teachings. Yogi Bhajan’s teachings are closer to a synthesis of Kundalini yoga, tantric and New Age practices than anything originating from Sikh teachings. The audacity of Yogi Bhajan’s claims makes this story particularly alarming. Bhajan taught, among other things, that he could see auras and see into the future. But perhaps his most outrageous claim was that he was the official religious and administrative leader of all Sikhs in the Western world. I am told that most legitimate Sikhs avoid any association with Bhajan’s group, and that Yogi Bhajanism is by no means representative of the five-century-old Sikh tradition whose homeland is in the Indian Punjab Former members with whom I have worked populate and tell their stories on a Delphi forum, “The Wacko World of Yogi Bhajan“. Over the past thirty years I have helped former members who alleged sexual and psychological abuse by and under Yogi Bhajan. There have been allegations of various criminal activities, and also Security Exchange Commission convictions of members of Yogi Bhajan’s inner circle. Several former students of Yogi Bhajan claim that when attempting to leave the group, they were threatened with violence. There is an unsolved murder of a member that is still under investigation, and also haunting suicides. There is more information on this fraud yogi bhajan which can be read on the following address:(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-hassan/the-disturbing-mainstream_b_667026.html), but the above evidences are more than sufficient to prove out how devlish was this fellow." *And to share a bit of light on the topic of the OP about what is a mantra, and its effects .... following are some basic points : Mantra is a Sanskrit word that consists of two parts: the root word man, which relates to thought, and the suffix -tra, which refers to tools or instruments. The word literally means “a tool of the mind” or “instrument of thought.” The word mantra is used to describe any thoughts, utterances, songs, or other sequences of words or sounds that are supposed to have spiritual efficacy or magical power. A mantra is defined as “a tool of the mind that has a spiritual effect on a person’s will or emotional state of being.” A mantra can be a religious or sacred prayer or chant, but it can also be a spell or supernatural weapon. Mantras are not specific to any one system of thought or religion. Generally,any utterance or thought that is believed powerful enough, to affect either the inward state of a person’s mind or the world at large can be called a mantra.

Oh, sorry for nominating you without asking, that goes for the other members I nominated too. The reason I nominated you was because there's some posts of yours that I liked that showed you have a calm approach towards some topics. That's the type of Mods, I felt the forum needs, those with knowledge of Sikhi and that won't take sides or start abusing others.

Thanks for the vote of confidence but without sounding egotisitcal have already turned down a previous offer as I'm no longer an active member here or any other forum for that matter, usually read the little I find interesting or comment where I feel strongly about something. My vote goes to @Jonny101 The reason is I like his posts the most. His understanding and knowledge is greater than mine and the vast majority of time I agree with his train of thought and well balanced Panthic soch.

WAHEGURU W - Wasudev H - Hari G - Gobind R - Raam

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru and Vaheguru as Shabad Guru/Gurbani teaches. In your ignorance you compare Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to an idol. Please stop reading half baked scholars verbal diarrhea as the truth. Adi Granth Sahib ji was placed on Baba Buddha ji head as Sri Guru Arjun Dev did chaur sahib over Adi Granth Sahib ji. Sri Guru Arjun Dev ji slept on the floor and Adi Granth took the bed. Such are the teachings of my Guru. Please don't take my Guru, Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji Bani out of context. Read the full pankti and Guru Sahib says don't see any difference between Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji and Vaheguru....paraphrase. Related Shabads from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and Dasam Bani on who is the Guru have to be taken to figure out the puzzle. Gursikhs, Gurmukhs, Sants, Brahmgyanis, Bhagats, Sikhs who writing are in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji all agree Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji is the Guru and Vaheguru (nirankar). I was just talking to someone about the shakti of Gurbani and saying only those can speak of Gurbani who have experienced the power and natural attraction. How a Sikh can hear clearly Gurbani coming from another Gursikhs mouth even though his lips are not moving. How both naturally draw to each other and enjoy each other presence in Vaheguru praise. Such are the blessed moments enjoyed. Such amazing feeling comes over the mind that can't be measured or explained. Vaheguru praise is so great. His miracles are so wonderful, his actions are so beautiful. We as mere ants can only beg to see his feet. How sweet his feet must be, the radiance, the glory, the magnificent view of his feet. How lucky are such Gursikhs who see his feet as they read Gurbani. Even the most evil minded people fall before his feet and ask for the greatest blessing of all. Bringing the mind to listen to his teachings in Gurbani. Over and over beating the mind till it gives up and falls at Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji feet. Such a difficult task done with Guru's grace is his glory alone. All victory belongs to him. No one else has a say in his doings. Continuously singing his praise is the only job of the householder. Beating the mind to recognize he is the only one who creates and acts is very difficult. The mind wants to say it has a permanent existence in this illusion. The mind does not realize Vaheguru is inside and out of the body. Even after recognizing this truth the mind wants to proclaim guruship. Believing it can reach the feet of Vaheguru. Such foolish acts are done in vain. Lost in the 3 gunas the mind begs for shells and loses sight of the jewel placed close to the shell. Without the jewel Vaheguru can't be found. His grace, peace of mind, love and praise is only received when the mind is placed before the feet of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and ready to follow every instruction. Give the mind to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and let him rewrite the minds programming. How can the mind recognize what it does not know about. Only the perfect instructor can teach the mind its mistakes and bring it to accept it has no power. Only the perfect instructor can teach the mind how to ask for and what to ask for and why. All praise belongs to him. His instructions are perfect and complete. Only he can teach who is perfect as Vaheguru. Others are only lost in their ego and babble on. Vaho vaho Bani Nirankar hai

It's got nothing to do with what caste one comes from. Those that think there are high and low castes, especially in this day and age really need to do some soul searching. It's not rocket science to understand what's being said about caste in the threads and numerous other past threads. If people want to cling onto their castes and be proud of it, then that's ego. Because there's nothing to be proud of a caste, it's the qualities of a person that one looks at, and not their caste, that's where the pride should be. Not, that they are from flana themkara caste. The Gurus never said they were proud of being so and so caste, so why should we? Something to think about ?.

Bani is like Medicine, Reciting certain lines of Gurbani wth devotion will remove pain (for example Dukh Bhanjan tera Naam Ji), Lines from the Dasam Granth's amazing Bir Raas banis will give you strength. But bear in mind, inside all of Gurbani, every single tukh there lies the ultimate goal of merging with the lord.

You're right I'm not of Jat Caste, I don't have a caste. I'd rather sit around with the so called "Shudra" than anyone else. Seek the company of the lowliest.

That's where you're wrong kiddo. Read the Taksali rehit or any rehitnama, you don't add your surname. There's the First name and the Second name, e.g Bhai Mani Singh Ji Cocky how? I'm the most forefront person on this forum when it comes to giving respect to Mahapurkhs, when I address Mahapurkhs I always use honorifics, I'm not even worth the dust at their feet and hang to every word they say. You're the one calling them liars by saying you don't believe Guru Sahib merged all the castes into one, just as they ascribed. So if you think they're Brahmgyanis then I hope you'll agree you're wrong because you can't have both ways. Well this is fun, so you claim your family taught your Santhiya, what did you make of Guru Sahib condemning those who cling to Caste as being hell bound? So much anger and rage. Are you upset that Gurbani doesn't agree with you? that Guru Sahib says people like you will head to hell if you don't change with your loyalty to caste?

They said that Guru Sahib merged the castes into one caste of Khalsa. So clearly if you don't believe that then they are liars by your standards. Shame. Sure then he'd do it for everyone in the world. So I asked you to tell me what castes Smith has. Sure I have a name, with the surname "Singh" at the end. I don't need a third name. I can change my name all I want. Clearly your family is so beyond maya. I mean sitting and listening to the Punj Pyare about destroying their caste was too much for them and you. They love Hindu traditions so much they're actually trying to keep them alive in Sikhi (!) much enlightenment. You and your family will go to hell, and no I'm not swearing at you nor am I saying it from me. That's the fate Guru Sahib said awaited those who fear and cling to the caste system. Honestly I'm not the one screaming about being a proud Jatt, I'm not the one who's filled with Haumai about his Caste. That's Gurbani you simple minded buffoon. You said your family taught you Santhiya, so read it and weep. Guru Sahib outright says those who see Caste as an illusion are the ones who find God, you clearly don't. He also says in the same stanza that people like you who fear and abide by the Caste system are going to hell. Like I said, I'm casteless. You need to call yourself a Jatt to feel something, if anything it shows the stature of a man you are. I honestly don't need any identity except that of being a Sikh. So then. Is the Gurbani false? because it just destroyed your arguments. Just remember guyzzz being a "proud Jatt" or proud any caste trumps what God said.

Anyone who believes in the Caste System can take it up with Guru Sahib himself. He even outright said it's all lies. ਜੇ ਜੇ ਸਹਿਤ ਜਾਤਨ ਸੰਦੇਹਿ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਸੰਗਿ ਨ ਛੋਡਤ ਨੇਹ ॥ From the Mukh of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj, Father of the Khalsa I could sit here and post quote after quote but i fear it would fall on deaf ears. Trying to penetrate the thick ego of the caste minded person isn't something I have the power to do I fear.

Why are you avoiding all my questions. You said Caste is determined by God, so tell me what Caste these english surnames are and why you and your family call Bhai Gurdas Ji and Bhai Nand Lal Ji liars. Do you not consider them Brahmgyanis? do you think they were liars and fools? is that what you're saying? because that's what it sounds like. You've said that God's Hukam determines caste yet you can't tell me the caste of Smith, Mutumbo and so on. What utter tosh. Don't drag God into the mess you and your family are a part of. Sure its all within Hukam but so is death, destruction and genocide. That doesn't make it right. I swear you have to be one of the densest people I've met. Where have I actually said i have the words "Guru Nanak Dev" in my name? I said my caste is that of "Sikh of Guru Nanak" , My lord and Liege who is casteless and thus so am I. Caste is based in Maya, So feel free to be Maya's little wench all your life, I'm sure you and your family will go far in that. I even explained the basis of the caste system is in the social infrastructure of Punjabi society and has its roots in Hinduism. All you're doing is showing people you're more loyal to that. I broke it down in plain english to the point an infant could understand how easy it is to change your name, surname and assume a different Identity. Heck, Sikhs do it all the time and did so in the past. You're so clung onto your own identity its no wonder you seem so hellbent on protecting it. All I hear is you whining about how proud you are of your caste and family. Yet you're running from the questions im asking.

LOVELY SHABADS + SWEET VOICE = PREM BHAKTI

So you narrow the whole issue of caste to your personal viewpoint whilst being almost wilfully ignorant of the stank it causes in our wider community.

Maybe go.to counseling...it seems.u have unresolved issues. Also do a heartfelt ardaas Do chaupai sahib with dhian everyday

When you were pinned down, I believe it is sleep paralysis. Search it up, it's a little scary but I've had it loads of times and the first time was the worst but the last one I had was a couple of months ago and to be honest, I wasn't scared. I chose to ignore what games my mind played with me. I started becoming more positive with the life around me, I became closer to God by choosing to go Gurdwara more often and telling him the low's in my life and I would feel clean minded and free! Enough about me, I just believe it is due to your inner energy and power that drives these things. I hope you get well and life does always turn around! I wish you are the happiest you can be today.