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I agree with you brother Hindus put their palms together when they greet, does that mean we should stop doing the same when we do fateh Ram kept shastars, bow and arrow with him at all times and he told his brother lakhshman to do the same, so should we stop carrying shastars ? Shashtar vidya was practiced by hindus, should we stop Sita told ram that 3 of the biggest sins that one should never commit is 1.lying 2.sleeping with another mans wife 3.killing a innocent human/animal is this not Sikhi too! The upanishads say best way to self realization and liberation/mukti is by meditating on the creator. Upanishads also say its important to control our mind and vises like lust. ego. anger as they create illusion/maya and make us think that we are separate from our creator and that we are individuals etc In mahabharat krishna tells arjuna that fear is our enemy and is created by ego and that the slayer doesn't slay nor does the slain get slayed as the body is just a shell and the soul doesn't die but continues its journey Buddha said the cause of all pain is ego Knowing some people on here i'm probably gnna get accused of being a undercover Hindu haha But obviously their is no place for idols, rituals, fasting, brahmins, caste, sects, ganges etc in Sikhi

There seems to be a trend these days to dismiss history as ‘adulterated’, just because it is used in sanatan traditions. Kesh are a Santan tradition. Considering tobacco to be evil is from sanatan dharam. Having physical relations with one’s own spouse only is from sanatan dharam . Sharing food is from Santan dharma... If theses new preachers remain unchecked, they will start to dismiss all of these things as adulteration of Gurmat... We need to keep alert... Waheguru...

Khalsa Ji, With regards to Bhai Gurdas ji’s vaaran, about Waheguru Gurmantar. I feel that this video is misinterpreting the Vaar. My understanding is that ਵ is from Vasudev. ਹ is from Hari. ਗ is from Gobind. ਰ is from Ram. All,of these names of Akal Purakh were used. The word Waheguru has nothing to do with deities. If in doubt, read the chapter from the history of 6th Patshahi, where Bhai Gurdas Ji explained the meaning of Waheguru to the seven hundred intellectual Pandits of Kanchi. The Pandits of Kanchi became Sikhs of 6th Patshahi, after hearing the katha. Waheguru...

Apologies if my post sounds irrational, but I'd be lying if I said this doesn't get me incensed.

WJKK WJKF I mean... the Khalsa is supposed to protect people... so why don't we start doing that? Like Turbanator ji said, we need to create an environment where victims aren't afraid to come out. We also need to make it known that Sikhs will not tolerate this. I don't doubt for a second that this is happening to Hindus and probably even Christians too, but at the moment we need to focus on this for ourselves.

dasam bani time

VJKK VJKF That's so true! I have so much stuff in my heart that I really want to share with someone but I can't because my parents are typical Punjabi parents and I know what they are like so I keep everything to myself and that's just the way that I am now. My mum doesn't know what I am really like and neither does my dad. That's why I like coming on here to listen to other people's problems and give my twopence worth because I know what it feels like. Yes. That's why most girls become besharam because they want to "fit in" because there is a lack of parchaar. That's also why I cherish Guru Ji so much because even if my parents don't understand me, Guru Ji does. If we had more parchaar then no Sikh girl would feel insecure enough to trust a stranger. I agree, its not only girls at risk but it's also boys. Muslims (I have noticed) can't help it, they HAVE to tell EVERYONE about how great their religion is and Sikh children are too scared to do so because they feel they will be bullied. We have a lot we have to improve... VJKK VJKF

Every sikh parent should know that most musley are enrolling their girls and boys in marital arts/boxing/muay thai type classes from as young an age as possible they are planning long term . Unless we all adults and children don't toughen up and get ready we will be caught unawares by the violence they have started to unleash on communities . Your children's lives matter to you AND the panth , make them aware , get them prepared and stay awake . Get your banian Kant Those of us who can put english subtitles to punjabi speaking itihaasic vids , translate old granths to english, bug committees to start itihaas classes , discussion groups, outreach to single parent families etc

parents and families need to get a realistic view of the western world and realise that their children are constantly being targetted by other faiths (christians are also getting into our girls ' heads and converting them, hindus persuading them to go into their households and thus no more baby sikhs) Muslims are the most persistant and numerous . It is not just girls but boys who are subjected to this constant pressure to become like the musley/christians/hindus/atheists by denying their roots and dharam. Boys need to be supported and mentored in sikhi by our young men and older wise gursikhs emulating tarna dal - budda dal relationship. Our Girls also need a strong network of sikh friends and counsellors inside and outside their family group to help them broach the subject. Our families who are suffering under the cosh of drugs/alcohol need a place to go and get help no matter where they are . The kids of these families are vulnerable to being picked off , as are children of mixed backgrounds, broken homes, single mothers/fathers so need care , safe space to learn what a sikh actually is not be left to believe what their folks present is the sum of sikhi. I KNOW that a shoulder to cry on or a non-judgemental ear is all these girls need . Honestly if we can do parchaar on sikhi's idea of sin and forgiveness and how Guru ji is forgiving , it will make these kids more close to sikhi. The scare stories that other faiths put up about us should be challenged at every level . No sikh child should feel that there is something wrong with being a sikh.

Education, as well as creating a more accepting environment where victims can come out. We need to also expose these groomers even more. The key factor these groomers exploit is the Punjabi family sense of “honour” which prevents famalies from coming out. We need to fight this Desi perversion of “honour”, and install Gurmat values in famalies to give them a hunger of justice. Along with education, exposing, and changing the family framework, we also need to take harder stances against these crimes and set up bait accounts as well as increase sting operations.

Thing is he's acting as if he'll say sorry and the kind hearted sikhs will let him go ... there is something in that to think about . When baddies had an expectation of being chatka-ed or at least beaten to within an inch they stayed away from sikh women , now they perceive sikhs as physically soft and mentally docile anything's possible . It is that one thing that got to me . He openly admits he has already done this to another underage sikh girl for some time and is just putting his hands together to wheedle out of this . The fact is , he is and will always be a predator of our girls

Well that's the thing if you behave like a slapper then your gnna get treated like a slapper! but obviously in todays politically correct society you can't say things like that, but its the truth. Obviously many innocent girls who are ignorant to what guys are capable of doing end up getting taken advantage off, thats different. If you dress like a tart, get drunk, have casual sex, then why are you surprised when someone treats you like crap and takes advantage! why do they do this in the first place? and then people wounder why punjabi women are considered "easy going" Some self respect and discipline can take you a long way

Well the question is why are Sikh women easy targets? If we try to get into the groomers mind, what do they think of Sikh women? what makes them think Sikh women are easy targets? and why are they such easy targets. They say the groomers give them money, clothes, jewelry, well why do Sikh women get easily infatuated with some cash thrown at them? Many Sikh women have their drinks spiked in clubs and then end up getting raped, question is What is a semi naked Sikh woman doing in a club with drinks in the first place? obviously in todays time in this country there is absolutely nothing wrong with women being semi naked and getting drunk in clubs but is that Ok for someone who calls herself a Sikh? In same cases Sikh women end up getting black mailed after having one night stands. They have casual sex and then next minute guys start black mailing them, there have been many of these cases at universities. At my school Sikhs were a tiny minority but the few Sikh females there were they used to smoke out side school gates, sneak alcohol into school etc one Punjabi girl made a video of herself sticking a toilet brush up her private parts in the school toilets, and then sent it to Paki boys from another school, she then was bullied. There was another case of a Punjabi girl in our school who was going out with a paki, he then started saying to her that if she doesn't send him a selfie of her breast he's then gnna tell her parents that shes with a paki, so she took a pic of her breast and sent it to him and then next minute everyone had it on their phones, even i saw it! She didn't learn and few years later was engaged to a Pakistani If you take these things into perspective then you can get an idea of why people from other communities see Punjabi women as "easy" Yes many innocent girls get groomed but many get groomed because they behave like trash in the first place and become easier to take advantage off ... I feel sorry for them, its terrible what they go through, but i aint gnna defend trashy behavior ...

I'm surprised they do that to their own women as well, because they are from the same community not many people probably see it as grooming.

I think this is a silly excuse to resort to name calling. the akj haters have just found an oppurtunity to pubily show hatred to akj just beacuse akj.org may not have handled certain topics perfectly. Lets get the facts out in the open and not resort to bickering which will waste all our time. If anyone has a problem with akj.org nows the chance to be polite and respectfully give suggestions as one of the admins - Harpreet singh is involved in this topic. I'll try not to show any bias and but hear a few points which i shall try to state factually: - Yes one certain member has given his personal opinion that he doesnt believe in all of dasam granth to be gurbani including chandi di war, that is unfortunate for him. - Yes a certain member and certain admin have HINTED in favour of ragi darshan in some posts, but bhai harpreet singh (who you are all attacking) clearly stated after ragi's excommunication that noone should show support to him otherwise they will be come tankhiyaa. do a search of this. - Harpreet Singh has never talked against any bani of dasam granth, but IF he does doubt any certain bani then thats upto him to do research into it. doubting is not the problem, speaking out against is. - One admin (harpreet singh) cannot be blamed for actions of other admins/members Egoistic people are in every jatha, but you are lucky to have a humble person on this thread, so my advice is take advantage of that and respectfully air some of your concerns here. The only REAL problem is that some members are complaining that their pro-dasam granth posts are rejected on akj.org. if that is the case and the post doesn't contain rude remarks then the post should be allowed. maybe bhai harpreet singh can give his email contact so that members can send their dissallowed posts to him, and if harpreet singh finds that the tone of the post is ok, then he can post on your behalf. instead of wasting time arguing, debate or put forth suggestions to get something positive out of it.

Sorry Singho, I can't deal with lying anonymous users on the net. You can do my nindaa as much as you want and you wouldn't loose much because i am nindan-yog. However, you are committing a grave mistake doing nindaa of other gursikhs you know nothing about. I shall leave this discussion here with the hope that to the unbiased reader I have already clarified akj.org's position. Some are going to continue to lie and repeat these lies over and over, I can't keep restating the facts. My humble baynatee is once again for Panthic Gursikhs to recognize their duty to come together and free our Panthic institutions from the control of the Badals. We have to actively engage in this campaign. Vaaheguroo jee kaa Khaalsaa! Vaaheguroo jee kee Fateh!! - Daas Harpreet Singh (Toronto)

...and this is coming from a 'Quality Control' group member..lol. You are unable to discuss the issue so you resort to name-calling. Read my last post again, specifically:

Vaaheguroo jee kaa Khaalsaa! Vaaheguroo jee kee Fateh!! I have clearly stated the position of akj.org on the issue of Dasam Granth in my earlier two posts. This has perhaps rattled the akj.org haters because their lies laid bare before all. So, they are now just repeating their lies over and over with the hope that some may stick with some innocent mind as truth. All I can say is that this is not the way of Gursikhs. I appeal to the moderators of this forum to realize their obligation to truth and act responsibly. It is easy to hide behind an internet anonymous identity and spew venomous hate. If you are a Panthic Gursikh, come forward with your identity and engage in a respectful debate and you will discover that we are on the same side. If, however, your purpose in life is to hurt the Sikh Panth, continue with your propaganda but take note that Divine Justice is inescapable. Vaaheguroo jee kaa Khaalsaa! Vaaheguroo jee kee Fateh!!

hey where have all the posts from last night gone ?? am i being censored ??? same thing this thread accused akj.org from.. so we do have some moderation on sikhsangat, bole so nihaall, sat sri akal... thank you for proving my point, about forums and moderation, contributors have there own views to blame a forum or have go at site is just hypocritical when you have just done the same thing on this thread, i rest my case... judge, now who is the judge, gps, onlyfive, singhfauja etc....anyways off to read the thread on chittarprakyan on dasam granth.. i do have an open mind , see if that serves as more educational than the other engish translation that was on this site.. quick question am i allowed to ask questions there ? or will i get censored

Everything i've read in this thread is funny for me and always be, simply because if I took it all seriously I wouldn't sleep, i would be stressed, I would have white beard by now, the reality is this forum has changed, the moderators are friends of the posters, so to shut someone up the posters talk to mods, why was there a need for the mod to put up what he did, where did anyone discredit anything ? i've been a member on this forum a lot longer than most and have seen moderators come and ago but lately I see moderation no different to what you have accused akj.org off, either tow the line with us on everything or get ready to be told to shut up, is that what sikhi is about ??? You make it out that dasam granth is your guru, from everything you write, you can't have 2 gurus simple as that, only one granth is guru sahib and that is guru granth sahib, to say it's okay to have paraellel parkash, that is like going against the hukam of Guru gobind singh ji, Guru Granth jee manyeou pragath guru ki deh ? also did guru sahib do parkahs of dasam granth ? of course not because the granth was compiled later ? so if Guru Sahib never made a dasam granth, there must have been a reason, of course anything guru sahib said was to considered as mukh vaak, hukam etc, the debate on dasam granth will continue for years to come, pro and against, we should learn to accept that we all agree about our nitnem baniya, we prob agree with most of dasam granth but whether you like it or not, it will be difficult to convince the whole panth that everything is guru sahibs rachhnaa, if you are so learned about dasam granth, please explain to me when guru sahib had time to actually write it all, straightforward question, something I would have asked in the dasam granth topic but since we are discussing here, please educate, time line etc... Probably get edite or moderated for such questions but on one hand it is okay to write x y and x about akj,org but to question moderation on sikhsangat is probably anti panthic !!!!

I could say this thread was started by vhaegurujikifateh, are you hired by them to do their bidding ? No I generally find the debate interesting hehehehehe, amazing to see the lengths people go to, to malign others as anit panthic, dushts etc, sad but it is common now... the thread actually relates to akj.org, a site i do visit alongwith tapoban.org, gurmatbibek.com, sikhnet forums, keertan.net when it used to have one, i find forums interesting as you learn about the nature of our current issues, how our young and old sikhs handle issues etc... so all good... sadly the future looks like are becoming a more talibanlistic kind of religion where discourse won't be allowed, amazing that only 50 odd years ago we could have great scholars sit and discuss, present their finding etc, that could never happen now, scholars would probably get beaten up or worse, it is sad...

Do some home work yourself and read sikh rehat maryada. It talks about taechings and utterances of ten Gurus and kahnde bate da amrit. GPS, again you seem to be twisting what I have written, yes the SRM does state about teaching and utterances and khandea bare da amrit, I agree there is not sikhi without amrit, we all know that, but from every thing I have read on this forum when we had debates about mixed marriages in the g'wara, the one condition everyone wrote about was the non sikhs accepting guru granth sahib as there guru, no one ever mentioned dasam granth or anything else, so my point before you accuse me of diversion again is that generally accepted definition of a sikh is that they believe in Guru Granth Sahib as their guru, that is why those with nakli deh dhari gurus are not accepted as sikhs.. I hope my point is clear... phew hard work making a point clear to those who wish to twist it into making you look like you don't believe in the basics of sikhi...

where did i say dasam granth isn't important, i just stated that as per SRM that is the qualification of a sikh, not diversion tactics trying to understand why you hate your fellow gursikhs so much ? i never mentioned darshan singh as your fellow gursikh... also did the panth rename him to lal hehehehe, never saw that in the hukamnama or is that something you were given the authority to change ? do you hate all posters and admin on akj.org ? or just those who don't agree with you 100%... can you get me the quote from SRM where it states that ? (I did say I could be wrong), I like the way you edit your posts after you have written them, how do you that ?? I thought once submitted that was it.. oh i never saw the old edit button on your own posts...

I would say the above post from harpreet singh, clarifies what akj.org stance is... you go on about not diverting the thread but the title of the thread is somone on akj forum support prof darshan singh ? I would again say so what ? can you prove your case in a court of law that the acutal admins also support him and guilty of betrayal to the panth ? I believe as harpreet singh has written people here don't know how to write or debate, I would encourage you to look at what you have written and see whether that is in line with the purpose of your thread ? admin prob should close the thread as there has been clarification from akj.org on the matter, the rest is just gossip mongering and accusations, it is a shame that we steep so low.. show me the facts in your accusation and then you have a case, like this thread there are opposing views on the actual thread heading... i'm sure on this site there are those who disagreed with the chukcing out of panth on darshan singhs case, GPS you do make statements with such announcement, it come's across like you have some kind of certifcate from the panth to denounce who is a sikh and who isn't, remember a sikhs definition is they believe in juguu juguu atal Guru Granth Sahib ji, unless that has changed to include dasam granth.. I could be wrong... please learn the baisc concept of tolerance and forgiveness, one day you and I will die, it is a reality, let us not go with so much hate for fellow gursikh brothers, no good will come of it, on one hand I like your passion but on the other hand I find you to be rude to everyone who disagrees with you.. perhaps it is you who need's to open your eyes to bigger issues in panth...

Vaaheguroo jee kaa Khaalsaa! Vaaheguroo jee kee Fateh!! It is very unfortunate that this forum is being used by some to create more hatred and more divisions within the Panth. Yes, we have differences but pyariyo these are 'tolerable' differences that our Panth has accommodated for decades to instead focus on the more critical issues. These differences can also be resolved but not via public debates or challenges (Akal Takhat Sahib has also asked the Panth to refrain from these). We would do well to invoke the Panthic way of resolving the differences but the Badals wouldn't let that happen on their watch. Until we are able to do that we will have to do our kamar-kasay to get rid of the forces (the Badals) that are preventing us. Let's take the example of Ragmala. It is a tolerable difference. Yet, from time to time politicians are able to whip us into a frenzy and treat the one on the other side of the debate as a non-Sikh, anti-Sikh, RSS agent etc. I remember that during the time when Singhs had gained the upper hand in Punjab in the late 80s, some militant groups had issued a threat that anyone who does Akhand Paath Bhog without reading Ragmala will be shot. It took a lot then for the Singhs to realize that we can ignore this difference to keep working together against the common enemy. Only a sincere, investigative, historian will be able to discern what these differences cost us. We are doing the same thing again. Why are we so easily manipulated by the politicians? I humbly ask again for us to refrain from painting each other as enemies. Regarding AKJ.org, read complete threads and you will find that we have: neither supported Sarna nor Badal, neither supported Afghana nor Prof Darshan Singh, not allowed disrespect of Ammrit Gurbani be it from Sree Guru Granth Sahib or the Dasam Granth, not allowed insults to our Rehat Maryadas. If mistakes were made or some post slipped through, it was followed with action of either deleting or a proper rebuttal. We stand committed to serving the Panth under the full bhae-bhaavanee of Sree Bhagoutee Jee Sahib, Guru Sahib, Sree Akal Takhat Sahib. Regarding some of the users here complaining about their posts not being put up, it would have to be looked at. However, I am sure if you write the way you write here i.e with baseless innuendo, insults and hateful writing, it will certainly not get through, nor will any attempts to provoke a Dasam Granth debate or any other divisive issue. All Panthic media outlets have to play a constructive role to bringing us back to the real issues. Please do your part. Vaaheguroo jee kaa Khaalsaa! Vaaheguroo jee kee Fateh!! Daas Harpreet Singh (Toronto)

I was just talking to someone the other day and their first questions was why have this issue become such a hughe issue all of a sudden, even thought I explained the ins and outs as much as I knew, they were like but who actually read dasam granth other than our daily baniya ? I was like well prob only about 10% of the panth if that ? he then went onto say to me that we all know that we respect baniya of dasam granth, bhai gurdas ji vars, bhani nand lal jis swaivyea but the we only have one Guru, which is Guru granth sahib, again I concurred with him on this, so he said for me I bow down to Guru granth sahib and Guru granth sahib only, so why all the rulaaa about dual parakash of both granths ? he goes to me than never happened in the uk before has it ? to my knowledge it never did maybe some nihangs might off, but taksal never used to or akj, then he said to me that why would they chuck on prof darshan singh on this issues, i explained to him the gala that he had said and the way he had handled the peshi scenario, he was like okay perhaps he made a mistake there but to chuck him out of panth ?? i was like well those are the rulese, he goes we allow those that enough damage to panth to be like choudris of the panth but those that made sacrifices for it over the years get chucked out... Now the point of emailing the above is that many in the panth are not even aware of this whole debate ? they worry more about their local community and their children straying from sikhi, but at the moment it like the be all and end all with some, of course you are going to get those who support darshan singh, that always happens, just as you got many who support badal, makkar, etc, you will get those who won't hear a word of discussion on probably the most controversial aspect of dasam granth, chittarpriaykan, there was a thread on this site with the english translations, not sure if it's here anymore but many just dissed that translation as one man's twisted view ? i did read it and found it hard to comprehend, I've also read the new punjabi version that has gone up and see a massive difference in translations, which one is correct ? panth has done the right thing by saying we won't do anything but the problem you have it those who have gone to far either way, dual parkash is not allowed but many are doing it ? what will panth do about that ? there are those who have distrubted keertan progs when someone quoted dasam granth ? what will panth do about them ? You get my drift, it's all well and good giving out hukamnamea but the reality is implementation ? that is the problem with panth at the moment, we close our eyes to those issues and worry about some posters on akj.org supporting darshan singh... make's you wonder what will become of the panth.., there is a hughe need for the way we do things to be assessed and corrected with consulation in the form of sarbat khalsa...

umm i've read a few threads on there and for the most part they seem to put both views forward, perhaps they don't allow debate on specific baniya from dasam granth, but that is up to them, just as this site also stops certain threads etc, i've seen many ask the questiong about sant ji being alive and those threads do get stopped and censored, have your posts being to pro dasam granth, have you tried to justify everything per guru granth sahib ? or are these posts you put just the pro dasam granth views from panthic.org ? whether they allow them or not is their right, if you don't want to go there than don't. The dasam granth debate has gone on for too long there is so much more wrong with the panth at the moment but everyone has gone quiet on those issues, badal and makkar controlled sgpc for one, akal takhat maahaan taaa ??? Sant Ranjit singh dhadrianvala's diwan highlighted much that is wrong with our panth, false allegations, lack of pyar and willingless to listen to a different point of view on an issue, those views aren't nothing new either, they been their for centuries as well, whether I or you agree is neither here or there, the fundamental questions is whether akal takhat sahib are implementing their own hukamnamea?? I don't wish to here about who is panthic and who is not, one side claim they are the other do the same, being panthic is about your actions, your rehni behni, your sikhi, this site used be a good site but all I see now is hate hate hate, before we had some good discussions here but now we have people dictating, again I could leave and not bother but it is important to present the none bias view, perhaps when posing on akj.org you should try and put your point across with the aggresive tone you present here... remember mitha bolan can win over many...guru nanank dev ji did this time and time again...