Jangal Da

Hahaha.....maybe the bride and groom should hold hands (tuck kirpans in kamarkasa) and twirl around kikli style? But that would be turning back upon Guru Maharaj...no luck solving this one then. Seriously though, people have done their wedding lavans with the man taking the lead for years and there has been no serious issue with it. I agree with practicing what you preach! Again this is a topic that can only be really appreciated by those of us already married - and if you are married then you will know what women are like driving, let alone trust them to get the lavans right on the day (stand up, sit down, when to matha-tek, which way to go, how many....) lol.

Where in Guru Gobind Singh's Rehat Maryada did he write this? Did he define bana? If you quote historical rahits, then like I said, travel about on horses and learn falconry. Bana is a Khalsa tradition and that's that. Furthermore, who says that if you do not where bana, then do not bother taking amrit? The comment is ill concieved and indicates that your knowledge about Sikhi is very juvenile. I admire seeing people wearing bana as it fills me with great pride about the Khalsa history and traditions, but it is not a uniform laid down by Guru Gobind Singh ji, it is a Khalsa tradition maintained by the nihangs and has only been popularised amongst wider Sikhs in the last half a century. Great Sikhs like Bhai Sahib have been pictured wearing what was fashionable and current in their day. For instance in Bhai Sahib's day the black sherwani and white chooridar paijama were popular amongst the nobility and educated in northern India. Today a Sikh wearing a Saville Row suit walking down the high street is no less Guru Gobind Singh's Sikh than any other because of what he wears. A Khalsa brother will recognise a fellow Khalsa brother irrespective of what he wears and both are children of Dasmesh pita.

Does this surprise you? Isn't the SGPC under the thumb of Badal and party? Baba Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale is a figure in our history like non other - in fact I would go on to say that his life and stance against the zulm of the Hind Sarkar affords him a name in our history equivelent to Baba Deep Singh Shaheed. The spot where he left this world should be marked by a chhabeel. Anyway - good job the SGPC is not doing it. With the hash of kar seva jobs that would give the Duke of Edinburgh a field day of jokes about dodgy Indian craftsmen, we are better off without anything made by them. One day a wealthy sardar will build a monument fit for the one who fought like a tiger - no Sikh should ever forget!

Read this in the Tribune and was disgusted. All I see is an old man and women who've been bashed by cowards. Our own people say something contraversial (if ever it was) and they are public enemy number one. A pakhandi baba does huge beadbi to the sangat infront of the world and his head is still not thrown before the Akal Takht.

Bana is a Khalsa tradition which has been maintained and evolved by the guardians of our faith - the Nihangs. I do not believe Guru Gobind Singh made what people call bana, an order - he wanted a Khalsa to be tyaar-bar-tyaar. Kachera is the minimum requirement, otherwise dress appropriately for the society you live in - in the UK you can wear what you want and if you want to wear a neela chola with dastar bunga then go ahead. Heh why not go the whole distance and instead of driving a mercedes, buy an Arab mare (or raid a Sheikh's house and take one) and use that for your daily transport. I'll stick with the former option. Just a thought - but I reckon if dark blue Levi 501s were available to the Punjab in puratan times, this would become our bana? After all Clint Eastwood was always tyaar-bar-tyaar in the movies?

Never cuss your parents, this is Waheguru's test.

Excellent post! Our Gurus were men of the world and did not shun society with en egotistical attitude. I remember a post a while aback, about 'what would you do if Guru Gobind Singh ji came to your house.' I can imagine that if he'd watch a wedding dvd, he would not be blushing and hiding his face like a 16y old schoolgirl, or sitting there with a 'holier than thou' attitude making comments! Like the military genius that he was, he would develop a strategy to reach out to those who obviously have some affiliation with Sikhism and bring the Panth back into the Panth-Khalsa. If he'd pass a pub and knew that a Sikh in there could me made a Gursikh - he'd go in and I do not know how - love, parchar, whatever - he'd somehow achieve it. This was the man who in the 10th saroop of Guru Nanak ji, made the sparrow turn upon the hawk, made the subserviant into lions! As Sikhs who are guardians of the Guru Granth Sahib, have a duty to maintain it in a respectful environment as laid down by Maryada, need to be wary about the context of beadbi. The context as mentioned by Maryada needs to be followed, but as long as there is an attentiveness to its hazuri at a place where the environment is appropriate, then let it go there and give forth its message, the gurbani and offer spiritual enlightenment or peace to the listeners. For example, taking it to a community center where there is a bar. Okay - firstly what were the obstacles to having this at the gurudwara ie not enough space etc. Ensure the bar area is closed off and no alcohol will be in the vicinity. Ensure the place is a clean as possible - send out cleaning squad beforehand. Comes down to practicality and common sense. At the end of the day, local sangat should be the judges of this and if other sangats have strong objections, then facilitators should be selected to help adjudicate and offer solutions. Obviosly if true beadbi is going on, then thats a different matter and I cannot imagine any local sangat not spotting this out for themselves.

ahem ahem Bhul chuk muaf.

Sessions in the basement....beats kids with branches!!!!! Tarrandeep kaur bhenji, I can imagine this sort of comment, although not meant in a malicious way, will NOT encourage the youth. These methods were about 30y ago when I did Punjabi (and Urdu - Gyani was pre-1947 old skool type) lessons - but kids and parents are unlikely to stand for it today. Determination and committment are won from students through other means. Even Gurmat classes run at places like Harianbela, never use physical methods to get results from their students. Please clarify what students will expect from his teaching method.

Gurudwaras and politics...hahahahha Here in the UK, Gurudwaras often seem to be focal institutions to woo local political councillors! '1979,1984' - Big times in our modern history. The youth can learn a lot about Sikhi by studying the background to what occurred. I see nothing wrong with your dress sense in the Gurudwara. I believe that '84 was a turning point in our noble history and its impact falls heavily on Sikhs today. I am no Khalistani in the sense of wanting to carve out a Sikh state in India today (maybe at that time - the timing was right and hence the demon Indira did what she did after leaving Baba Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale no choice but to be a True Sikh and fight his corner after all other means of negotiation failed), but I believe strongly that the time will come when Raj karega Khalsa - it will be at the right time for us and then the whole duniya will be Khalistan!

Can we just end the topic - as SS Admin said, the debate is never ending and they have just voiced their personal opinion. The offical line has been stated from the Akal Takht - its up to you, eat it, or don't eat it. Therefore never judge a person on this issue.

The guy on the picture looks like a blatant pi*s-taker. Obviously someone with lots of money in bollywood is determined to undermine the ank that a sardar once held sway in India. Reminds me of watching Mission Kasmir in the cinema near Balmiki chowk Jalandhar. The scene where the sardar army man pee'd himself for fear of the land-mine and Sanjay Dutt saving the day was humiliating. It really annoyed the audience that a Singh was being portrayed in this way and angry words were said. Do not support the bollywood industry - just watch the pirated copies!!! We need a Singh producer in bollywood to kick the industry's a*s.

Panthic ekta. True brotherhood. One's personal aim should be to take Amrit. Quality (comprehensible) preaching of our glorious history and Gurbani in gurudware.

At 24 weeks survival outside of the womb is only viable with intensive, modern neonatal support and even then, there may be long term perinatal consequences whereby the chances of the baby surviving into adulthood are very slim. Sikhi does not comment about abortion specifically, but it does have a lot to say about female infantoecide - a disgusting and abhorrant practice that is still a problem amongst many Punjabis today. I would go along with the ethical stance that abortion is permitted if serious mental or physical harm to the mother or unborn child was the reasoning and that medical associations decide the cut off.

Who is Baba Joginder Singh? Background, support base etc... Can anyone tell us more about him? It is such a loss that such a chardhikala organisation looks as if it being split.

G.Kaur, I am very pleased that your scalp has been satisfactorily sorted out. As a doctor, there are a couple of points I'd like to mention in relation to what I have read. Firstly dandruff and traction alopecia are common in patients with tight kes. This is multifactorial, and can only be commented upon on individual basis. Follow your primary care physicians advice and set a time-line for treatment review with the idea that if the suggested treatment has failed, to move onto something else, including referral if that is what's required. Try not to see different doctors (without the referral from your own doctor), as your continuity of treatment will suffer and this often results in dead-ends and patient dissatisfaction. For those that need to moisturise the scalp, use non-perfumed, non-detergent based emolliants such a Aqueous Cream, massaged into the scalp and then washed out. Lastly please be careful about private clinics that do not use fully registered medical practiotioners. I am glad that the plant extracts worked and that time too may have played a role (?), after all resolution and patient satisfaction is the most desired outcome. But I am very concerned about the dietry reccommendations. A lot of places will claim that you should avoid x,y and z. Food intolerance is a serious diagnosis and has a profound affect upon what you can eat, potentially knocking out healthy options and restricting your diet for no reason. It is in reality a rare condition. Please ask the clinic to provide you with the evidence of their reccommendations, and ask your own doctor if he could review this or recommend someone else who can (this service is a non-NHS service and you are likely to be charged for it). All the best,

Running is free and requires little equipment. Novices will see results in 2 weeks. This guy has obviously got the running bug hardcore (all should not expect results like his - he is exceptional and that is why his example is being used for promotion) and well done for him. When I talk to people about this exercise, one of the main barriers is not a lack of time or motivation (significant in themselves), but the lack of a decent environment. Some people live in very deprived neighbourhoods and running alone is just not safe or pleasant. But outdoor running for those that want to give it a go is highly reccommended. A friend of mine did a study that showed that outdoor running is 20% harder when accounting for wind resistance and surface/contour bias, compared to a running machine. This is because most people, despite best efforts, do not realise that the belt is taking away some of the effort - even for that split second when you may be in contact with it - if you are keeping speed (difficult as most do a catch-up rhythm) then you will let the machine take some effort. The only way to overcome that is to outrun the pace of the belt - but then you'd have to up the speed or run off the machine into the display!

Why...why did you have to post this!!!!!!!! I am reaching for the Lurpak as I write! ps Is Anker butter better - I'm going to buy a pack tommorow to put on my rotis!

Cool it guys - Rimmel is probably stressed because its exams season - but whatever the reason please respect the fact when someone wants to be left alone. Heck - I know that this forum can be addictive once you start posting! Rimmel - I accept your point about Malkit Singh. Soho Rd Gurudwara - Chauvanism has no place in Sikhi!!! Women should be allowed to participate on an equal footing with men - Guru Maharaj ka Tabiah, Seva, Panj, and Kirtan!

Thanks veerji, The Bhais would never really leave our gurudwara until their turn to rotate is up, they were just amazed that (I think ours is their first UK duty) there exists such a gurudwara in the UK. They talk about akharas attached to gurudware in Punjab, where warriors are trained - not just in gatka, but also in pehlwani and horsemanship (riding, tent pegging etc), but did not think that there was any such thing in the UK ie where the physical aspect of warrior-saint was encouraged. To the other veerji, The other doctor in question - is he not that famous cardiologist (Muaff karo I forgot his name) in London who has been honoured by the Royal Collage of Physicians and is (I think) President of the Sikh Federation. I know that he has done or is doing research based specifically around the subject of Asians and obesity in the UK.

I will get them some equipment as soon as my finances look more rosy! I am certain that they will accept - its just that they did not want to pay for it themselves. I've heard of a gurudwara down south in London that has a whole gym - the Bhais almost packed their bags and asked me to locate exactly where it is!!! It must be Slough or Southall I guess...

Can we please get back to bhangra??? Just to reassure all: 1. I never drink and drive. 2. My drinking has been cut down since I started reading more gurbani and trying to do regular patths. 3. My ultimate aim is to one day turn Gursikh - not ready for this yet. Now lets get back to bhangra and Sikhi or has the topic become stale? No one (I think) has commented on an issue that we had about 10y ago in the UK when various bhangra artists (Malkit Singh, Sardara S Gill...) petitioned Soho Rd Gurudwara to allow them to perform Kirtan. They were previously denied this on the basis that they were bhangra artists. Then a representative (?secretary) of the gurudwara came on BBC Asian network on Vaisakhi and promised to consider their request. I believe that they were turned down. What upsets these guys is that back in the dark ages (1970s) many started of as doing Ragi sessions at their local gurudwaras and some of you I am sure, have records or your parents may have records which features people like Sardara, Kulwant and Tarlochan doing kirtan. By the early 80s the gurudwaras got regular ragi supplies from Punjab and their services were no longer required. So do you need to be Gursikh to take part in delivering kirtan (singing or instrumental) in a gurudwara?

Any disrespect to Maharaj GGS is a grief wound to the Sikh who hears of it. Today I have read that the Cathedral in my city has had a wall vandalised with slogans of swastikas and the words 'Satan' sprayed onto it. It is just shear vandalism and disrespect for divine sanctity to anyone who holds an iota of religious faith in their hearts, whether it be unto our religion, their religion etc.

I am honest and am not going to be a hypocrit - I want to give my view, but then (probably as a sort of self confession maybe?) I will let others know exactly where I'm coming from. R Deep Singh, I apologise if I have caused offence to you as this was sincerely not my intention.

Diet and exercise is common sense. A lot of Asians are very hard working in the West and grab high calorie food in between their working day and exercise does not even come into the equation. When I was a med student (those were the days...alas how I wasted all that free time!) a diabetologist (Dr Vinod Patel - now a Prof I think) who has an interest in Asian health behaviour, once asked, "why do Asians get diabetes?" We were all silent and rather stunned at the question, trying to come up with a quick academic reply... ..."Because they don't have dogs." A generalisation, but point made. Not all frozen food is bad - I find frozen veg very convenient (especially when one has kids to fit into a hectic lifestyle) eg peas, but ideally the fresher the better. I do fall for the occassional fish 'n chips with pizza and probably eat too much red meat (before anyone starts, I have an excuse - I live in the jungle and cannot get to Sainsburys because the Mughals are about!!! But occassionally I raid the local chippee!!!). ps. The only reason why I had the gall to suggest such a thing to the local gurudwara committee is because my father-in-law sits on the committee.