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the word gutak means to chirp or tweet. chirping and tweeting sounds nice. so in this way, it sounds beautiful to meditate on the lord of all. "ras guta-e" in sggs

an extra japji sahib wont hurt. its up to u what paat u do, if u feel that bad that u feel to do paat. but yea. the more paat u do, the better. (as always) :happybouncer:

sss okaaaaaaaaie :mushroombounce:

when you ask what is the meaning of this shabad, i dont think i quite understand what you mean.. and its ang 617. :blink2: but this is how the shabad goes..:happy2: the shabad says, >> god is abinaash meaning can never be finished and is there forever. He is the father of all life in existance. all sins, dirt and baggage are washed away meditating on Him. >> the attributes of God Himself, 'gun' , are given to the ones who medtate on him, as treasures. only a few people understand this thing and act on it (i.e. do naam). >>O myself! (this is us lot - humanity), meditate! . gur, gopal, prabh, soi. ( these 4 words are all discriptors of God. it is as you say waheguru waheguru waheguru waheguru. >>when you come under the sharan (shelter) of God, happiness is recieved!. pain will never be felt ever again >>the fortunate ones recieve these gits from God in saadhsangat. To give everything to God in saadhsangat is to be released from the badness of the mind. >>that person who has achieved this staus (and hence joined with god to become partakh akaal saroop on earth) i servent naanak am at the feet of that perosn, yearning for the dust of the feet of that person, who has naam resonating through that person's escence. i take it that this last line has yo confused. naam only resonates like that once you have become somthing called kamala daas (this is in gurbani) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pwis bYTI bIbI kvlw dwsI ]2] paas baithee beebee kavalaa dhaasee |2| <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< kavla daas is daas to akaal purakh. most translations say kavla means maya, and laxmi. which is also true. but it also means daas to akaal purakh. once we are das, we are entrusted with seva of akaal purakh. sukhmani sahib says sat purakh jin jaanya >satgur< tis ka naao... etc. through naam, we 'jaan' akaal purakh. i.e. we understand akaal purakh. and this is is the reason y guru naanak dev ji says this...., that whoever does this, becomes naam saroop onward to become akaal saroop. it is dificult. this is y sikhi marag is dificult. hope iv answered ur q ji. furthermore guruji says, jw kau dyKq dirdRü jwvY nwmu so inDwnu pwvY gurmuiK g´win durmiq mYlu DovY jIau ] sothis pauri explains this section a bit.. gurfateh jio

we also dont believe in doign bad deeds. it dont mean that bad deeds dont exist. : / chaupi sahib paat is vadhu here. for obvious reasons, do as many as possible. but 5 chaupis, with sharda, u can stop any badness comming to you. 5 mool mantars with sharda (reverance), does the same. any black magic / ill wishes that have been or are being done on you, will turn back onto the one who initiated the black magic, and it will happen to them. all manner of beings bow to akaal purakh. so we are told to see akaalpurakh as our guru, what harm can ever come to us? none. this goes even so far as to say that superstitions like dont go to funeral . graveyard in u pregnant, all dissolve. all badness dissolves under gur-sharan. jaroori hai. gurfateh.

just to add, being a 'sehej' dhari does not mean you live ur life how u want, and then u take amrit to become amrit dhari.. sehej is summin totally different. i would explain it as an individual that is exactly the same as an amritdhari, without actually taking the amrit. we are to live in sehej before we get amrit ras. >>>>>>>>>>> shj smwiD lgI ilv AMqir so rsu soeI jwxY jIau ]1] sehaj samaadh lagee liv anthar so ras soee jaanai jeeo |1| <<<<<<<<<<< we need sehej before we are to take amrit. gurfateh..

^^ that jokes :geek: generally speaking, it is possible that you like doing naam jupping and paat, so, in ur (physical) brain, you associate food with the same hapiness hence those same neuronal pathways. so, just as the positive feedback mechnisms of the body works, you get your tastes n smells whenever you get happy doing paat. this is quite somthing. synesthetes can hear colours and taste sounds and smell music. quite cool i dont suppose u are one?? wud be nice to know/meet a synesthete!. if u dont get happy after the paat tho, then another explaination is that chemicals, i.e. tasty ones from food, can dissolve from your food, into the cheaks and buccal cavity on the inside of your mouth. so wen u wake up n do paat (after brushing etc), it can surface as you salivate. not eating also, breaks dwn esters (i think its esters!!) and then u can taste that sweet taste as well. note, this is different to the natural amrit within yourself that tastes sweet, somthing like when u lick a battery i dont suggest u do that tho.. when u get natural body amrit, you will no it. esters breaking down due to not eating, and tasting amrit through naam simran are differnt. to origional poster, this is a most odd experiance you have. but i have shared this too! except, i askt sum1 else to come in my room after i dun sum paat and to 'smell' ma room. it had just rained. another thing, it has been shown that as we go through puberty, hormones can cause this too. but it is minimal only... gurfateh jio

to KhalistaniGunMan, also, muslims say that god made a promise to not destroy heaven. but this is not the case. our goal is not to stay in heaven, its to mearge with god himself, who is in such khand. gurfateh brotha! :khalsa:

heaven and hell are not permimnant places. sukhmani sahib says, >narak surag fir fir avtaar<. meaning you will get into the cycle of heaven n hell. we are not to look towards hell (the left) and not heaven either (the right) we are to go through heaven, and >through< sach khand to marge back into god. this is what it means to merge with god himself. this is what it means to join our 'kar' >doe kar jor<. all duality should finish. this is also y guru ji says >paap pun doe ek samana< , >paap pun bhi saar na jaanai< , >kanchan loh samaan< , >kacha meetha eko jaan<. if we do good, we go haven to get rewarded, then get back into the chaurasi the life cycle, as it is with doing bad, then going to hel, then back into the cycle. to get rid of all bad and good karam alike, is our true destiny, to be seriene. content. yes,there are 5 khands. but each is split into an infinite number of more levels. it does not end. until we merge into the light. there are those that see, then those that harber, then those that make this jort pargat. these can be taken to be the 3 levels of bhagat, sant, then jun. >>>>>> khu nwnk dieAwl suAwmI sMqu Bgqu jnu soeI ]2]5]36] kahu naanak dhaeiaal suaamee santh bhagath jan soee |2|5|36| <<<<<<< from these 3 main ctagories, the pauri (ladder) of 21, is therein. >chareeyae hoe ikees<. to be 21, is to be puran. there are those that wil not accept that to mearge with god, you must become the vessel. then onward to carry gur-jot, then watch that gur jort manifest and evolve into har- jort --> keep in mind that >gur parmeswar eko jaan<. (if u dont get this bit, then it dont matter). but this is how low we really are. and how much we dont understand. so this is our purpose and pathway. to the origional poster, good on u. god is not restricted to any faith. there is many pathways to god. as.., there are many ways to walk the path towards god. sikhism says, realise your mool. your escence. accept what you know to be true in your heart. as a generality, dharam khand is reception for ppl. this is where dharamraaj has his minions and that big book (that takes 2 massive sevaks to turn). if we have no karam, we skip the judgement of dhramraaj, (the guy who weighs good n bad). we skip it as this dharam raaj has no buisness with ppl who have no good or bad deeds. to be free from choice, is to be free from duality. (please note! this does not mean that we are not do act in goodness. all goodness that we do, is not what we are doing. to think of the bhala of everyone is the way.). if n wen we give all to guru ji, all good and bad, then, only then, we will have no karam. i wish to stress this point. this is our goal. this is the goal of humanity. i commend you for realising what yo have realised brother. lets move forward with the one brotherhood of humanity as our gru taught, and as it should be. gurfateh.. as a side note, it makes u think which wide we wud take if we suddenly saw aliens

scientificay speaking, humans have an unusally large brain for their heads. (it is a bit funny i no ). so firstly, i would not go so far as to say that an animal can think like a human. animals have a great capacity to understand behaviour. i love my pet. sumtimes feel that i can communicate with my pet too. the one thing that seperates humans from animals is choice. we cannot say for sure that animals cannot have intent, but animals wil alwys try to secure its own survival. it may protect the owner, but thats cuz the owner feeds it, and yes, a bond is made. guruji says that its this (human) life that is the way out. not through any other life. (some ask, wot bout aliens ; well if an alien reads gurbani and undestands that it is in this maanas janam that we can get emancipated, then that alien too will get mukti. choice is the key). ------- if a person is bad the whole of his life but remembers god in the end, then that is again, his sunjog (through chice orreaping a benifit from a previous life. he will have to pay for the bad that has been earned, but some goodnes will also be recieved due to the sacrifice. depending on the sacrifice, the person might move into his next lfe to meet and reap the earnings from the bad karam, but the 'manifest' of the gud karam could be that he meets sant mahapurash and they (through ardaas) make the bad karam go away. so its all reletive like this.

yea. the main reason that it gave was that the comming together of raaj jorg is the reason. i.e. sant bit (bani) and the sipaahi bit (kirpaan). but it doesnt say anything more than that...? i was searching for the reason why prashaad is porg-ed with the kirpaan. only came to me last week so i was glad to come accross your post happy coincidence. (kirpa ) : ) why do you think that we do kirpaan porg?

thanks ji. and ideas why bhai gurdaas ji calls it an anoop roop? cz to me it sounded like aapa mitaae - you make ur mun zero ; then milat anoop roop taas hai - you meet the anoop roop of god. this was blatently wrong as paan aint no gud thing! where did u get the translation from? and what is the function of the word 'taas' ? its not apparant from the translation.

this pauri is quoted in lotsa places about how one is to make prashaad. further down, it talks about paan supaari and katha (the red thing they put into the paan) i do not understand this underlined pankti. shead some light please? thanks

go here, you can see where it is. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9876150782/5444877924/ jus search on the net

which page is the kirpaan porg reason ji? * i didnt realize that it was not the whole book. thanks ji!

it wud be the karam of that dog that he wud lose his life in that way. it is counted as a pun. but this act of pun was written in the life of that dog. the dog wud have been given this sunjog as a result from actions prior to getting the life of a dog. it is only in human life that we can do naam to change our karam if bad, or to make it vadh if its good, with naam. its possible that this cud hapen neare the time that the dog is to get the life of a human. its only in this life that we can get mukti from the chaurasi. the pun that the dog achieved would get counted in the life as a human and we would see it as good furtune. i.e. being saved from death (for example). this is the human reaping the benifits from the goodness sown when s/he was a dog in the past life, saving another's life. this is how it happens normally. but there are exceptions. like the tiger sakhi and that life-form, the horse, that guru gobind singh ji has. ( it is a seva to serve guruji. the horse of guruji has done amazing things to get that seva so..). these are exceptions. gurfateh

^^ sss ok ji luk, it is a gupt things that most ppl say, that less than the dasvandh daily, you dont get anyhting. i.e. ' kushni milda 2 kente (2 hrs) te swaae '. jus sit for 40 mins max. and jus see what your mind duz. try to think of nothing at start. ( actually its better to say the word waheguru reely slowly.) - try this for a week. to tell another thing, it takes a week to get at a level where u wernt before. jus listen to keertan all day and nyt (earfones - u myt go bit def tho ) do this for 5 days to a week plus 5 nitnem bania, u will defo fly brother. it myt take a few extra days for the veechaar in ur mum to kick in. u have to do nitnem aloud so u can hear urself. then, sooner than later, a line that u read, will jump out at u and u will under stand it. u have to read it with meaning, and not like prose. its all about doing veechaar. vechaar of akath katha. har ki gaath / gatha. ( gatha = har ki katha. ) ' akath kathaa veechaareeai jae sathigur maahi samaae ' doing this veechaar, u will realise why bani says that this jug is a supna. u will be living it. this is y we do jaaap of shabads and naam etc. mool mantar (up till nanak hosi pi such ) then 5 wahegurus. this is a powerful jaap. doing sampat of shabads, and naam sampat of naam, its all to get it into ourselves. sampat is so powerfull. there was a sampat akhand paat that was done in uk that all 33 million devi devte came to be haajri. it was the first sampat that was done after ages and so many ppl saw the devtea. in bhai daya singh ji rehetnama it says to do sampat and that its good. sampat is jus a way to increase the power of a shabad ; sampat means 'box' though i like to see it as a frame for bani rather than a box sampat of guru maharaaj can last for 11 days, though there was a sampat done of guru granth sahib maharaj that lasted for 7 days. totaly mahaan.

ਧੰਿਨ ਧੰਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਸਾਧ ਜਨ ਸਖੀਏ ਨਾਨਕ ਿਜਨੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਿਧਆਇਆ

mohinder paal jio, eloooo :D it is widly accepted that we go towards akaal purakh, and not devis so, this is not the discussion here for this obvious reason.

i dont understand how "bhaang" and "machuli" and "sura paan" can be taken out of context. :?

^^^we decide through veechaar basically. when we do jaap of a shabad, or any kind of jaap, its function is to 'anhad vuj' the shabad. we have to know within ourselves without doubt, that the shabad is metaphorical or not. getting there is hard enough but doing veechaar within our mun is harder. its basically like searching our feelings or reflecting within our own self. and that is easy at times, and hard too.

there is a part in bhai sahib bhai randhir singh jis auto bio, that says that they wer on a train and kept askin for darshan of guru gobind singh ji. but because they kept asking, they were given darshan of ganesh and kept seeing them wherever they looked. this was done as bhai sahib was supposed to ask for darshan of akaal purakh. this (i think) is in their auto biography, near the end, after they came out of jail. - this is what i ment by 'fikka darshan. i suppose fikka is a wrong word to use.. : / . and to the above post, i do agree. it is standard that ppl cat go strait to university, we have to go level by level. but thn, the is a way to cut the que. so its not necessrily the case that we go level by level. thanks for ur post

demons are the ones that consumed paan and intoxicants. simbh and nisumbh and mahikhaasur all took paan and drugs. main reason to not take it is that sikhi is all bout sontroling your mind and body and bringing everything to One. drugs n toxics make u loose sight of the Oneness. so.. thas main reason.

haha LOL at "Dear brother, I am actually your sister" and seeing the devis, aanyone think that it could be a sign of a person that is at the level to get darshan of something, but not actually worthy of getting that darshan, then that person is downgraded (as such) to seeing the devi devte? i.e. getting a fikka darshan instead of another so caled 'good' darshan, like seeing guru ji sitting on tabya or..the jort? so though it is a good and high level to get that darshan, its not somthing that is befitting a worthey gurmukh a the same level? - i hope you undestand ma Q ! thnks..

gurfateh! chaupi sahib is the standard name of the 4th bani of nitnem. the name of this bani is actually, "benti" and not chaupi, as chaupi is the name of a chand. just like dohara is, and rooaal, and orlaal etc.. - there are talks to standardise this bani name to "benti sahib" and has been inplemented in some places. pranvo aad.... is the start of the akaal ustat. before before before ( : ) ), there was talks (in the spgc) to remove bania (i.e. decrease the nitnem). saying that benti chaupi and anand sahib came in the reheraas, and only need to do japji shaib jaap sahib and amrit savayyae ( aka tav prasaad savayyae aka sudhaa savayyae. this was another one of those talks where 'pranvo aad ekangkaara' was wrongfully debated to be the 'chaupi' to be recited. now, accepted everywhere, its benti chaupi (hamri karo up untill chaupi ko kehe - some stop at dusht dokh te leho bachaaee which is wrong) as the 4th bani. - hope this clear.. :happybouncer: with reheraaas sahib, there is 5 main parts. on these parts, you can increase them as much as u want. but u can never reduce these 5 parts. the first, so dar, second, so purakh, third benti chaupi, 4th the lil anand sahib and 5th the mundavni , which comes at the end of guru maharaaj b4 the M:9 salork , (generally up untill sagale dookh jaae). the chaupi is normally increased, as is the anand sahib. some ppl do all 40 pauris of anand sahib, normally, the lil anand sahib is the first 5 pauris, plus the last pauri, and this is what is done generally. the way that the chaupi sahib is increased, is that a bit before the 'kabyo baach benti chaupi' is read, and a bit after it is also read. taksaal start at pun raachas ka kaata seesa. naanak sar start 1 pauri before taksaal at bahur asur ka kaatas matha. and the nihangs start all the way before, from the dohara, mahakaal ki sharan je pare... its all chaupi as the base is the benti chaupi, same as in the nitnem. and there are various lengths after benti chaupi, jus get a 'beant banya da gutka' and ull c. or a taksaali gutka at that... so normally, the reheraas is full in tha, its got reheraas at the end etc.. bottommm line is that the 5 parts that are read, cannot be cut shout. ardaas: you do it when you say, 'aap ji di hajoor de vich...' then say, nitnem ji ki ardaas hai. or, keertan ji ki etc.... or reheraas sahib ji ki etc etc etc... the bit before the ardaas is in sukhmani sahib, and the bit after is qU Twkuru qum pih Ardwis ] jIau ipMfu sBu qyrI rwis ] qum mwq ipqw hm bwirk qyry ] qumrI ik®pw mih sUK Gnyry ] koie n jwnY qumrw AMqu ] aUcy qy aUcw BgvMq ] sgl smgRI qumrY sUiqR DwrI ] qum qy hoie su AwigAwkwrI ] qumrI giq imiq qum hI jwnI ] nwnk dws sdw kurbwnI ]8]4] copy n paste this into word n conver it into gurmukhi script, or search in "sikhi to the max 2" search engine. - if u aint got it, get it. over the food, there are a variery of shanads that can serve this purpose. guru ji says that those who eat without remembering god, are silly and a beast. so it can suffise to do a mool mantar to naanak hosi bhi such, and 5 vahegurus. but, ppl say tera ditta khaavna tu data dataaar hai. then say the last bit of jaap sahib 'chatur chakra varti.. up till abhangang bhiboote' then saeyee pyaare milne.. etc (the last bit of the standard ardaas). taksaal have said that its good to do "XYZ" over the food as in, a specified number of shabads. its ovb not too long.. gota eat innit :laugh2: i can find a pic of summin that i took a pic of on what to do over food n post it here if u wana. but naam mantar is plenty before you eat. hope has helped u can msg me/ email me if u dint get anything or what have u.. sat sat sat sat sat kar jaaneeyaho! :yeehaw: